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-V2 gives way too high bitrate!?!
masterridley
post Mar 29 2010, 16:48
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I use dbpoweramp and I encode flac tracks to LAME 3.98r -V2. Usually this results in ~170 to ~220 kbps files (close to 192kbps CBR quality)

Well, not so for 2 As I Lay Dying albums that I have (think REALLY LOUD metal). When I encode those I get 230-270 kbps and of course the resulting files are quite big.

My question is: is this a bug or completely natural?
Furthermore (if it's not a bug), isn't it just better to encode in 192kbps and get a smaller file, since that's the quality I was going for anyway?

Cheers
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shadowking
post Apr 1 2010, 10:49
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This is still going back to my point. Users don't need to make an informed decision unless the current V system is broken. This was the case 7 yrs ago when the was no V system and preset medium couldn't be 'trusted' . Today from what I read people are having a hard time with -V5 - not -V3 or even -V4.

All mentions of -Y in the wiki look confusing and not professional. In the last 128k tests -V5.7 was used to obtain desired bitrate and NOT some random collection of switches. This worked put very well.

It would be wiser to mention *possible* bloating on some material - rock / metal due to mp3 limitations and that encoder is still doing the right job (its VBR after all). To maintain reasonable quality at an economic bitrate one should consider -V2.7 or -V3. It should be said those settings are still quality tuned but encode HF to lesser precision.


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Aleron Ives
post Apr 1 2010, 11:18
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QUOTE (shadowking @ Apr 1 2010, 02:49) *
This is still going back to my point. Users don't need to make an informed decision unless the current V system is broken. This was the case 7 yrs ago when the was no V system and preset medium couldn't be 'trusted' . Today from what I read people are having a hard time with -V5 - not -V3 or even -V4.

All mentions of -Y in the wiki look confusing and not professional. In the last 128k tests -V5.7 was used to obtain desired bitrate and NOT some random collection of switches. This worked put very well.

Maybe it's just me, but I think deliberately trying to keep people in the dark is "unprofessional". It seems like you're saying, "Most people are too stupid to understand any of this, so let's not even bother trying to explain things in the first place."

There's nothing wrong with having a very simple, well-tuned set of presets for the novice user to get good results with LAME, but I also don't think there's anything wrong with giving more in-depth explanations of how things work. LAME has a ton of configuration options that aren't all very well-explained in the longhelp, so having another resource to turn to for information is beneficial. If the purpose of LAME was to just provide a very simple and static set of MP3 encoding options limited to preset configurations, then all the switches wouldn't exist. The fact that the developers haven't removed them suggests to me that they figure somebody somewhere might have use of them. Consequently, it's nice to explain to people what they do should they wish to read such information. It's not like we're forcing people to read any of the in-depth wiki information. They can easly just see "use -V 2" on the main LAME page or in the LAME recommended usage message if they want the super-simple answer. The fact that someone is reading the wiki page on LAME suggests that they do in fact want more information.

While I can see the merit of trying to separate the in-depth information from the basic information, I think more than just the Y switch is "confusing" in that regard. The entire technical table of V settings ought to be moved to an advanced LAME settings page, as under the assumption that "people don't need to make informed decisions", knowing things like the lowpass for each setting is superfluous.
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Posts in this topic
- masterridley   -V2 gives way too high bitrate!?!   Mar 29 2010, 16:48
- - dv1989   Natural. VBR targets quality, not bitrate. Loud me...   Mar 29 2010, 16:52
|- - dsimcha   QUOTE (dv1989 @ Mar 29 2010, 11:52) Natur...   Mar 29 2010, 16:56
- - [JAZ]   metal (being loud and "noisy"*) kicks on...   Mar 29 2010, 17:06
- - masterridley   Damn! That's what I suspected too (compres...   Mar 29 2010, 17:07
- - robert   You could update to LAME 3.98.4, as previous 3.98 ...   Mar 29 2010, 17:13
- - pdq   QUOTE (masterridley @ Mar 29 2010, 11:48)...   Mar 29 2010, 17:14
- - dv1989   QUOTE (pdq)If you really want the best quality whi...   Mar 29 2010, 17:24
- - masterridley   QUOTE (JAZ)Two ways to workaround (workaround not ...   Mar 29 2010, 17:26
- - greynol   -Y does not cut content above 16k; it is not a low...   Mar 29 2010, 17:43
- - lvqcl   QUOTE Regarding -Y, doesn't it kick in with -V...   Mar 29 2010, 18:06
- - Aleron Ives   I hate to continue discussion about -Y since it se...   Mar 30 2010, 04:59
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Aleron Ives @ Mar 29 2010, 20:59) ...   Mar 30 2010, 05:20
|- - Aleron Ives   QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 29 2010, 20:20) QUOT...   Mar 30 2010, 05:48
- - shadowking   I suggest not to fiddle with -Y . If you want a lo...   Mar 30 2010, 11:10
|- - Aleron Ives   QUOTE (shadowking @ Mar 30 2010, 02:10) I...   Mar 30 2010, 23:38
- - [JAZ]   I am preparing to put this on the wiki (but my use...   Mar 30 2010, 12:03
- - benski   very short version: -Y switch makes LAME not encod...   Mar 30 2010, 17:35
- - greynol   It was not too long and is well worth reading, ben...   Mar 30 2010, 17:42
|- - benski   QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 30 2010, 11:42) It w...   Mar 30 2010, 17:44
- - greynol   I hope you caught my edits above since I think you...   Mar 30 2010, 17:55
- - [JAZ]   I would like an answer from robert, or someone tha...   Mar 31 2010, 10:25
|- - Aleron Ives   QUOTE ([JAZ] @ Mar 31 2010, 02:25...   Mar 31 2010, 10:53
|- - robert   QUOTE ([JAZ] @ Mar 31 2010, 11:25...   Mar 31 2010, 12:33
- - shadowking   -Y is still 'experimental'. It was never ...   Mar 31 2010, 11:52
|- - Aleron Ives   I would like to thank robert for explaining the co...   Mar 31 2010, 23:58
- - [JAZ]   Thanks robert. I've used your explanations as ...   Mar 31 2010, 13:16
- - Ajax   The original poster "masterridley" (a ne...   Mar 31 2010, 14:16
- - robert   global gain: is the global quantization step size ...   Mar 31 2010, 14:25
- - pdq   @[JAZ] You might also point out that for older fo...   Mar 31 2010, 14:47
- - shadowking   We should not be recommending or documenting -Y un...   Mar 31 2010, 14:53
- - dv1989   QUOTE (Knowledgebase)LAME Y SWITH Surely I needn...   Mar 31 2010, 15:04
- - [JAZ]   DOH! I saw something strange in that, but i d...   Mar 31 2010, 20:45
- - dv1989   The spelling was one thing. Also, it may not matte...   Mar 31 2010, 21:09
- - shadowking   This is still going back to my point. Users don...   Apr 1 2010, 10:49
|- - Aleron Ives   QUOTE (shadowking @ Apr 1 2010, 02:49) Th...   Apr 1 2010, 11:18
|- - greynol   QUOTE (shadowking @ Apr 1 2010, 02:49) Us...   Apr 1 2010, 18:28
- - [JAZ]   Robert, can you comment on this line of the articl...   Apr 1 2010, 11:22
- - robert   QUOTE If global gain is zero, resolution will need...   Apr 1 2010, 11:37
- - [JAZ]   Talk about failing to read... I didn't ful...   Apr 1 2010, 13:39


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