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MP3s generated with dbpoweramp not gapless
dancrocker
post Jan 15 2010, 23:58
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I hope this is the right forum and that this topic hasn't been beaten to death. I apologize if I'm wrong on either of these. I searched but didn't find the answer I was looking for. Of course, the amount of info here is a bit overwhelming smile.gif

I used dbpoweramp to rip to FLAC, then generate 320kbit CBR MP3s. ITunes plays them gaplessly as does foobar2000. However, my iPod (5th generation) does not. There's a teeny "gap" (more like a glitch). My iPhone 3G doesn't play them gaplessly either although the "gap" is more like a click. Meanwhile, MP3s generated by iTunes play on the iPod perfectly.

I know, years ago, there was a lot of noise about apple not supporting gapless. But, I thought this was all resolved. Certainly, it appears to work fine if the MP3s are encoded with iTunes.

Is this a well-known problem? I found some other posts that seemed to say that LAME encoded MP3s (which is what dbpoweramp uses) play gaplessly on iPods. So, I'm puzzled as to while I'm having this trouble. I'd appreciate any help or suggestions.
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kornchild2002
post Jan 16 2010, 00:08
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I have thousands of Lame mp3 files on my 120GB iPod and they playback gaplessly (they work fine on my 5G 60GB iPod too). Have you modified these mp3 files with another application? Did iTunes scan the files for gapless playback when you added them to your library?
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dancrocker
post Jan 16 2010, 00:16
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QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Jan 15 2010, 18:08) *
I have thousands of Lame mp3 files on my 120GB iPod and they playback gaplessly (they work fine on my 5G 60GB iPod too). Have you modified these mp3 files with another application? Did iTunes scan the files for gapless playback when you added them to your library?


I didn't modify them at all; they're straight from dbpoweramp. I didn't pay close attention to iTunes when I added them but I don't remember seeing any messages indicating scanning for gapless. I can remove them and re-add them to check. Is there a way to disable this function just in case?

Is it possible that some LAME settings used by dbpoweramp aren't proper to allow gapless?

Also, if you wouldn't mind, could you listen again to some music that needs to be played gaplessly and make sure it sounds right? A co-worker of mine also told me that his music played gaplessly on his iPod but when he listened again, he heard the same thing I'm hearing. It's very subtle so it's easy to miss unless you're listening closely with headphones. In case it helps, his test case was the second side of Abbey Road and mind is Dark Side of the Moon.
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kornchild2002
post Jan 16 2010, 03:21
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QUOTE (dancrocker @ Jan 15 2010, 16:16) *
I didn't modify them at all; they're straight from dbpoweramp. I didn't pay close attention to iTunes when I added them but I don't remember seeing any messages indicating scanning for gapless. I can remove them and re-add them to check. Is there a way to disable this function just in case?


Yes, you can try removing them from your library and adding them back in. You will see the "Determining gapless playback..." message at the top of iTunes where you normally see the Apple logo. You can click out of this option and some people do it as they don't want iTunes to scan their files. The process takes (about) less than one second per track so you might see it flash for a few seconds when adding an album. You can add multiple albums to iTunes just to make sure iTunes scans them.

QUOTE (dancrocker @ Jan 15 2010, 16:16) *
Is it possible that some LAME settings used by dbpoweramp aren't proper to allow gapless?


Other than what is mentioned, not that I know of. Most of the Lame files I have (either Lame 3.97 or Lame 3.98.2) were made with dBpowerAMP so I don't think that is an issue. Just for kicks and giggles, I went back and encoded Dark Side Of The Moon with dBpowerAMP and Lame 3.98.2 at -V 2 (from my source Apple lossless files). It played back alright in iTunes, on my 120GB iPod classic, and my 5G 60GB iPod. I then tried Tool's 10,000 Days and received the same results.

What version of Lame is dBpowerAMP using and what version of dBpowerAMP are you using?

This post has been edited by kornchild2002: Jan 16 2010, 03:21
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dancrocker
post Jan 16 2010, 18:30
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QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Jan 15 2010, 21:21) *
QUOTE (dancrocker @ Jan 15 2010, 16:16) *
I didn't modify them at all; they're straight from dbpoweramp. I didn't pay close attention to iTunes when I added them but I don't remember seeing any messages indicating scanning for gapless. I can remove them and re-add them to check. Is there a way to disable this function just in case?


