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Some New Evidence that Generation Y May Prefer Accurate Sound
solive
post Jun 19 2010, 04:18
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I posted a new blog posting that summarizes some recent experimental evidence where I tested a group of teenagers' preferences in loudspeakers and MP3 versus CD music formats. This is just the beginning of a more thorough study, so the results are very preliminary. Still I thought it would be interesting to get some feedback.

I could find no evidence that these high school students preferred the "sizzling sounds of MP3" over higher quality lossless formats, as reported by Jonathan Berger. I also found they preferred the most accurate, neutral loudspeakers when given the opportunity to hear and compare them with something less accurate and neutral.

These results are not too surprising to me, but the media seems to have been reporting a different story over the past year.


Cheers
Sean
Audio Musings


--------------------
Sean Olive
[url="http://seanolive.com"]Audio Musings[/url]
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analog scott
post Jun 24 2010, 13:33
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QUOTE (googlebot @ Jun 24 2010, 11:00) *
QUOTE (analog scott @ Jun 24 2010, 09:41) *
How is it that my experience as an owner of electrostatic speakers are "assumptions" and your experience as someone who has not had that experience...


You can have 100 years of experience and still count as noise in a scientific sense, if you refuse to go any further than holistic, singular experience comparisons. Objectivity and repeatability are the driving forces behind scientific success. That requires certain amounts of abstraction. You don't seem to be willing to follow that path. Your arguments are of the same type over and over again and all lead into the same direction: one cannot say anything until you have basically my setup (or that of another ML expert). Those then also cannot present any criteria, but infer from ears and experience. You could go over to the Stereophile forum, where people hug each other for experiences like this, but HA might be the wrong place. Nailing down significants without resentments against abstraction rather seems to be the culture here.



You cite your experience which clearly has no advantage over my experience and is pretty clearly less inofrmed than my experience and then you call my experiences assumptions while using your experience as an objective reference. That is simply a double standard and a coupling of two logical fallacies. You appeal to the authority of your own experience and then use a classic logical fallacy of movement of the goal posts against my experience by invoking "science" when attacking the validity of my experience. Are you seriously waving the science flag here? We were talking about whether or not customers were duly informed about the nature of the product! How can you possibly wave the science flag? Your "experience" with how well informed the buying decisions of electrostatic speaker owners is "scientific?"I have spoken of my personal experience in this regard. *I* was duly informed as a customer. I have yet to run across *any* owner of electrostatic speakers that have expressed any problems about having been duly informed and/or educated on the nature of the sweet spot before they bought their speakers. I also clearly noted that my experience was in no way a universal indicator on how every dealer deals with every customer. I also have asserted that anyone (unless they are hearing impared) can and should recognize this particular aspect of any electrostatic speaker that exhibits it with the simplest of auditions. It is my position that for one to be unaware of the sweet spot issues with a given pair of electrostatic speakers one would have had to not do any kind of meaningful audition.

You have some "science" on the matter to offer up that refutes my experiences or my assertions?

This post has been edited by analog scott: Jun 24 2010, 13:35
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Arnold B. Kruege...
post Jun 24 2010, 19:09
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QUOTE (analog scott @ Jun 24 2010, 08:33) *
You cite your experience which clearly has no advantage over my experience


Scott, that your experience is more or less advantageous than someone elses experiences is not a given.


You started this subtread with the following:

QUOTE
How is it that my experience as an owner of electrostatic speakers are "assumptions" and your experience as someone who has not had that experience...is "experience?"


Let me address that question by recalling that you recently posted the contents of your system here, and if memory serves, your system included an incredible number of items that are well-known to be audio jewelry - audio components that cannot possibly enchance sound quality. Please correct me if I misremembered that.

From that information Scott, we must conclude that very many of your so-called experiences with audio components are highly likely to be based on false assumptions and not based on actual reliably-heard expereinces.

