IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Have you ever regretted ABXing?, How has it changed your feelings about your stuff?
BearcatSandor
post Nov 3 2010, 21:30
Post #1





Group: Members
Posts: 149
Joined: 18-May 10
From: Montana, USA
Member No.: 80732



By "stuff" i mean equipment and music?

Have you ever ABXed something and found yourself not enjoying it as much as you did now that you know it's not all you thought it to be? Has the opposite ever happened to you?

I don't have the set up to ABX sound files yet (i'm a Linux user and both options seem to be dead). After participating in this forum for only a few days and reading of others experiences with 24-bit vs 16-bit music i'm now looking at my 24-bit collection of DVD-As, SACDs and 24-bit Studio Master downloads and thinking "..Damn it?" with a bit of confusion. I don't feel as secure with them anymore. I thought i had the 'best' sound i could get which is always a goal for folks like me.

Conversely, i might enjoy my redbook CDs more now as i won't be thinking "well they aren't 24-bit :"( " and i might not be hearing deficits that aren't really there.

I'm not sure how to feel about that.

I'm sure i'm not the only one here who's gone though this. Some of you started out as 'audiofools' too, right? How did you deal with this?

In a sense i'm kinda feeling "No, i don't want to look up ABX testing for loudspeakers. I waited 10 years for just the right pair to come to me and i really don't want to know that my $2.5k Anthony Gallo Acoustic Reference 3.1s are 'the same' as a pair of BestBuy specials." That's a bit of an exaggeration given how different speakers can be ...at least i think it is.

I'm uncertain. Honestly, i think i'm changing quickly and looking for support.

So how did you deal when the ABXing didn't work out how how you hoped it might?

Thanks

edit: Brought it back on-topic a bit.

This post has been edited by BearcatSandor: Nov 3 2010, 21:59


--------------------
Music lover and recovering high end audiophile
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
Onebeforezod
post Nov 25 2010, 02:36
Post #2





Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 25-November 10
Member No.: 85998



The weird thing for me was that I really could tell the difference between 24 bit and 16 bit when I did ABX testing....48khz and 96khz however? Not so much. Got about 40%.

Mp3s vs lossless though is night and day.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
greynol
post Nov 25 2010, 02:42
Post #3





Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 10000
Joined: 1-April 04
From: San Francisco
Member No.: 13167



QUOTE (Onebeforezod @ Nov 24 2010, 17:36) *
Got about 40%

40% is the result one would expect from randomly choosing (read: guessing).

QUOTE (Onebeforezod @ Nov 24 2010, 17:36) *
difference between 24 bit and 16 bit
[...]
Mp3s vs lossless though is night and day.

ABX log and samples for these, please.

This post has been edited by greynol: Nov 25 2010, 02:44


--------------------
I should publish a list of forum idiots.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Onebeforezod
post Nov 26 2010, 10:37
Post #4





Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 25-November 10
Member No.: 85998



QUOTE (greynol @ Nov 24 2010, 17:42) *
QUOTE (Onebeforezod @ Nov 24 2010, 17:36) *
Got about 40%

40% is the result one would expect from randomly choosing (read: guessing).

QUOTE (Onebeforezod @ Nov 24 2010, 17:36) *
difference between 24 bit and 16 bit
[...]
Mp3s vs lossless though is night and day.

ABX log and samples for these, please.



QUOTE (analog scott @ Nov 25 2010, 11:55) *
QUOTE (greynol @ Nov 25 2010, 03:42) *
QUOTE (Onebeforezod @ Nov 24 2010, 17:36) *
Got about 40%

40% is the result one would expect from randomly choosing (read: guessing).

QUOTE (Onebeforezod @ Nov 24 2010, 17:36) *
difference between 24 bit and 16 bit
[...]
Mp3s vs lossless though is night and day.

ABX log and samples for these, please.



Depends on the number of trials. 40% after a certain number of trials is not what one would expect from random choosing and is evidence of something going on actually. It's weird but a statistically significant margin of wrong answers would point to something other than chance at work.



