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Reasons to switch to EAC from foobar or winamp for ripping., was: "why is EAC the best?"
airtas
post Mar 7 2010, 07:38
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I have been using foobar and or winamp with lame to rip my mp3s and flacs.


What benefits do I get from EAC? Is it better error correction? If my cds have no scratches do I need EAC?

Please explain as when I looked into EAC settings I found a 6 page guide on customizing settings, and with winamp everything is auto, am I missing something, quality wise?
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Sycraft
post Mar 7 2010, 07:56
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More or less EAC seems to do the most through job of checking for errors of any ripper out there. It does this in all kinds of ways like testing the CD-ROM to see how it rips, what kind of errors it can detect and so on, and also by checking against a database. If EAC says your rip is good, it is extremely likely it is good. If there's a problem, like damage to a disc that causes read problems, EAC very often can find a way to compensate for it and still get a good rip.

So it is kind of a quality assurance thing. Rip with EAC, you probably have no problems.

How much does this matter? Hard to say. It partially depends on your discs. If they are in good condition then there is less likely to be any trouble reading them and thus you are more likely to get a good rip regardless. However just because they look ok doesn't mean there isn't damage that you can't easily see with the naked eye. Remember that the pits on a CD are very small, so there could be damage smaller than you can see that still causes problems. It also partially depends on your drive. Some drives do a really good job reading audio CDs, others are very poor at it. So if you have a good drive, you aren't likely to have a problem, but if you don't you may.

As an example with drives back in the day they used to have real problems with accurate seeking. The computer would say "Go read data from this spot," and they'd just kinda go to the general area. That meant to get a good rip you had to have your program compensate for this, read more than it needed to, and correct all the read jitter. As far as I know, drives these days don't have that issue. The one I have doesn't at least. I'll seek accurate to a single sample and start reading again, meaning that no correction needs to be done.

I personally just use EAC because it is free, works well, and is the best way to guarantee a good rip. I probably don't need to, something else would probalby work fine, but since EAC doesn't cost anything, I figure why not?

The reason why this is necessary is that audio CDs don't have as good an error correction as data CDs. You can actually see this in sizes. A normal CD these days holds 700MB of data, or 80 minutes of audio. Well CD audio is 44.1kHz, 16-bit stereo. That equals 172 kilobytes per second, or about 10MB per minute. That means that 80 minutes of audio needs 800MB. So how's that work? Well in data mode that extra 100MB is used up in the additional error correction that is done. In audio mode, it isn't there. As such audio CDs can have errors much easier than data CDs that can't be corrected.
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Light-Fire
post Mar 7 2010, 08:18
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QUOTE (Sycraft @ Mar 7 2010, 01:56) *
... A normal CD these days holds 700MB of data, or 80 minutes of audio...


There is no such a thing as audio in a CD. The "audio" in the CD is actually data.
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westgroveg
post Mar 7 2010, 10:37
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QUOTE (Light-Fire @ Mar 7 2010, 20:18) *
QUOTE (Sycraft @ Mar 7 2010, 01:56) *
... A normal CD these days holds 700MB of data, or 80 minutes of audio...


There is no such a thing as audio in a CD. The "audio" in the CD is actually data.

Yes there is, "audio data" is recorded differently on CD's, thus why more fits. It's a method of recording & the standard for audio CD's, not that any of this is relevent...

EAC is the best as Sycraft said because you can be very sure, you don't need to rely on a database or anything like that althought you can you don't need to & don't get stuck if your CD isn't listed or the pressing is diffrent or if you have offset issues...
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Light-Fire
post Mar 7 2010, 18:13
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QUOTE (westgroveg @ Mar 7 2010, 04:37) *
QUOTE (Light-Fire @ Mar 7 2010, 20:18) *
QUOTE (Sycraft @ Mar 7 2010, 01:56) *
... A normal CD these days holds 700MB of data, or 80 minutes of audio...


There is no such a thing as audio in a CD. The "audio" in the CD is actually data.

Yes there is, "audio data" is recorded differently on CD's, thus why more fits. It's a method of recording & the standard for audio CD's, not that any of this is relevent...

EAC is the best as Sycraft said because you can be very sure, you don't need to rely on a database or anything like that althought you can you don't need to & don't get stuck if your CD isn't listed or the pressing is diffrent or if you have offset issues...


Let's clear up Sycraft misconceptions:

1) The amount of data that fits in a CD is EXACTLY the same. It doesn't matter what type of data you have int it. The maximum capacity of the physical media is always the same (700 Mbyte nowadays)

2) Once more. There is no audio in CDs. Only data. The CD containing PCM data doesn't have an error correction system based on check sum because was never intended to be ripped, so there is no way for the computer to know if the data ripped from the CD is 100% correct of not.

3) EAC (and any other ripper) NEVER knows for sure if got it right. Depending on a data base (AccurateRip) is more likely to give you an accurate result (without destroying your CD/DVD driver). Once your files are ripped in a "modern" type of file (flac, wav, etc.) it is possible for your computer to know (from now on) if that file is corrupted or not, because now you can use checksum to verify it's integrity. Comparing your data with the data that other people got from their different equipment and discs and getting the same results indicate with way more confidence than EAC ripping without AccurateRip that you got it right because if you have an error this error is not likely to be the same as other people have in their CDs so your data will not match anybody's.


Don't take me wrong. I am not against EAC. It is a great tool when you have a damaged CD which rips don't match AccurateRip's data base.

And yes. Using burst mode will not stress your CD driver, but then EAC will be just like any other ripper.


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cliveb
post Mar 7 2010, 20:36
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QUOTE (Light-Fire @ Mar 7 2010, 17:13) *
Let's clear up Sycraft misconceptions:

1) The amount of data that fits in a CD is EXACTLY the same. It doesn't matter what type of data you have int it. The maximum capacity of the physical media is always the same (700 Mbyte nowadays)

If you decide to aggressively correct what someone else has said, you'd better be sure you are right.

