IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Interesting Papers re temporal resolution
ncdrawl
post Jul 25 2009, 07:27
Post #1





Group: Members
Posts: 37
Joined: 5-October 08
Member No.: 59436



http://www.physics.sc.edu/kunchur/Acoustics-papers.htm

http://www.physics.sc.edu/kunchur/papers/FAQs.pdf
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
benski
post Aug 3 2009, 20:10
Post #2


Winamp Developer


Group: Developer
Posts: 670
Joined: 17-July 05
From: Brooklyn, NY
Member No.: 23375



I need to do further reading to do a full refutation, but I think I figured out where the problem is right.

Dr Kunchur shows that humans can discern temporal resolution down to 5 microseconds. I mostly agree with this - it's a fundamental part of pitch perception. Where he makes the mistake is assuming that 44,100Hz sampling rate only has a temporal resolution of 22 microseconds. This is patently false. 44100Hz audio has far more temporal resolution than this, due to the antialiasing filter. If you model the impulse response function of the antialiasing function as a sinc wave, small (<20microseconds) delays in an impulse event will correspond to vastly different outputs from the sinc() function. If the input impulse is perfectly aligned, the sinc() output will give 1 followed by an infinite amount of zeroes, but a half-sample (11 microsecond) delay will give 2/PI followed by a series of decaying values. The reconstruction filter will output the original half-sample delayed signal, but in bandlimited form. The half-second delay on the impulse will still be present on the output signal.

This post has been edited by benski: Aug 3 2009, 20:11
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
benski
post Aug 3 2009, 20:24
Post #3


Winamp Developer


Group: Developer
Posts: 670
Joined: 17-July 05
From: Brooklyn, NY
Member No.: 23375



