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"The donation button has been removed ...", foobar2000.org
kyrio
post Jan 3 2010, 13:29
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I haven't personally used them more than making an account and looking around the panel but Moneybookers.com looks like a good place.
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Yirkha
post Jan 3 2010, 13:31
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QUOTE (Axon @ Jan 3 2010, 05:48) *
... she find them very pleasant to deal with, she was able to deal with a regional support manager directly ...
QUOTE (Axon @ Jan 3 2010, 05:48) *
... no different than what any other bank in the US would do.
I don't have a direct personal experience other than clicking "Pay using PayPal" buttons, but I think it would be good to note that how their support (and organization altogether) works in the US in your area doesn't say anything about how it works elsewhere, for example in Poland. If not related to maybe some different legal stuff, you can always, for example, simply run into a stupid individual who does his job poorly and that can change the whole view a lot.


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Axon
post Jan 3 2010, 13:45
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Let me restate my post in less politic terms:

If you are committing tax fraud, do not blame PayPal for not letting it happen on their watch.

My post wasn't really intending to convey a request to assist, merely to inform. I don't know nearly enough about the specifics of the situation, and I really do want PayPal to be in the wrong here, but the scope of unknown information allows potential situations in which PayPal's behavior is somewhere between "more or less justified" and "required by law". It also allows many more situations where PayPal is merely acting like the jerks we already know they are. Just sayin'.

Regardless, none of this should be discussed further in a public forum. Talk to a CPA, kids.
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kyrio
post Jan 3 2010, 14:04
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I stopped reading after "tax fraud".
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odyssey
post Jan 3 2010, 14:21
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If Paypal think they can treat customers any way they want, I'm all in for spreading the word! I think the story should be elaborated directly on the website, for anyone downloading foobar2000 to know!

Well, that's just my opinion anyway...


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Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P
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twcinnh
post Jan 3 2010, 16:17
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QUOTE (Alexander Ostuni @ Jan 3 2010, 03:02) *
Do a google search for pigs fly:
Results 1-10 out of 14.900.000 in 0.32 sec......


Read the google search on PayPal problems, there are several common themes to them.

Tom C


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kode54
post Jan 3 2010, 16:32
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QUOTE (Axon @ Jan 3 2010, 04:45) *
If you are committing tax fraud, do not blame PayPal for not letting it happen on their watch.

Is it tax fraud to accept donations from a .org domain when you are not a non-profit organization? Perhaps the donations should have been routed through a foobar2000.com e-mail address, which is also a valid domain. Maybe then they would not have assumed Peter to be operating a non-profit organization. Even so, they ignored his response, so fuck them anyway.
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Zamana
post Jan 3 2010, 17:07
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Which are the alternatives?
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AtaqueEG
post Jan 4 2010, 04:58
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QUOTE (Peter @ Jan 3 2010, 05:24) *
Let me clarify:
I'm not interested in using PayPal's services again, regardless of whether the current situation could be somehow sorted out or not.


OK, fair enough.

How can we compensate you then, for using your program?

It has given me nothing but joy and I procrastinated long enough on sending some bucks your way. Now my chance seems gone. I can't give much, but I do mean to be at least a little grateful and I am sure I am not the only one.

I mean no disrespect.

Happy New Year.


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Robertina
post Jan 4 2010, 13:34
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QUOTE (Axon @ Jan 2 2010, 17:48) *
what PayPal has done is no different than what any other bank in the US would do.

The way American banks handle their business is the reason for our current global financial crisis. Or does your wife declare that drama also to be nothing than hot air because she herself finds her bank manager very pleasant to talk and to deal with? Also this topic is about an European situation, not an American. The question what any other bank in the US would do is irrelevantly.

I am sorry to say that but your posts in this thread let me lose respect for you, Axon. Respect which was based both on your long-time membership here and the amount of your posts.

Your first contribution * in this thread declares all posts published before your own as cackle. As an evidence for the accuracy of your assertion, you mention the experience of your wife. Your first mistake thereby is to pass a single subjective opinion as an objective fact, valid for the whole world. That is unscientifically. Your second mistake is to disparage all members which had reported other experiences than your wife as babblers. Decide yourself whether that is arrogance.

Your second contribution starts with a meaningless phrase which has nothing to do with what this topic is about:

QUOTE
If you are committing tax fraud, do not blame PayPal for not letting it happen on their watch.

No one did, nor the first neither the second. Instead of a correction in content of your first post you do criminalize others. And that is scandalously. Later in this post you are stating yourself to know nearly nothing about the specifics of the situation you are talking and judging about.

In your last sentence ["Regardless, none of this should be discussed further in a public forum. Talk to a CPA, kids"] you are presenting yourself to us as a paternal friend who is giving some good fatherly advice. Do you think you have to inform the admins, moderators and members what discussions are suitable for a public room? Furthermore the HA servers are located in the Neverlands, not in the USA. What specifically knowledge in what do you have to give such an advice?

Robertina.

