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Accuraterip ... AR but maybe damaged, A question for Spoon/Gregory/Greynol
sauvage78
post Apr 19 2010, 22:28
Post #1





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Hi, I just searched for doublons/clones in my flac collection with cuetools & CloneSpy (a clone finder software) & I happened to find something strange: a clone with an overall different checksum (so technically CloneSpy doesn't detect it as a clone) [Edit: My collection is only made CDImage.flac] but with all matching checksums against the accuraterip database & with a very high confidence for all tracks. So the data is obviously the same ... but there is a problem: the CRC for track 1 with or without silence at the end of the log doesn't match, hence the overall checksum difference & the non detection as an exact clone by CloneSpy. So my question is: am I right to interpret this situation as a non-detected scratch (or truncated audio) in one of the 2 rips ? I mean a scratch (or truncated audio) located in the 5 first frames of the rip which accuraterip might ignore ? (I know AR ignore the last 2940 samples but does it also ignore the first 2940 samples which might be the problematic part in my case). Is my interpretation of the problem right ? or is there another explanation ?

Here is a copy/paste zoom in the problematic part of the logs:
Log1: All tracks accurate
CODE
Track    [ CRC32  ]    [W/O NULL]    
--    [BB8A18D4]    [C665239A]    
01    [52E2E723]    [303E0CCB]

Log2: All tracks accurate same checksums for individual tracks in the beginning except at the end:
CODE
Track    [ CRC32  ]    [W/O NULL]  
--    [C96571CF]    [212E440F]    
01    [D84FE9DB]    [13FF4095]


Here are the full cuetools logs:
CODE
[Verification date: 19/04/2010 22:51:27]
[Disc ID: 0014baf9-00b63a6b-a20c650b]
Track    [ CRC    ] Status
01    [56227f15] (130/227) Accurately ripped
02    [1a28dd82] (129/226) Accurately ripped
03    [6116e989] (128/224) Accurately ripped
04    [1ee3eb35] (130/226) Accurately ripped
05    [9b0f8709] (129/226) Accurately ripped
06    [6731bd99] (129/224) Accurately ripped
07    [2127ab0e] (130/225) Accurately ripped
08    [d6d7a06d] (129/223) Accurately ripped
09    [0940c3c4] (129/223) Accurately ripped
10    [9f0066c1] (131/224) Accurately ripped
11    [b372f2be] (127/219) Accurately ripped
Offsetted by -669:
01    [24323cd0] (92/227) Accurately ripped
02    [ee621a53] (95/226) Accurately ripped
03    [085e2055] (94/224) Accurately ripped
04    [3887918a] (94/226) Accurately ripped
05    [527338a1] (95/226) Accurately ripped
06    [1326e7e5] (93/224) Accurately ripped
07    [5c9d3731] (90/225) Accurately ripped
08    [212cde25] (89/223) Accurately ripped
09    [55786f8a] (92/223) Accurately ripped
10    [d05af285] (88/224) Accurately ripped
11    [344ff140] (87/219) Accurately ripped
Offsetted by -664:
01    [c47bf19e] (02/227) Accurately ripped
02    [1f296cf7] (02/226) Accurately ripped
03    [e964ac04] (02/224) Accurately ripped
04    [1c74678b] (02/226) Accurately ripped
05    [447707e9] (02/226) Accurately ripped
06    [2daa732f] (02/224) Accurately ripped
07    [06726fee] (02/225) Accurately ripped
08    [855005de] (02/223) Accurately ripped
09    [84fdb1e5] (02/223) Accurately ripped
10    [e48a9fd2] (02/224) Accurately ripped
11    [a0d957ca] (02/219) Accurately ripped

Track    [ CRC32  ]    [W/O NULL]    
--    [BB8A18D4]    [C665239A]    
01    [52E2E723]    [303E0CCB]    
02    [3898BA23]    [EC67745A]    
03    [298AA727]    [B5195132]    
04    [E1B43F46]    [CFA333F1]    
05    [2B362BD5]    [BCA7E87C]    
06    [A7D2A800]    [54FD2C90]    
07    [9FB44339]    [6E321D61]    
08    [C256DF0E]    [A744BA17]    
09    [721A93ED]    [643A858C]    
10    [380C3FD2]    [8B338E6B]    
11    [9B821032]    [E0D42D60]


CODE
[Verification date: 19/04/2010 22:56:03]
[Disc ID: 0014baf9-00b63a6b-a20c650b]
Track    [ CRC    ] Status
01    [56227f15] (130/227) Accurately ripped
02    [1a28dd82] (129/226) Accurately ripped
03    [6116e989] (128/224) Accurately ripped
04    [1ee3eb35] (130/226) Accurately ripped
05    [9b0f8709] (129/226) Accurately ripped
06    [6731bd99] (129/224) Accurately ripped
07    [2127ab0e] (130/225) Accurately ripped
08    [d6d7a06d] (129/223) Accurately ripped
09    [0940c3c4] (129/223) Accurately ripped
10    [9f0066c1] (131/224) Accurately ripped
11    [b372f2be] (127/219) Accurately ripped
Offsetted by -669:
01    [24323cd0] (92/227) Accurately ripped
02    [ee621a53] (95/226) Accurately ripped
03    [085e2055] (94/224) Accurately ripped
04    [3887918a] (94/226) Accurately ripped
05    [527338a1] (95/226) Accurately ripped
06    [1326e7e5] (93/224) Accurately ripped
07    [5c9d3731] (90/225) Accurately ripped
08    [212cde25] (89/223) Accurately ripped
09    [55786f8a] (92/223) Accurately ripped
10    [d05af285] (88/224) Accurately ripped
11    [344ff140] (87/219) Accurately ripped
Offsetted by -664:
01    [c47bf19e] (02/227) Accurately ripped
02    [1f296cf7] (02/226) Accurately ripped
03    [e964ac04] (02/224) Accurately ripped
04    [1c74678b] (02/226) Accurately ripped
05    [447707e9] (02/226) Accurately ripped
06    [2daa732f] (02/224) Accurately ripped
07    [06726fee] (02/225) Accurately ripped
08    [855005de] (02/223) Accurately ripped
09    [84fdb1e5] (02/223) Accurately ripped
10    [e48a9fd2] (02/224) Accurately ripped
11    [a0d957ca] (02/219) Accurately ripped