Yes, you can try removing them from your library and adding them back in. You will see the "Determining gapless playback..." message at the top of iTunes where you normally see the Apple logo. You can click out of this option and some people do it as they don't want iTunes to scan their files. The process takes (about) less than one second per track so you might see it flash for a few seconds when adding an album. You can add multiple albums to iTunes just to make sure iTunes scans them.

QUOTE (dancrocker @ Jan 15 2010, 16:16) *
Is it possible that some LAME settings used by dbpoweramp aren't proper to allow gapless?


Other than what is mentioned, not that I know of. Most of the Lame files I have (either Lame 3.97 or Lame 3.98.2) were made with dBpowerAMP so I don't think that is an issue. Just for kicks and giggles, I went back and encoded Dark Side Of The Moon with dBpowerAMP and Lame 3.98.2 at -V 2 (from my source Apple lossless files). It played back alright in iTunes, on my 120GB iPod classic, and my 5G 60GB iPod. I then tried Tool's 10,000 Days and received the same results.

What version of Lame is dBpowerAMP using and what version of dBpowerAMP are you using?


OK, I removed and re-added the files. There was no gapless scanning; only something about "detmining song volume".
As for the versions, I'm using the free dbpoweramp (it's actually still the professional version until the trial period ends). It's release 13.3. The LAME it's using is 3.98.2.
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maggior
post Jan 19 2010, 21:15
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QUOTE (dancrocker @ Jan 16 2010, 13:30) *
There was no gapless scanning; only something about "detmining song volume".


Wow, I can't believe we haven't figured this out yet. This should just simply work, which is what makes it difficult to figure out what's wrong.

Based on what you've described, I would concentrate on why you do not see the "determining gapless" message in iTunes when you import your music files. I think you've determined that the mp3 files themselves have been properly made. Ever since I've been using mp3 files encoded by LAME, I've seen this message in iTunes. I started out using version 7.x. I recently installed 9.x on my laptop. I've never had an issue like this.

You mention at one point using a older Nano and seeing an issue. That rules out fragmentation I would think.

Have you tried newer/older versions of iTunes? Perhaps the version of iTunes that you have has a bug.

I've never seen "determining song volume". Do you have somesort of gain feature turned on? Maybe you can try turning that off.

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dancrocker
post Jan 20 2010, 04:53
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QUOTE (maggior @ Jan 19 2010, 15:15) *
QUOTE (dancrocker @ Jan 16 2010, 13:30) *
There was no gapless scanning; only something about "detmining song volume".


Wow, I can't believe we haven't figured this out yet. This should just simply work, which is what makes it difficult to figure out what's wrong.

Based on what you've described, I would concentrate on why you do not see the "determining gapless" message in iTunes when you import your music files. I think you've determined that the mp3 files themselves have been properly made. Ever since I've been using mp3 files encoded by LAME, I've seen this message in iTunes. I started out using version 7.x. I recently installed 9.x on my laptop. I've never had an issue like this.

You mention at one point using a older Nano and seeing an issue. That rules out fragmentation I would think.

Have you tried newer/older versions of iTunes? Perhaps the version of iTunes that you have has a bug.

I've never seen "determining song volume". Do you have somesort of gain feature turned on? Maybe you can try turning that off.


I agree that this should just work. It's very frustrating.
I also agree that I don't think any kind of a fragmentation problem because, as you say, the nano has a similar problem. In addition, files ripped with iTunes work fine.
Regarding "determining gapless", I was expecting that the iPod would use the gapless info in the MP3 during playback. Obviously, some here think this is not the case. Still, something doesn't add up. The files play almost perfectly; there's no gap that I would expect if the files were truly not encoded with any gapless info and if iTunes didn't fix them up. It seems that either iTunes or the iPod is using this info even though iTunes doesn't explicitly say anything about it. Perhaps the gapless scanning only happens if the files are imported without any gapless info? I seem to remember that iTunes is able to take non-gapless files and create gapless ones. I don't know how it works, but I think it can do this. If this is true, then I wouldn't expect any gapless scanning for the files I'm importing.
I would appreciate it someone could do an experiment for me: import MP3s that have gapless info in the header and see if their iTunes indicates any gapless scanning is going on.
I guess I could try an old version of iTunes but, for one thing, I don't know where to get old versions. For another, I'm not sure I'd be interested in down-grading just to fix this. My "work-around" would be to rip and encode with iTunes, using ALAC as my lossless (archive) format. I'd rather use FLAC but if I can't find a way to make clean MP3s out of FLAC, I'll settle for ALAC.