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Posts in this topic
- solive   Some New Evidence that Generation Y May Prefer Accurate Sound   Jun 19 2010, 04:18
- - odigg   QUOTE (solive @ Jun 18 2010, 23:18) These...   Jun 19 2010, 05:39
|- - solive   QUOTE (odigg @ Jun 18 2010, 21:39) QUOTE ...   Jun 19 2010, 05:56
|- - odigg   Thanks for the answers and the slideshow. I'm...   Jun 19 2010, 06:22
||- - Notat   QUOTE (odigg @ Jun 18 2010, 23:22) I...   Jun 19 2010, 14:54
||- - odigg   QUOTE (Notat @ Jun 19 2010, 09:54) This i...   Jun 19 2010, 15:06
|- - dv1989   Interesting, thanks for posting. I wonder what wo...   Jun 19 2010, 16:21
|- - solive   QUOTE (dv1989 @ Jun 19 2010, 08:21) Inter...   Jun 19 2010, 18:06
- - Notat   Nice work Sean. You have a fun job and I'll be...   Jun 19 2010, 14:40
|- - solive   QUOTE (Notat @ Jun 19 2010, 06:40) Nice w...   Jun 19 2010, 20:06
- - dv1989   I'm sure you'd become a legend here, and i...   Jun 19 2010, 18:08
|- - solive   QUOTE (dv1989 @ Jun 19 2010, 10:08) I...   Jun 19 2010, 20:22
- - dv1989   Heh, and they're already questioning your meth...   Jun 19 2010, 22:51
|- - solive   QUOTE (dv1989 @ Jun 19 2010, 14:51) Heh, ...   Jun 20 2010, 00:20
- - dv1989   I'd think so, but in any case I don't foll...   Jun 20 2010, 00:53
|- - solive   QUOTE (dv1989 @ Jun 19 2010, 16:53) I...   Jun 20 2010, 03:54
|- - Axon   Excellent post but I have two small nitpicks. QU...   Jun 20 2010, 07:42
|- - aclo   QUOTE (Axon @ Jun 20 2010, 08:42) Also, a...   Jun 21 2010, 19:07
- - cyberdux   Sean, what a fascinating job you have. I think I m...   Jun 20 2010, 01:46
|- - solive   QUOTE (cyberdux @ Jun 19 2010, 17:46) Sea...   Jun 20 2010, 04:04
|- - odigg   QUOTE (cyberdux @ Jun 19 2010, 20:46) The...   Jun 20 2010, 07:58
|- - cyberdux   "Many audiophiles seem to be men and just as ...   Jun 20 2010, 08:37
|- - odigg   QUOTE (cyberdux @ Jun 20 2010, 03:37) To ...   Jun 20 2010, 09:02
- - dhromed   QUOTE (cyberdux @ Jun 20 2010, 02:46) Hav...   Jun 20 2010, 13:29
|- - Cubist Castle   QUOTE (dhromed @ Jun 20 2010, 13:29) QUOT...   Jun 23 2010, 11:29
- - googlebot   Please don't say "Generation Y". It...   Jun 20 2010, 13:44
- - ajinfla   I have some doubts about concluding that because a...   Jun 21 2010, 03:56
- - Notat   Multichannel vs. mono was explored in separate res...   Jun 21 2010, 05:27
|- - ajinfla   QUOTE (Notat @ Jun 21 2010, 00:27) Multic...   Jun 21 2010, 06:32
- - Notat   You probably should let Sean straighten you out on...   Jun 21 2010, 15:51
|- - Kees de Visser   QUOTE (Notat @ Jun 21 2010, 16:51) The co...   Jun 21 2010, 16:21
|- - solive   QUOTE (Kees de Visser @ Jun 21 2010, 08:2...   Jun 21 2010, 21:18
- - mixminus1   While I understand the rationale for using CBR 128...   Jun 21 2010, 21:13
|- - solive   QUOTE (mixminus1 @ Jun 21 2010, 13:13) Wh...   Jun 21 2010, 21:44
- - analog scott   QUOTE (solive @ Jun 20 2010, 00:20) QUOTE...   Jun 23 2010, 02:16
- - analog scott   QUOTE (solive @ Jun 22 2010, 16:34) So yo...   Jun 23 2010, 02:45
|- - odigg   QUOTE (analog scott @ Jun 22 2010, 21:45)...   Jun 23 2010, 04:58
||- - ajinfla   QUOTE (odigg @ Jun 22 2010, 23:58) I...   Jun 23 2010, 05:54
|||- - odigg   QUOTE (ajinfla @ Jun 23 2010, 00:54) Did ...   Jun 23 2010, 06:59
|||- - ajinfla   QUOTE (odigg @ Jun 23 2010, 01:59) Believ...   Jun 23 2010, 07:23
||||- - solive   QUOTE (ajinfla @ Jun 22 2010, 23:23) QUOT...   Jun 23 2010, 08:28
||||- - ajinfla   QUOTE (solive @ Jun 23 2010, 03:28) What ...   Jun 23 2010, 08:44
||||- - solive   QUOTE (ajinfla @ Jun 23 2010, 00:44) Q...   Jun 23 2010, 09:24
||||- - ajinfla   QUOTE (solive @ Jun 23 2010, 04:24) We we...   Jun 24 2010, 02:39
|||- - solive   QUOTE (odigg @ Jun 22 2010, 22:59) QUOTE ...   Jun 23 2010, 07:34
||- - solive   QUOTE (odigg @ Jun 22 2010, 20:58) QUOTE ...   Jun 23 2010, 07:07