Track    [ CRC32  ]    [W/O NULL]    
--    [C96571CF]    [212E440F]    
01    [D84FE9DB]    [13FF4095]    
02    [3898BA23]    [EC67745A]    
03    [298AA727]    [B5195132]    
04    [E1B43F46]    [CFA333F1]    
05    [2B362BD5]    [BCA7E87C]    
06    [A7D2A800]    [54FD2C90]    
07    [9FB44339]    [6E321D61]    
08    [C256DF0E]    [A744BA17]    
09    [721A93ED]    [643A858C]    
10    [380C3FD2]    [8B338E6B]    
11    [9B821032]    [E0D42D60]


Note:
The album is Pantera - 1992 - Vulgar Display Of Power original pressing
& I know that:
CODE
Track    [ CRC32  ]    [W/O NULL]    
--    [BB8A18D4]    [C665239A]    
01    [52E2E723]    [303E0CCB]

is the good checksum if one of the 2 is bad. (I compared my own rip with several 3rd party rips as I own the CD ... it's one of the best heavy metal album of all time)

So the question is not which one is the good rip but rather what is happening technically & why a rip which, at first look, is perfectly accurate rip is in fact maybe damaged.

I am worried because it was one of the very first doublon I found ... so it might not be such an exception ... I am scarred to search further now ...

Edit: By the way, we need an april update of the database Spoon smile.gif

This post has been edited by sauvage78: Apr 19 2010, 22:44


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sauvage78
post Apr 20 2010, 18:03
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I have re-splitted the 5 first frames with Audacity & re-encoded to Flac with F2K ... guess what ... now the flac MD5 doesn't match between the 2 splitting ... so as I am using a beta version of Audacity I guess it might be more buggy than I thought ... sorry ... if you know a better free tool for the job let me know ...

It cannot be the wrong part or a dithering problem IMHO, but I agree adding 1 frame to the database is not really worth it as it brings a lot of trouble for the small gain ... it's just sad that Spoon made the mistake of chosing 5 frames instead of 4 ... I guess he was conservative in case a future drive pops up with an offset bigger than 4 frames ... I'll have to live with that.

Edit: I'll try the last stable version of Audacity to see if I can get more reliable results in the splitting.

This post has been edited by sauvage78: Apr 20 2010, 18:12


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Posts in this topic
- sauvage78   Accuraterip ... AR but maybe damaged   Apr 19 2010, 22:28
- - frozenspeed   Would this be a case of someone submitting a damag...   Apr 19 2010, 22:43
- - greynol   You're right sauvage78, AR does not cover the ...   Apr 19 2010, 22:44
- - sauvage78   Thks for the hint Greynol, I splitted the first tr...   Apr 19 2010, 23:35
- - greynol   You should really inverse paste one onto the other...   Apr 20 2010, 01:46
- - sauvage78   I have uploaded the 5 first frames of the 2 rips (...   Apr 20 2010, 15:44
- - greynol   I have a feeling that you've either cut the wr...   Apr 20 2010, 17:41
- - sauvage78   I have re-splitted the 5 first frames with Audacit...   Apr 20 2010, 18:03
- - greynol   I don't find it sad at all, in fact I think 5 ...   Apr 20 2010, 18:11
- - krafty   Audacity always apply dithering for saved files, n...   Apr 20 2010, 19:16
- - sauvage78   krafty: Thks a lot for your insight. I'll get ...   Apr 20 2010, 19:50
- - greynol   Make sure to tell Audition not to dither or cross-...   Apr 20 2010, 19:53
- - Alex B   Sox can easily cut files sample accurately without...   Apr 20 2010, 19:56
- - Teknojnky   QUOTE (sauvage78 @ Apr 19 2010, 15:28) So...   Apr 20 2010, 20:21
- - greynol   Differences in the ignored areas are not always at...   Apr 20 2010, 20:23
- - Teknojnky   ok well, whether they are errors are not is irrele...   Apr 20 2010, 20:27
- - sauvage78   Thks Alex B I have used Sox to re-cut the samples...   Apr 21 2010, 10:51
- - greynol   The first 472 samples are null in the second file,...   Apr 21 2010, 17:38
- - sauvage78   Thx a lot Greynol ! I understand that it is no...   Apr 21 2010, 22:57
- - greynol   You're welcome, sauvage78, I'm happy to he...   Apr 21 2010, 23:24
- - sauvage78   Again, thks for trying to help. Sorry for the del...   Apr 23 2010, 05:38


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