One specific question: Is there a way to create MP3s without the gapless info (e.g. a LAME command line option)? If so, I could do this and see if iTunes does the automatic gapless scanning. As an alternative, can I edit the MP3 to get rid of these fields (or change the value to something innocuous)?
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lukpac
post Jul 11 2012, 20:15
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QUOTE (dancrocker @ Jan 19 2010, 21:53) *
I also agree that I don't think any kind of a fragmentation problem because, as you say, the nano has a similar problem. In addition, files ripped with iTunes work fine.


Has anybody ever come up with any sort of answer to this? The same issue appears in this thread without an answer. I've been having exactly the same problem: iTunes plays things fine regardless of whether the MP3s were created in iTunes or LAME, while my iPod (Classic, 120 GB) will sometimes produce small hiccups between LAME files. That is to say, some files produced by LAME always sound fine, while others always have hiccups between them. Files produced by iTunes never have hiccups between them when played on the iPod.

I haven't done quite the amount of testing Dan has, but my experiences thus far have been consistent. Also, I don't have all the details in front of me regarding versions and such, but can provide them if requested. I updated LAME within the past few months, so it is pretty recent.
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Posts in this topic
- dancrocker   MP3s generated with dbpoweramp not gapless   Jan 15 2010, 23:58
- - kornchild2002   I have thousands of Lame mp3 files on my 120GB iPo...   Jan 16 2010, 00:08
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Jan 15 2010, 18:08...   Jan 16 2010, 00:16
|- - kornchild2002   QUOTE (dancrocker @ Jan 15 2010, 16:16) I...   Jan 16 2010, 03:21
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Jan 15 2010, 21:21...   Jan 16 2010, 18:30
|- - maggior   QUOTE (dancrocker @ Jan 16 2010, 13:30) T...   Jan 19 2010, 21:15
|- - garym   QUOTE (maggior @ Jan 19 2010, 15:15) I...   Jan 19 2010, 21:22
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (maggior @ Jan 19 2010, 15:15) QUOT...   Jan 20 2010, 04:53
|- - lukpac   QUOTE (dancrocker @ Jan 19 2010, 21:53) I...   Jul 11 2012, 20:15
|- - lukpac   Bump?   Oct 15 2013, 03:20
- - Teknojnky   its the 'force iso compatibility' option. ...   Jan 16 2010, 00:35
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (Teknojnky @ Jan 15 2010, 18:35) it...   Jan 16 2010, 00:38
- - maggior   Are you using a paid for version of dbPowerAmp or ...   Jan 16 2010, 03:37
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (maggior @ Jan 15 2010, 21:37) Are ...   Jan 16 2010, 18:34
|- - garym   Do you have replaygain turned on (or SOUNDCHECK in...   Jan 16 2010, 20:07
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (garym @ Jan 16 2010, 14:07) Do you...   Jan 16 2010, 23:41
- - spoon   >dbPowerAmp or the free version? The free versi...   Jan 16 2010, 11:35
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (spoon @ Jan 16 2010, 05:35) >db...   Jan 16 2010, 18:25
|- - maggior   QUOTE (spoon @ Jan 16 2010, 06:35) >db...   Jan 19 2010, 21:04
- - kornchild2002   Would you be willing to upload a 30 second sample ...   Jan 17 2010, 03:37
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Jan 16 2010, 21:37...   Jan 17 2010, 06:43
- - kornchild2002   We could determine if the gap is really an issue o...   Jan 17 2010, 08:33
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Jan 17 2010, 02:33...   Jan 18 2010, 05:08
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Jan 17 2010, 07:33...   Jan 18 2010, 10:39
|- - garym   can't help here but just to note that I have 1...   Jan 18 2010, 15:18
|- - kornchild2002   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jan 18 2010, 02:39) I ...   Jan 18 2010, 17:33
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Jan 18 2010, 16:33...   Jan 19 2010, 07:51
|- - DonP   QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Jan 18 2010, 11:33...   Jan 19 2010, 13:41
|- - kornchild2002   QUOTE (DonP @ Jan 19 2010, 05:41) Less th...   Jan 19 2010, 15:45
