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Compare for yourself: Vinyl vs. CD
ff123
post Apr 1 2003, 07:37
Post #1


ABC/HR developer, ff123.net admin


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Posts: 1396
Joined: 24-September 01
Member No.: 12



This is from a message I just posted to uk.rec.audio and rec.audio.opinion:

On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 22:53:58 GMT, Moi <zis_guy@NOxSPAMMxhotmail.com>
wrote:

>This one is from Peter Kater's "Gateway" ca. 1988 (Gaia/Polygram
>Records). This one may in fact exist on CD, so somebody may be able
>to check perceived speed stability and etc. against the CD. The song
>is from side 1, track 2 titled "Talk Back."
>
>This one was also most likely recorded to digital before pressing the
>LP, and I'm not responsible for any possible digital ugliness you may
>hear ;-).
>
>Wish I could post longer samples, but space and downloading time
>constraints prevent it. As again, this one is about 3.5MB in size,
>and requires the LPAC decoder, available here:
>
>http://www.nue.tu-berlin.de/wer/liebchen/lpac.html
>
>The sample itself can be downloaded here:

http://ff123.net/export/pksample.pac

I changed the link to point to my server to remove the bandwidth load
from Moi's site.

Moi described his setup in an earlier message: TD-160/M97xE/Technics
SU-C01.

I purchased the 1988 CD version of this album (< $10 used) and ripped
the same section as Moi's sample.

http://ff123.net/export/pksamplecd.pac

I time aligned it as best I could. The sample is about 34 seconds
long. The vinyl version takes about 60 msec longer to complete than
the CD version, so the speed accuracy of the turntable is about 0.2%
on the slow side if the CD can be considered the reference.

I applied -0.43 dB to the left channel of the CD version, and +0.26 dB
to the right channel. The volume was compared with the vinyl version
via average RMS. WavGain (which uses David Robinson's replaygain
algorithm) gives about the same answer as average RMS.

I applied a linear fadeout to about the last 4 seconds of the sample
to approximate what Moi had done with his sample.

I won't say what I hear just yet. If you think the difference is
sufficiently subtle to warrant the use of a double-blind tool, visit
one of the following sites:

http://pcabx.com/
http://ff123.net/abchr/abchr.html
http://www.kikeg.arrakis.es/winabx/winabx.zip

ff123

Edit: Oops, I think I posted this to the wrong forum

This post has been edited by ff123: Apr 1 2003, 07:41
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ff123
post Apr 2 2003, 15:40
Post #2


ABC/HR developer, ff123.net admin


Group: Developer (Donating)
Posts: 1396
Joined: 24-September 01
Member No.: 12



QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Apr 2 2003 - 01:10 AM)
P.S. Sometimes though the CD version of an old recording beats the LP. e.g. Frank Sinatra - Come Dance with Me - the CD isn't a great CD, but it's good, and the LP is terrible. This is quite rare though - usually the first release of a recording is the one which gets the most care, so LPs from the 1950s-1980s are often worth a listen.

I once borrowed Horowitz playing Rachmaninoff's 3rd piano concerto on vinyl from the library. The record was very thick (it was from 1951 and they used lots of material), but it was old and scratched -- just terrible condition. But it must have been the first pressing, because all the high frequencies were there, nonetheless.

I later bought one of those re-releases on LP because I liked that rendition so much, and was horrified by just how much loss of high frequencies there were in that version.

So I went to a record collectors store and bought an earlier pressing from the 1950's, but damned if it still wasn't bad.

The CD release of it wasn't too bad, except they applied that stupid pseudo-stereo stuff to it, and I still think the library record sounded the best, even with all the scratches! I am appalled to think of all the great performances sitting around on first-pressing records which I'll never hear.