CODE
foo_abx 1.3.4 report
foobar2000 v1.0.1
2010/11/11 02:15:23

File A: G:\Music\Audioslave\Audioslave\02 Show Me How to Live.m4a
File B: G:\Music\Audioslave\Audioslave\02 Show Me How to Live.wav

02:15:23 : Test started.
02:15:39 : 01/01 50.0%
02:16:05 : 02/02 25.0%
02:16:41 : 03/03 12.5%
02:17:36 : 04/04 6.3%
02:17:55 : 05/05 3.1%
02:18:21 : 06/06 1.6%
02:18:40 : 07/07 0.8%
02:19:12 : 08/08 0.4%
02:19:39 : 09/09 0.2%
02:20:23 : 10/10 0.1%
02:20:39 : 10/11 0.6%
02:20:41 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 10/11 (0.6%)


This was 16-bit vs 24 bit. Same 24 bit source file.

I had a test from long ago with mp3s vs lossless, but I don't think I saved the log. (results were similar) So I did another, the old one I did with 128kbs mp3 conversions, so I decided to do this new one with 320s, and I found that I really couldn't tell the difference. LAME ain't bad at all. biggrin.gif I retract my statement of "night and day". But I'll have to retry the 128s again.

CODE
foo_abx 1.3.4 report
foobar2000 v1.0.1
2010/11/26 01:25:20

File A: G:\Music\Other\Joshua Redman\Freedom In The Groove\01 Hide And Seek.m4a
File B: G:\Music\Other\Joshua Redman\Freedom In The Groove\01 Hide And Seek.mp3

01:25:20 : Test started.
01:25:32 : 00/01 100.0%
01:25:38 : 00/02 100.0%
01:25:49 : 00/03 100.0%
01:25:55 : 01/04 93.8%
01:26:41 : 01/05 96.9%
01:27:31 : 02/06 89.1%
01:27:58 : 02/07 93.8%
01:28:46 : 03/08 85.5%
01:29:15 : 04/09 74.6%
01:30:08 : 04/10 82.8%
01:30:34 : 05/11 72.6%
01:30:48 : 06/12 61.3%
01:31:11 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 6/12 (61.3%)



But i did save the 48 vs 96 one...I think you misunderstood me, I said I really couldn't hear the difference here.

CODE
foo_abx 1.3.4 report
foobar2000 v1.0.1
2010/11/11 02:24:26

File A: G:\Music\24\Reiner - Strauss, Also Sprach Zarathustra, 1962 (24bit-96KHz vinyl)\1. R.Strauss; Also Sprach Zarathustra, Op.30 - Part 1.flac
File B: G:\Music\24\Reiner - Strauss, Also Sprach Zarathustra, 1962 (24bit-96KHz vinyl)\1. R.Strauss; Also Sprach Zarathustra, Op.30 - Part 1.wav

02:24:26 : Test started.
02:25:37 : 01/01 50.0%
02:27:39 : 01/02 75.0%
02:28:26 : 02/03 50.0%
02:29:10 : 03/04 31.3%
02:20:11 : 03/05 50.0%
02:21:06 : 04/06 34.4%
02:22:51 : 04/07 50.0%
02:24:02 : 04/08 63.7%
02:25:19 : 05/09 50.0%
02:26:52 : 05/10 62.3%
02:27:41 : 05/11 72.6%
02:28:49 : 05/12 80.6%
02:28:58 : 05/13 86.7%
02:29:48 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 5/13 (86.7%)


To sum it up, I was saying that 24 bit vs 16 is noticeable for me, but I have been humbled as far as mp3s go. :/
I seem to be in the minority when it comes to 24bit audio, and I don't know why. I can definitely hear the difference, particularly in horn parts, drums. Guitar depending on the distortion, but it really isn't the biggest deal. I listen to a lot of classical music, and it helps with making the different parts sound separated and clear, this I am sure of. What do you guys think?