||- - odigg   QUOTE (solive @ Jun 23 2010, 02:07) Odigg...   Jun 24 2010, 04:06
|- - solive   QUOTE (analog scott @ Jun 22 2010, 18:45)...   Jun 23 2010, 06:42
|- - ajinfla   QUOTE (solive @ Jun 23 2010, 01:42) I wil...   Jun 23 2010, 07:15
- - analog scott   QUOTE (odigg @ Jun 23 2010, 05:58) QUOTE ...   Jun 23 2010, 07:40
- - analog scott   QUOTE (solive @ Jun 23 2010, 07:42) QUOTE...   Jun 23 2010, 08:19
|- - solive   QUOTE (analog scott @ Jun 23 2010, 00:19)...   Jun 23 2010, 09:55
- - analog scott   QUOTE (solive @ Jun 23 2010, 08:34) QUOTE...   Jun 23 2010, 08:26
|- - ajinfla   Scott, just FYI, it's "Sweet" spot. ...   Jun 23 2010, 08:29
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (analog scott @ Jun 23 2010, 03:26)...   Jun 23 2010, 12:10
- - analog scott   QUOTE (solive @ Jun 23 2010, 09:24) Stere...   Jun 23 2010, 10:22
- - analog scott   QUOTE (solive @ Jun 23 2010, 09:55) QUOTE...   Jun 23 2010, 10:51
|- - googlebot   I still don't get the argument. I understand, ...   Jun 23 2010, 11:07
- - analog scott   QUOTE (googlebot @ Jun 23 2010, 11:07) I ...   Jun 23 2010, 11:18
- - analog scott   QUOTE (MichaelW @ Jun 23 2010, 12:48) QUO...   Jun 23 2010, 12:07
|- - MichaelW   QUOTE (analog scott @ Jun 23 2010, 23:07)...   Jun 23 2010, 12:27
- - analog scott   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jun 23 2010, 13...   Jun 23 2010, 12:23
- - analog scott   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jun 23 2010, 13...   Jun 23 2010, 12:32
- - analog scott   QUOTE (MichaelW @ Jun 23 2010, 13:27) QUO...   Jun 23 2010, 12:40
- - Ed Seedhouse   To return, I hope, to the thread topic, it makes s...   Jun 23 2010, 17:58
|- - solive   QUOTE (Ed Seedhouse @ Jun 23 2010, 09:58)...   Jun 23 2010, 22:53
- - MichaelW   At about this point, I suspect Dr Olive is getting...   Jun 23 2010, 19:50
- - analog scott   QUOTE (odigg @ Jun 24 2010, 05:06) QUOTE ...   Jun 24 2010, 08:41
|- - googlebot   QUOTE (analog scott @ Jun 24 2010, 09:41)...   Jun 24 2010, 10:00
- - 2Bdecided   I bet the silent majority of readers with no parti...   Jun 24 2010, 11:44
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jun 24 2010, 06:44) I ...   Jun 24 2010, 12:43
||- - southisup   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jun 24 2010, 21...   Jun 25 2010, 07:51
|- - aclo   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jun 24 2010, 12:44) I...   Jun 24 2010, 15:29
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (aclo @ Jun 24 2010, 15:29) Well, I...   Jun 24 2010, 17:15
||- - aclo   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jun 24 2010, 18:15) QU...   Jun 24 2010, 17:32
|||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (aclo @ Jun 24 2010, 12:32) QUOTE (...   Jun 24 2010, 19:30
||||- - aclo   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jun 24 2010, 20...   Jun 24 2010, 20:19
||||- - Notat   QUOTE (aclo @ Jun 24 2010, 13:19) Speaker...   Jun 24 2010, 23:58
||||- - aclo   QUOTE (Notat @ Jun 25 2010, 00:58) QUOTE ...   Jun 25 2010, 00:32
|||- - aclo   QUOTE (aclo @ Jun 24 2010, 18:32) QUOTE (...   Jun 24 2010, 20:15
||- - knutinh   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jun 24 2010, 18:15) Ho...   Jun 24 2010, 20:10
|- - Notat   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jun 24 2010, 04:44) I ...   Jun 24 2010, 15:49
- - analog scott   QUOTE (googlebot @ Jun 24 2010, 11:00) QU...   Jun 24 2010, 13:33
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (analog scott @ Jun 24 2010, 08:33)...   Jun 24 2010, 19:09
- - analog scott   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jun 24 2010, 19...   Jun 25 2010, 03:16
|- - ajinfla   QUOTE (analog scott @ Jun 24 2010, 22:16)...   Jun 25 2010, 03:46
- - analog scott   QUOTE (ajinfla @ Jun 25 2010, 03:46) QUOT...   Jun 25 2010, 06:59
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