ff123

This post has been edited by ff123: Apr 2 2003, 15:43
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Posts in this topic
- ff123   Compare for yourself: Vinyl vs. CD   Apr 1 2003, 07:37
- - Atlantis   Could you provide a sample of the piano solo in th...   Apr 1 2003, 09:59
- - ff123   QUOTE (Atlantis @ Apr 1 2003 - 12:59 AM)Could...   Apr 1 2003, 15:23
- - n68   yup... actually... i don`t need to do a comp...   Apr 1 2003, 16:01
- - boojum   If you want really good sound I have some wax cyli...   Apr 1 2003, 16:15
- - ff123   QUOTE (boojum @ Apr 1 2003 - 07:15 AM)If you ...   Apr 1 2003, 16:19
- - ff123   QUOTE (n68 @ Apr 1 2003 - 07:01 AM)yes.. am a...   Apr 1 2003, 16:45
- - Bedeox   Hehe, most vinyl sound so good, because they were ...   Apr 1 2003, 16:46
- - ff123   QUOTE (Bedeox @ Apr 1 2003 - 07:46 AM)@ff123:...   Apr 1 2003, 16:50
- - Bedeox   I am actually using some tool written by the autho...   Apr 1 2003, 17:22
- - ff123   QUOTE (Bedeox @ Apr 1 2003 - 08:22 AM)I am ac...   Apr 1 2003, 17:32
- - tacitus10   Most Vinyl tracks I have heard sound superior than...   Apr 1 2003, 17:38
- - Pio2001   And what about this version ? piosample.pac ?   Apr 1 2003, 18:30
- - Bedeox   @ff123: Thanks, these utils are great, but none sh...   Apr 1 2003, 18:41
- - Pio2001   No other webspace lets me upload files bigger than...   Apr 1 2003, 19:31
- - Bedeox   Well, I've downloaded all of them... that serv...   Apr 1 2003, 19:38
- - ff123   QUOTE (Bedeox @ Apr 1 2003 - 10:38 AM)Why hav...   Apr 1 2003, 19:40
- - Pio2001   I updated piosample.pac. I realized that it was b...   Apr 1 2003, 20:27
- - Bedeox   CD sample has much more high frequencies, sounds l...   Apr 1 2003, 20:35
- - ff123   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Apr 1 2003 - 09:30 AM)And wh...   Apr 2 2003, 06:03
- - darin   I don't know alot about the tech. side of audi...   Apr 2 2003, 06:45
- - fewtch   I definitely hear the higher frequencies in the CD...   Apr 2 2003, 07:35
- - ff123   QUOTE (fewtch @ Apr 1 2003 - 10:35 PM)I defin...   Apr 2 2003, 07:45
- - ff123   QUOTE (ff123 @ Apr 1 2003 - 09:03 PM)Hehe, I ...   Apr 2 2003, 08:11
- - budgie   Have a fun... You can find cases when a LP sound b...   Apr 2 2003, 08:39
- - fewtch   QUOTE (budgie @ Apr 2 2003 - 12:39 AM)Have a ...   Apr 2 2003, 08:43
- - fewtch   QUOTE (ff123 @ Apr 2 2003 - 12:11 AM)QUOTE (f...   Apr 2 2003, 09:00
- - 2Bdecided   For a good (almost April fool's) vinyl vs CD c...   Apr 2 2003, 10:10
- - Pio2001   Damned ! My process has been guessed ! I ...   Apr 2 2003, 11:35
- - Pio2001   QUOTE (fewtch @ Apr 2 2003 - 09:35 AM)It shou...   Apr 2 2003, 12:40
- - ger@co   I Think (because I'm not positive) that the ma...   Apr 2 2003, 13:27
- - budgie   QUOTE (fewtch @ Apr 1 2003 - 11:43 PM)P.S... ...   Apr 2 2003, 13:44
- - budgie   QUOTE (ger@co @ Apr 2 2003 - 04:27 AM)I Think...   Apr 2 2003, 13:50
- - fewtch   QUOTE (budgie @ Apr 2 2003 - 05:44 AM)QUOTE (...   Apr 2 2003, 15:08
- - fewtch   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Apr 2 2003 - 03:35 AM)After ...   Apr 2 2003, 15:13
- - ff123   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Apr 2 2003 - 01:10 AM)P.S....   Apr 2 2003, 15:40
- - fewtch   QUOTE (ff123 @ Apr 2 2003 - 07:40 AM)The CD r...   Apr 2 2003, 16:16
- - Pio2001   QUOTE (ger@co @ Apr 2 2003 - 03:27 PM)I Think...   Apr 2 2003, 19:18
- - ff123   QUOTE (ff123 @ Apr 1 2003 - 11:11 PM)Pio, you...   Apr 3 2003, 05:47
- - budgie   QUOTE (ff123 @ Apr 2 2003 - 08:47 PM)I tried ...   Apr 3 2003, 08:25
- - KikeG   QUOTE (budgie @ Apr 3 2003 - 08:25 AM)The onl...   Apr 3 2003, 08:36
- - ff123   QUOTE (budgie @ Apr 2 2003 - 11:25 PM)QUOTE (...   Apr 3 2003, 09:22
- - Pio2001   I definitely need ABX, even for myself. I can play...   Apr 3 2003, 11:12
- - budgie   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Apr 3 2003 - 02:12 AM)...Thu...   Apr 3 2003, 11:18
- - ger@co   @ budgie. Yes, you basically said the same thing ...   Apr 4 2003, 01:56
- - JonPike   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Apr 2 2003 - 02:35 AM)Damned...   Apr 4 2003, 06:27
- - JonPike   QUOTE (ger@co @ Apr 2 2003 - 04:27 AM)I Think...   Apr 4 2003, 09:08
- - ger@co   I wasn't talking about any specific standard. ...   Apr 4 2003, 09:23
- - budgie   QUOTE (ff123 @ Apr 2 2003 - 06:40 AM)I am app...   Apr 4 2003, 09:33
- - Pio2001   QUOTE (JonPike @ Apr 4 2003 - 08:27 AM)What...   Apr 4 2003, 11:25
- - Pio2001   Tell me vinyls are dynamic ! Depeche Mode -...   Apr 7 2003, 00:45
- - budgie   Pio2001: Just your ears got fooled a little bit.....   Apr 7 2003, 08:45
- - tacitus10   Unlike digital, with analogue you can hear well be...   Apr 7 2003, 09:15
- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (tacitus10 @ Apr 7 2003 - 08:15 AM)Unli...   Apr 7 2003, 10:44
- - Pio2001   QUOTE (budgie @ Apr 7 2003 - 10:45 AM)Pio2001...   Apr 7 2003, 11:45
- - KikeG   QUOTE (tacitus10 @ Apr 7 2003 - 09:15 AM)Unli...   Apr 7 2003, 12:00
- - tacitus10   Sorry about the Apogee stuff. Excuse my ignorance...   Apr 7 2003, 14:30
- - 2Bdecided   That's OK. It's not ignorance - it's n...   Apr 7 2003, 15:12
- - JonPike   QUOTE (budgie @ Apr 4 2003 - 12:33 AM)QUOTE (...   Apr 8 2003, 10:17
- - budgie   QUOTE (JonPike @ Apr 8 2003 - 01:17 AM)Like i...   Apr 8 2003, 10:47
- - Shpongled   I think the real question that people want answere...   Aug 5 2007, 01:25
|- - gib   That has to be a record for a thread exhumation. ...   Aug 5 2007, 12:43
- - Light-Fire   CD's are a lot better than vinyl (except for t...   Aug 5 2007, 16:46


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