P.S- I didn't have anyone with me for any ABX test. Sorry for the late reply! Turkey Day and all...)
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- BearcatSandor   Have you ever regretted ABXing?   Nov 3 2010, 21:30
- - dv1989   QUOTE (BearcatSandor @ Nov 3 2010, 20:30)...   Nov 3 2010, 21:39
|- - BearcatSandor   QUOTE (dv1989 @ Nov 3 2010, 14:39) At the...   Nov 3 2010, 21:45
|- - greynol   QUOTE (BearcatSandor @ Nov 3 2010, 13:45)...   Nov 3 2010, 22:04
|- - dv1989   QUOTE (BearcatSandor @ Nov 3 2010, 20:45)...   Nov 3 2010, 22:17
- - greynol   If it's any consolation, the most common advic...   Nov 3 2010, 21:48
- - mixminus1   Oh, I don't think you should regret buying the...   Nov 3 2010, 22:20
|- - BearcatSandor   QUOTE (mixminus1 @ Nov 3 2010, 15:20) Oh,...   Nov 3 2010, 22:32
||- - mixminus1   QUOTE (BearcatSandor @ Nov 3 2010, 14:32)...   Nov 3 2010, 22:48
|- - Northpack   QUOTE (mixminus1 @ Nov 3 2010, 22:20) I...   Nov 3 2010, 22:39
- - greynol   That's funny, I was thinking the opposite: th...   Nov 3 2010, 22:51
|- - mixminus1   Oh, then you'd positively LOVE these. >:D ...   Nov 3 2010, 23:14
- - mixminus1   ...and now attempting to at least get myself back ...   Nov 3 2010, 23:45
- - Roseval   QUOTE (BearcatSandor @ Nov 3 2010, 22:30)...   Nov 4 2010, 00:22
|- - odigg   I think I had two simultaneous feelings after I st...   Nov 4 2010, 01:29
- - Josh358   QUOTE (BearcatSandor @ Nov 3 2010, 15:30)...   Nov 4 2010, 19:23
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Josh358 @ Nov 4 2010, 11:23) An ex...   Nov 4 2010, 20:54
||- - Josh358   QUOTE (greynol @ Nov 4 2010, 14:54) QUOTE...   Nov 5 2010, 00:18
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Josh358 @ Nov 5 2010, 00:18) a sys...   Nov 5 2010, 01:08
||- - Josh358   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Nov 4 2010, 19:08) Tha...   Nov 5 2010, 01:46
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Josh358 @ Nov 5 2010, 01:46) I...   Nov 5 2010, 08:44
||- - Josh358   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Nov 5 2010, 02:44) ......   Nov 5 2010, 17:38
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (Josh358 @ Nov 4 2010, 19:23) Thoug...   Nov 23 2010, 14:40
- - hlloyge   Personally, my aac's are now around 160 kbit V...   Nov 4 2010, 21:54
- - greynol   While that may be, this forum requires different c...   Nov 5 2010, 00:41
|- - Josh358   QUOTE (greynol @ Nov 4 2010, 18:41) While...   Nov 5 2010, 01:19
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Josh358 @ Nov 4 2010, 20:19) Surpr...   Nov 5 2010, 17:50
|- - Josh358   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 5 2010, 11...   Nov 5 2010, 22:46
||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Josh358 @ Nov 5 2010, 16:46) QUOTE...   Nov 8 2010, 14:00
||- - Josh358   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 8 2010, 08...   Nov 8 2010, 17:28
|||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Josh358 @ Nov 8 2010, 11:28) QUOTE...   Nov 8 2010, 20:11
|||- - Josh358   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 8 2010, 14...   Nov 9 2010, 01:05
|||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Josh358 @ Nov 8 2010, 19:05) I ass...   Nov 9 2010, 13:48
|||- - Josh358   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 9 2010, 07...   Nov 9 2010, 23:52
|||- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (Josh358 @ Nov 9 2010, 17:52) Inter...   Nov 10 2010, 07:27
||||- - Josh358   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Nov 10 2010, 01:27) ...   Nov 10 2010, 17:20
||||- - BearcatSandor   QUOTE (Josh358 @ Nov 10 2010, 09:20) QUOT...   Nov 10 2010, 18:00
||||- - Josh358   QUOTE (BearcatSandor @ Nov 10 2010, 12:00...   Nov 10 2010, 18:54