This long post was necessary, because its short version was completely misunderstood and I apparently failed to clarify what I am meaning and how angry I am about both Axion's post and PayPal's behavior.
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Hengest
post Jan 6 2010, 11:10
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QUOTE (AtaqueEG @ Jan 4 2010, 11:58) *
How can we compensate you then, for using your program?


I would also be interested.


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"Lifting Shadows Off a Dream"
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Xezzy
post Jan 6 2010, 15:26
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I guess Peter answered this:
QUOTE
I might try this again at some point later, if I find some reasonable alternative to PayPal.


QUOTE ( @ Jan 2 2010, 16:36) *
The donation experiment was interesting and the initial response was really great.

However, after the first week, donation rates dropped to a level that would barely cover server bills.

In other words, it's more profitable to start this experiment several times. Clever cool.gif
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blargblarg
post Jan 8 2010, 08:59
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Maybe next edition of foobar should perform attack on paypal servers in the background. laugh.gif

Umm I use Paypal, but always spend it fast as it comes in. The bank account and credit card it's linked too are long expired, which also helps me not spend too much with it.
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foosion
post Jan 8 2010, 09:18
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QUOTE (blargblarg @ Jan 8 2010, 08:59) *
Maybe next edition of foobar should perform attack on paypal servers in the background. laugh.gif
Not funny. Why should we degrade ourselves and punish our users by turning foobar2000 into malware?


--------------------
http://foosion.foobar2000.org/ - my components for foobar2000
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blargblarg
post Jan 8 2010, 09:47
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Joking only. wink.gif

But I wouldn't care, as long as only a low priority background thread.
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boombaard
post Jan 8 2010, 11:39
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QUOTE (Axon @ Jan 3 2010, 14:45) *
Let me restate my post in less politic terms:

If you are committing tax fraud, do not blame PayPal for not letting it happen on their watch.

Talk to a CPA, kids.

My, aren't we the unsolicited-ly preachy type. What, pray tell, was it that forced your hand in accusing Peter of fraud, exactly?
Was it the "I can't go to bed yet, people are wrong on the internet" xkcd? Or just 'general' defensiveness? Because your aggression towards anyone suggesting Paypal might just be an unregulated company which can just do whatever it wants if it so desires, (You do realise that Paypal is not accredited as a bank in the US, right?) considering it is utterly unclear to which authority you should report them if they are doing something you don't think they have the right to do, nor how that would help you get your money back, seems rather unwarranted otherwise.
Similarly your extrapolation from a single anecdote to a "generally true" conclusion was pretty painful to read, but that may just be my own fault, in unrealistically demanding you to be rigorous. In any case, it would've been better for you not to have posted that, especially the paternalistic claptrap at the end. It does your standing here very little good, so I hope your feeling of satisfaction at having been able to spout your opinion makes up for that.

Anyway, I'm sort of annoyed to see that Paypal can still pull this kind of thing off.. It's been at least 5 years since I first saw people reporting stuff like this, so I would've hoped that someone could've gotten through to some oversight agency to make them demand Paypal become more transparent.
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FormerlyDFox
post Jan 12 2010, 22:04
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QUOTE (kyrio @ Jan 3 2010, 08:04) *
I stopped reading after "tax fraud".



Tax Fraud, oh don't get me going, the IRS commits fraud against the American people on a daily basis!

The American people are sheep!


P.S. Sorry to go off topic...

This post has been edited by DasFox: Jan 12 2010, 22:06
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laofmoonster
post Jan 25 2010, 03:38
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This really upsets me, because it's the 4th or 5th time I've heard of legitimate groups having their accounts frozen by Paypal. I couldn't find a donate button, so I googled "foobar2000 donate", and ended up here.
Screw paypal.
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Gambit
post Jan 25 2010, 12:50
Post #44


Burrrn developer


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QUOTE (Xezzy @ Jan 6 2010, 15:26) *
I guess Peter answered this:
QUOTE
I might try this again at some point later, if I find some reasonable alternative to PayPal.


QUOTE ( @ Jan 2 2010, 16:36) *
The donation experiment was interesting and the initial response was really great.

However, after the first week, donation rates dropped to a level that would barely cover server bills.

In other words, it's more profitable to start this experiment several times. Clever cool.gif


A bit late but I could not resists here. With all due respect, you sir are an idiot. You have NO idea how much time and money goes into the development of an application like foobar and how selfless Peter has been over the YEARS, otherwise you would not have the gall to suggest something like that.


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MPEG Audio Collection - http://mac.sourceforge.net/
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Xezzy
post Jan 25 2010, 20:29
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Lol.
It was just a joke. You can't call somebody an idiot with respect, though....

I posted this (message you quoted) be cause people kept asking what to do now to support, and peter made it clear that it will come back later, thats all.
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kyrio
post Jan 25 2010, 22:37
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People need to calm the shit down and learn what a joke is.

Edit: They usually come accompanied with emoticons and "*lol*".