|- - DonP   QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Jan 19 2010, 09:45...   Jan 19 2010, 16:35
|- - kornchild2002   QUOTE (DonP @ Jan 19 2010, 08:35) OK... l...   Jan 19 2010, 19:08
|- - garym   for the record, my mp3 files that work properly (g...   Jan 19 2010, 20:53
- - kornchild2002   Well, figuring out if you were being too picky wou...   Jan 18 2010, 05:13
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Jan 17 2010, 23:13...   Jan 18 2010, 23:47
|- - garym   QUOTE (dancrocker @ Jan 18 2010, 17:47) A...   Jan 18 2010, 23:53
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (garym @ Jan 18 2010, 17:53) QUOTE ...   Jan 19 2010, 01:00
|- - garym   I recall that you said you are creating "320k...   Jan 19 2010, 01:08
- - spoon   On one of the tracks which has problems: Re-Rip t...   Jan 18 2010, 17:56
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (spoon @ Jan 18 2010, 11:56) On one...   Jan 19 2010, 01:49
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (dancrocker @ Jan 18 2010, 19:49) Q...   Jan 19 2010, 02:27
- - Case   Little off topic but I can't let kornchild2002...   Jan 18 2010, 20:03
- - greynol   If the tracks are protected by copyright, then yes...   Jan 19 2010, 01:57
- - kornchild2002   Well, just to try to further help you, I have trie...   Jan 19 2010, 02:47
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Jan 18 2010, 20:47...   Jan 19 2010, 03:26
|- - kornchild2002   QUOTE (dancrocker @ Jan 18 2010, 19:26) T...   Jan 19 2010, 06:01
- - dancrocker   I decided to play around with the command line ver...   Jan 19 2010, 05:11
- - greynol   The --nogap option is really old and pretty much u...   Jan 19 2010, 06:31
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (greynol @ Jan 19 2010, 00:31) The ...   Jan 19 2010, 07:37
|- - robert   @dancrocker Do you add tags like APE or an additio...   Jan 19 2010, 13:37
||- - dancrocker   QUOTE (robert @ Jan 19 2010, 07:37) @danc...   Jan 20 2010, 04:36
|- - DonP   QUOTE (dancrocker @ Jan 19 2010, 01:37) I...   Jan 19 2010, 13:44
|- - greynol   QUOTE (DonP @ Jan 19 2010, 04:44) The opt...   Jan 19 2010, 16:42
- - greynol   Nope, though I have no idea what the problem is wi...   Jan 19 2010, 07:40
- - spoon   I might be wrong but I am sure that iTunes determi...   Jan 19 2010, 10:07
|- - greynol   QUOTE (spoon @ Jan 19 2010, 02:07) I migh...   Oct 15 2013, 13:56
|- - lukpac   QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 15 2013, 06:56) I ha...   Oct 15 2013, 14:02
- - kornchild2002   As I have said, iTunes scans my Lame mp3 files dur...   Jan 20 2010, 20:49
|- - greynol   QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Jan 20 2010, 11:49...   Jan 20 2010, 20:55
|- - garym   QUOTE (greynol @ Jan 20 2010, 14:55) QUOT...   Jan 20 2010, 21:15
|- - kornchild2002   QUOTE (greynol @ Jan 20 2010, 12:55) So w...   Jan 20 2010, 22:13
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Jan 20 2010, 16:13...   Jan 20 2010, 23:22
- - kornchild2002   Just make sure that you aren't playing music w...   Jan 20 2010, 23:37
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Jan 20 2010, 17:37...   Jan 21 2010, 17:42
- - kornchild2002   Not necessarily. For example, back when the Nero ...   Jan 21 2010, 18:52
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Jan 21 2010, 12:52...   Jan 21 2010, 20:02
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (dancrocker @ Jan 21 2010, 14:02) Q...   Jan 24 2010, 01:20
- - kornchild2002   Ooops, I didn't see your reply. Did you delet...   Jan 27 2010, 17:31
|- - dancrocker   QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Jan 27 2010, 11:31...   Feb 1 2010, 20:15
- - greynol   The gapless information used by the iPod is not wh...   Feb 1 2010, 20:20
- - kornchild2002   Right. In my experience, it helps to delete the s...   Feb 1 2010, 23:52
- - probedb   Create a new thread, you're bumping a thread t...   Oct 15 2013, 13:33
- - greynol   Bumping is better than creating a new thread. Ple...   Oct 15 2013, 13:50
- - greynol   Restarting iTunes initiates the scan. It happens e...   Oct 15 2013, 14:05


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