|||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Josh358 @ Nov 9 2010, 17:52) Of co...   Nov 10 2010, 14:19
|||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Josh358 @ Nov 9 2010, 17:52) Inter...   Nov 10 2010, 15:00
|||- - Josh358   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 10 2010, 09...   Nov 10 2010, 18:49
||- - krabapple   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 8 2010, 08...   Nov 17 2010, 18:19
|- - krabapple   QUOTE I see the Fielder paper as being a justifica...   Nov 17 2010, 18:15
- - DigitalMan   Interesting OP Did ABX after ripping to LAME 256kb...   Nov 5 2010, 02:06
- - Canar   I have never regretted ABXing. Double-blind testin...   Nov 5 2010, 02:20
- - BearcatSandor   I appreciate all of these posts. I'm still de-...   Nov 5 2010, 03:00
|- - Josh358   QUOTE (BearcatSandor @ Nov 4 2010, 21:00)...   Nov 5 2010, 03:51
|- - greynol   QUOTE (BearcatSandor @ Nov 4 2010, 19:00)...   Nov 5 2010, 04:23
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (BearcatSandor @ Nov 4 2010, 21:00)...   Nov 5 2010, 07:13
||- - knutinh   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Nov 5 2010, 07:13) I...   Nov 5 2010, 08:20
||- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (knutinh @ Nov 5 2010, 02:20) QUOTE...   Nov 6 2010, 06:29
||- - dv1989   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Nov 6 2010, 05:29) I...   Nov 6 2010, 11:10
||- - googlebot   QUOTE (dv1989 @ Nov 6 2010, 12:10) What y...   Nov 6 2010, 11:39
|- - dv1989   QUOTE (BearcatSandor @ Nov 5 2010, 02:00)...   Nov 5 2010, 23:53
- - greynol   No worries. I think the fear that transcoding is ...   Nov 5 2010, 07:42
|- - Josh358   QUOTE (greynol @ Nov 5 2010, 01:42) No wo...   Nov 5 2010, 17:32
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Josh358 @ Nov 5 2010, 09:32) Has a...   Nov 5 2010, 18:34
|- - Josh358   QUOTE (greynol @ Nov 5 2010, 12:34) QUOTE...   Nov 5 2010, 22:00
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Josh358 @ Nov 5 2010, 14:00) Which...   Nov 6 2010, 21:07
|- - Josh358   QUOTE (greynol @ Nov 6 2010, 15:07) QUOTE...   Nov 6 2010, 23:50
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Josh358 @ Nov 6 2010, 17:50) Elect...   Nov 8 2010, 14:17
|- - Josh358   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 8 2010, 08...   Nov 8 2010, 19:32
- - simonh   I wonder whether lossy will formats distributed ov...   Nov 5 2010, 08:52
- - Takla   The only damage I've caused by abx testing has...   Nov 5 2010, 16:07
- - DigitalMan   After a humbling fail on ABX with MP3 at 192kbp/s ...   Nov 6 2010, 05:33
- - dv1989   Yeah, I may have overgeneralised. I think I meant...   Nov 6 2010, 11:56
- - Meeko   Never regretted learning that my hearing isn't...   Nov 11 2010, 15:18
- - Onebeforezod   The weird thing for me was that I really could tel...   Nov 25 2010, 02:36
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Onebeforezod @ Nov 24 2010, 17:36)...   Nov 25 2010, 02:42
|- - Onebeforezod   QUOTE (greynol @ Nov 24 2010, 17:42) QUOT...   Nov 26 2010, 10:37
- - analog scott   QUOTE (greynol @ Nov 25 2010, 03:42) QUOT...   Nov 25 2010, 20:55
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (analog scott @ Nov 25 2010, 14:55)...   Nov 25 2010, 22:38
- - greynol   Your ABX report saying you can tell the difference...   Nov 27 2010, 03:22
|- - mjb2006   QUOTE (greynol @ Nov 26 2010, 19:22) Your...   Nov 29 2010, 22:53
- - Wombat   QUOTE (greynol @ Nov 27 2010, 04:22) Your...   Nov 27 2010, 03:29
- - BearcatSandor   QUOTE (Wombat @ Nov 26 2010, 19:29) QUOTE...   Nov 29 2010, 21:50


Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th August 2014 - 13:21