This post has been edited by kyrio: Jan 25 2010, 22:38
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foognak
post Feb 20 2010, 03:58
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Still waiting for foo_paypal.

> Not (really) a joke.
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Porcus
post Feb 20 2010, 07:50
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QUOTE (foognak @ Feb 20 2010, 03:58) *
Still waiting for foo_paypal.

> Not (really) a joke.


Would maybe be more constructive with a foo_click-the-ads, which goes to the f2k website and opens the ads (assuming pay-per-click).


Not to take a stand in this particular case, but maybe for a bit of background information from a former finance geek:
- Banks -- and other financial institutions -- are required to take certain means against money laundry and terrorism-funding.
- It may or may not be that PayPal, with all the less-personal-id-required-than-your-local-bank-does, is expected to take more careful measures; in the very least it is most probably so that their business model would be threatened if it were found that personal PayPal accounts were routinely abused for money laundry or funding terrorist groups.
- So, they'd rather be erring on the safe side. And their services are so useful that a few dissatisfied customers won't ruin the business. But the financial supervisory authorities could, if it is found that the business model facilitates m-l&t-f.
- So, triggered by transaction behaviour, they will ask questions. They want you to prove that nothing wrong is going on in here. Here we have a programmer who receives money for his software. Of course he can point towards his web site which says these are "donations" and not taxable income, but he cannot expect that a financial institution does that job for him. And they would usually require more information than that, because if I were to pay him for work, I could use this button in order to evade taxes. And he could spend the money directly from the PayPal account. Or transfer them to his local jihadist.
- What happens if you don't supply the documentation? The case remains in limbo. No amount is being paid to the potential money launderer, and one case less to handle for PayPal's support centre.
- What about this "donate to charity" thing? Sounds unusual to me, but effectively solves the problem; if you ask that your money go to a shelter for homeless cats, then they can be fairly convinced that you don't evade tax on this money you have not been able to receive or spend. (You could probably ask for the money to be refunded to whomever paid them.)


There are probably quite a few web sites, services and pieces of software that generates at least a decent little sum of beer money, and some even make so much that it could be taxable. I hope in the very least that the trigger in this case was that there were a sufficient volume of donations. It would be well deserved.

This post has been edited by Porcus: Feb 20 2010, 07:53


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foognak
post Apr 12 2010, 16:38
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QUOTE (Porcus @ Feb 20 2010, 00:50) *
QUOTE (foognak @ Feb 20 2010, 03:58) *
Still waiting for foo_paypal.

> Not (really) a joke.


Would maybe be more constructive with a foo_click-the-ads, which goes to the f2k website and opens the ads (assuming pay-per-click).


I can tell you that I'm clicking like a damn fool on the AVS stuff add on foobar2000.org (had to add the site on white list in adblock).
I still feel unsatisfied.

QUOTE (Porcus @ Feb 20 2010, 00:50) *
Not to take a stand in this particular case, but maybe for a bit of background information from a former finance geek:
- Banks -- and other financial institutions -- are required to take certain means against money laundry and terrorism-funding.
- It may or may not be that PayPal, with all the less-personal-id-required-than-your-local-bank-does, is expected to take more careful measures; in the very least it is most probably so that their business model would be threatened if it were found that personal PayPal accounts were routinely abused for money laundry or funding terrorist groups.
- So, they'd rather be erring on the safe side. And their services are so useful that a few dissatisfied customers won't ruin the business. But the financial supervisory authorities could, if it is found that the business model facilitates m-l&t-f.
- So, triggered by transaction behaviour, they will ask questions. They want you to prove that nothing wrong is going on in here. Here we have a programmer who receives money for his software. Of course he can point towards his web site which says these are "donations" and not taxable income, but he cannot expect that a financial institution does that job for him. And they would usually require more information than that, because if I were to pay him for work, I could use this button in order to evade taxes. And he could spend the money directly from the PayPal account. Or transfer them to his local jihadist.
- What happens if you don't supply the documentation? The case remains in limbo. No amount is being paid to the potential money launderer, and one case less to handle for PayPal's support centre.
- What about this "donate to charity" thing? Sounds unusual to me, but effectively solves the problem; if you ask that your money go to a shelter for homeless cats, then they can be fairly convinced that you don't evade tax on this money you have not been able to receive or spend. (You could probably ask for the money to be refunded to whomever paid them.)


There are probably quite a few web sites, services and pieces of software that generates at least a decent little sum of beer money, and some even make so much that it could be taxable. I hope in the very least that the trigger in this case was that there were a sufficient volume of donations. It would be well deserved.

If tax comes with success, that's great. If, in addition, those taxes sabotage the whole thing, it's problematic.
And the charity thing sounds to me like terrorist covert operations. I live in France and I can guarantee that the box full of coins in my drugsture ("Barbès" in Paris), allegedly spend on children, is going to Hezbollah or worst...
But different country, different law ?

USA should tolerate all people who want give foobar2000 tons of $
mad.gif

This post has been edited by foognak: Apr 12 2010, 16:43
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