Also, for his FAQ example of two peaks separated by 5 microseconds, my statement still holds true. The two peaks will "ring" the anti-alias filter in such a way that those two peaks still have an impact into the digital sampling (and on the eventual post-reconstruction-filter output). The waveform will look different and the high frequency spectra will be lost but the "information" of the two separate peaks will remain in the final analog output.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- ncdrawl   Interesting Papers re temporal resolution   Jul 25 2009, 07:27
- - rpp3po   I'm not sure wether they have actually tested ...   Jul 25 2009, 13:17
- - Ethan Winer   Nice to see this topic here where it can be discus...   Jul 25 2009, 18:26
- - hellokeith   from the link: QUOTE Our recent behavioral studies...   Jul 25 2009, 20:39
|- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (hellokeith @ Jul 25 2009, 21:39) D...   Jul 25 2009, 22:09
||- - rpp3po   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Jul 25 2009, 23:09)...   Jul 25 2009, 22:28
||- - Woodinville   QUOTE (rpp3po @ Jul 25 2009, 14:28) Well,...   Jul 28 2009, 09:27
|- - John_Siau   From the first paragraph at: www.physics.sc.edu/ku...   Jul 31 2009, 19:16
|- - andy_c   QUOTE (John_Siau @ Jul 31 2009, 12:16) Th...   Jul 31 2009, 21:30
- - hellokeith   Well after reading through the first 3 PDF's a...   Jul 26 2009, 01:24
- - Axon   Don't even bother using a square wave generato...   Jul 28 2009, 02:55
|- - rpp3po   Yes, I asked myself why Adobe would even include s...   Jul 28 2009, 03:06
- - Mike Giacomelli   I only skimmed the paper, but IIRC tried a digital...   Jul 28 2009, 03:31
- - Canar   Now the WAV files won't load in foobar2000... ...   Jul 28 2009, 03:51
|- - rpp3po   QUOTE (Canar @ Jul 28 2009, 04:51) These ...   Jul 28 2009, 11:37
|- - lvqcl   QUOTE (rpp3po @ Jul 28 2009, 14:37) Could...   Jul 28 2009, 12:52
|- - Mike Giacomelli   QUOTE (rpp3po @ Jul 28 2009, 06:37) Could...   Jul 28 2009, 15:58
- - Nick.C   Why not just just create a 7.35kHz square wave ...   Jul 28 2009, 13:13
|- - benski   QUOTE (Nick.C @ Jul 28 2009, 08:13) Why n...   Jul 31 2009, 15:39
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (benski @ Jul 31 2009, 15:39) QUOTE...   Jul 31 2009, 16:33
|- - benski   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jul 31 2009, 11:33) QU...   Jul 31 2009, 16:39
- - Axon   Because that places unacceptable restrictions on t...   Jul 28 2009, 16:12
- - Canar   If I may grossly oversimplify your argument Axon, ...   Jul 28 2009, 19:46
|- - Axon   QUOTE (Canar @ Jul 28 2009, 13:46) If I m...   Jul 28 2009, 20:14
||- - andy_c   I'd like to add a few comments regarding the ...   Jul 29 2009, 16:52
||- - Axon   QUOTE (andy_c @ Jul 29 2009, 10:52) I...   Jul 29 2009, 17:11
||- - andy_c   QUOTE (Axon @ Jul 29 2009, 10:11) Well, g...   Jul 29 2009, 17:27
|- - Mike Giacomelli   QUOTE (Canar @ Jul 28 2009, 14:46) As an ...   Jul 28 2009, 21:08
|- - NullC   QUOTE (Mike Giacomelli @ Jul 28 2009, 12...   Jul 29 2009, 05:48
|- - Mike Giacomelli   QUOTE (NullC @ Jul 29 2009, 00:48) QUOTE ...   Jul 29 2009, 16:19
- - Axon   So, on that note.... an off topic comment. I just ...   Jul 29 2009, 17:01
|- - Canar   QUOTE (Axon @ Jul 29 2009, 09:01) So, on ...   Jul 29 2009, 18:18
- - krabapple   It may well be that Dr. Kunchur's audio work i...   Jul 29 2009, 17:04
- - kode54   Where did you come up with that 1.45GHz figure? Th...   Jul 29 2009, 20:22
- - Axon   Well, I'm thinking more specifically of the th...   Jul 29 2009, 20:41
- - Audible!   QUOTE (ncdrawl @ Jul 30 2009, 23:07) QUOT...   Jul 31 2009, 08:36
- - 2Bdecided   Yes, I see it now (having tried it!), it's...   Jul 31 2009, 17:13
- - John_Siau   From the summary paragraph in "Audibility of ...   Jul 31 2009, 19:37
|- - Axon   QUOTE (John_Siau @ Jul 31 2009, 13:37) Fr...   Jul 31 2009, 21:28
|- - John_Siau   QUOTE (Axon @ Jul 31 2009, 16:28) That se...   Jul 31 2009, 22:15
|- - WernerO   QUOTE (Axon @ Jul 31 2009, 21:28) Dr. Kun...   Aug 1 2009, 06:46