An audio format CD stores 2352 bytes of data in every sector. A data format CD stores 2048 bytes of data in every sector. The remaining 304 bytes are divided between addressing data (16 bytes) and additional error detection and correction data (288 bytes). The reason that a data CD has less data and more error correction redundancy is because you absolutely cannot tolerate a single bit in error, whereas unrecoverable errors on an audio CD can usually be masked by interpolation.

In summary, a standard "80 minute" CD can store about 700MB when written in data format, and about 800MB if it is created in audio format.
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westgroveg
post Mar 9 2010, 12:27
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QUOTE (cliveb @ Mar 8 2010, 08:36) *
QUOTE (Light-Fire @ Mar 7 2010, 17:13) *
Let's clear up Sycraft misconceptions:

1) The amount of data that fits in a CD is EXACTLY the same. It doesn't matter what type of data you have int it. The maximum capacity of the physical media is always the same (700 Mbyte nowadays)

If you decide to aggressively correct what someone else has said, you'd better be sure you are right.

An audio format CD stores 2352 bytes of data in every sector. A data format CD stores 2048 bytes of data in every sector. The remaining 304 bytes are divided between addressing data (16 bytes) and additional error detection and correction data (288 bytes). The reason that a data CD has less data and more error correction redundancy is because you absolutely cannot tolerate a single bit in error, whereas unrecoverable errors on an audio CD can usually be masked by interpolation.

In summary, a standard "80 minute" CD can store about 700MB when written in data format, and about 800MB if it is created in audio format.

Perfect, simple yet technical, you should write some online tutorials :-)

It amazes me someone can write such fiction, Light-Fire I mean.

Light-Fire it's easy, I know you don't care & just want to feel like you have a PHD in BS but do the simple test of extracting the PCM data & then re-writing it as a standard data CD.

Sorry to be an ass but your just wrong.
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Posts in this topic
- airtas   Reasons to switch to EAC from foobar or winamp for ripping.   Mar 7 2010, 07:38
- - Sycraft   More or less EAC seems to do the most through job ...   Mar 7 2010, 07:56
|- - Light-Fire   QUOTE (Sycraft @ Mar 7 2010, 01:56) ... A...   Mar 7 2010, 08:18
|- - westgroveg   QUOTE (Light-Fire @ Mar 7 2010, 20:1...   Mar 7 2010, 10:37
|- - Light-Fire   QUOTE (westgroveg @ Mar 7 2010, 04:37) QU...   Mar 7 2010, 18:13
||- - cliveb   QUOTE (Light-Fire @ Mar 7 2010, 17:1...   Mar 7 2010, 20:36
||- - westgroveg   QUOTE (cliveb @ Mar 8 2010, 08:36) QUOTE ...   Mar 9 2010, 12:27
|- - airtas   QUOTE (westgroveg @ Mar 7 2010, 05:37) QU...   Aug 14 2010, 06:06
|- - spoon   QUOTE (westgroveg @ Mar 7 2010, 10:37) yo...   Aug 14 2010, 13:16
|- - airtas   QUOTE (spoon @ Aug 14 2010, 08:16) QUOTE ...   Sep 5 2010, 22:41
|- - pdq   QUOTE (airtas @ Sep 5 2010, 17:41) what w...   Sep 6 2010, 00:42
|- - spoon   QUOTE (pdq @ Sep 6 2010, 00:42) QUOTE (ai...   Sep 6 2010, 09:30
|- - greynol   QUOTE (spoon @ Sep 6 2010, 01:30) Often t...   Sep 6 2010, 20:58
- - Light-Fire   QUOTE (airtas @ Mar 7 2010, 01:38) What b...   Mar 7 2010, 08:14
|- - Akkurat   QUOTE (Light-Fire @ Mar 7 2010, 09:1...   Mar 7 2010, 11:56
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (Light-Fire @ Mar 7 2010, 08:1...   Mar 7 2010, 13:58
|- - Akkurat   QUOTE (Porcus @ Mar 7 2010, 14:58) Also, ...   Mar 7 2010, 14:44
- - westgroveg   And PlexTools (with Plextor drive) has the best er...   Mar 7 2010, 10:45
- - airtas   Why type of errors does EAC prevent? So If I rip...   Mar 7 2010, 17:24
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (airtas @ Mar 7 2010, 17:24) Why ty...   Mar 7 2010, 17:39
- - bahathir   How about cdrdao or cdparanoia ? Are these tools a...   Sep 6 2010, 04:36
- - greynol   I bet I'm not the only one here viewing the ti...   Sep 6 2010, 04:45
|- - bahathir   QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 6 2010, 11:45) I bet...   Sep 6 2010, 07:18
- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 5 2010, 22:45) I bet...   Sep 6 2010, 09:46
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Sep 6 2010, 01:46) d...   Sep 6 2010, 21:02
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 6 2010, 15:02) QUOTE...   Sep 7 2010, 08:53
- - greynol   EAC can be operated at the default settings and wo...   Sep 7 2010, 18:38
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 7 2010, 12:38) EAC c...   Sep 8 2010, 06:36
- - greynol   It's alright. I think dBpoweramp is deserving...   Sep 8 2010, 07:12
- - memomai   can someone post a link where it's explained w...   Sep 8 2010, 07:51
- - greynol   Common sense should dictate, though there seems to...   Sep 8 2010, 07:59
- - memomai   there could have been also other reasons but using...   Sep 8 2010, 10:12
- - greynol   I'm not a professional, but thanks. My usage ...   Sep 8 2010, 17:19


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