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Axon @ Jul 31 2009, 21:28) That se...   Aug 1 2009, 08:24
|- - rpp3po   I'm just coming back from vacation. Thanks for...   Aug 2 2009, 17:42
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (rpp3po @ Aug 2 2009, 12:42) But un...   Aug 3 2009, 01:24
|- - rpp3po   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Aug 3 2009, 02...   Aug 3 2009, 01:42
|- - ncdrawl   QUOTE (rpp3po @ Aug 2 2009, 20:42) QUOTE ...   Aug 3 2009, 04:59
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (ncdrawl @ Aug 2 2009, 23:59) QUOTE...   Aug 3 2009, 07:57
|- - WernerO   QUOTE (ncdrawl @ Aug 3 2009, 04:59) Dr. K...   Aug 3 2009, 08:52
||- - Axon   QUOTE (WernerO @ Aug 3 2009, 02:52) QUOTE...   Aug 3 2009, 19:02
|||- - honestguv   QUOTE (Axon @ Aug 3 2009, 20:02) BTW, I f...   Aug 3 2009, 19:35
||- - ncdrawl   QUOTE (WernerO @ Aug 3 2009, 03:52) we do...   Aug 8 2009, 00:03
|- - honestguv   > Dr. Kunchur will be posting confutations in f...   Aug 3 2009, 08:54
|- - andy_c   Regarding my earlier post about the lack of second...   Aug 3 2009, 17:34
- - benski   I need to do further reading to do a full refutati...   Aug 3 2009, 20:10
|- - benski   Also, for his FAQ example of two peaks separated b...   Aug 3 2009, 20:24
|- - WernerO   QUOTE (benski @ Aug 3 2009, 21:24) two pe...   Aug 3 2009, 20:56
||- - Axon   QUOTE (WernerO @ Aug 3 2009, 14:56) QUOTE...   Aug 3 2009, 21:04
||- - benski   QUOTE (WernerO @ Aug 3 2009, 15:56) QUOTE...   Aug 3 2009, 21:22
|||- - WernerO   QUOTE (benski @ Aug 3 2009, 22:22) Please...   Aug 4 2009, 08:11
|||- - benski   QUOTE (WernerO @ Aug 4 2009, 03:11) QUOTE...   Aug 4 2009, 14:34
||- - honestguv   QUOTE (WernerO @ Aug 3 2009, 21:56) But t...   Aug 3 2009, 21:47
||- - benski   QUOTE (honestguv @ Aug 3 2009, 16:47) QUO...   Aug 3 2009, 22:04
||- - honestguv   QUOTE (benski @ Aug 3 2009, 23:04) They a...   Aug 3 2009, 22:49
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (benski @ Aug 3 2009, 20:24) Also, ...   Aug 3 2009, 22:05
- - Canar   I just had a random thought about this and I wante...   Aug 4 2009, 02:41
|- - andy_c   Well, the 4.7us time constant does decrease the le...   Aug 4 2009, 02:57
|- - andy_c   Here's another thing I noticed in his test app...   Aug 4 2009, 14:23
||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (andy_c @ Aug 4 2009, 09:23) Here...   Aug 13 2009, 12:56
|- - Pio2001   Hello, I've just read the first and third arti...   Apr 18 2010, 23:07
|- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Apr 19 2010, 00:07) Ther...   Apr 18 2010, 23:56
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Apr 18 2010, 18:07) QUOT...   Apr 19 2010, 14:49
- - ultrasonic   QUOTE (rpp3po @ Aug 3 2009, 02:42) QUOTE ...   Jan 2 2010, 05:09
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (ultrasonic @ Jan 1 2010, 20:09) QU...   Jan 2 2010, 05:28
||- - ultrasonic   QUOTE (Woodinville @ Jan 2 2010, 06:28) Q...   Jan 2 2010, 05:41
||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (ultrasonic @ Jan 1 2010, 23:41) QU...   Jan 2 2010, 06:15
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (ultrasonic @ Jan 1 2010, 23:09) QU...   Jan 2 2010, 06:01
|- - ultrasonic   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jan 2 2010, 07...   Jan 2 2010, 06:37
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (ultrasonic @ Jan 2 2010, 00:37) QU...   Jan 2 2010, 06:52
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (ultrasonic @ Jan 1 2010, 21:37) Op...   Jan 2 2010, 10:29
||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Woodinville @ Jan 2 2010, 04:29) B...   Jan 2 2010, 13:24
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (ultrasonic @ Jan 2 2010, 00:37) Op...   Jan 3 2010, 06:43
- - Woodinville   It is interesting to note that now the same people...   Jun 15 2010, 19:31
- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Woodinville @ Jun 15 2010, 14:31) ...   Jun 16 2010, 11:09
- - Paulhoff   QUOTE (Woodinville @ Jun 15 2010, 14:31) ...   Jun 16 2010, 12:33
2 Pages V   1 2 >


Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 23rd October 2014 - 19:24