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How Good Can Vinyl Sound?, Anyone got some sample clips?
sshd
post May 15 2009, 14:47
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I do not own a turntable and have never heard the "great vinyl sound" coming from a good turntable handled correctly. I am however sligltly interested in purchasing one, as there are some interesting albums out there unavailable on CD.

Recently I found a small clip on the net: A lossless needledrop of Santana's debut album on the MFSL label. Since I own the CD on same label I had something to compare with: I was very disappointed with the needle drop. There were no pops or clicks, but the sound was dead.

Can anyone provide some sample clips of very good needle drops?

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Cavaille
post Jan 26 2010, 14:31
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QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jan 26 2010, 14:17) *
Basically these sound great, but I think there's something very strange in the higher frequencies on some of them. I see part of the problem is a ~15kHz tone on some of the LPs - but there's also an 18kHz resonance or harmonic or something on the first sample, and other strange (though inaudible) things on the others e.g. strong ultrasonic tones on Gremlins, weak 17kHz on Enya, etc.

It could all be on the original recordings, but on the ones I can hear, it sounds weird to me. It makes my ears ring.

I suspect that you're getting far more information from these LPs than was ever intended! wink.gif e.g. on the Enya one, you can clearly see it was mastered from a 44.1kHz digital recording, because there's nothing above 22kHz.


Apart from this(!), I think your transfers are stunningly good.


EDIT: Which Algorithmix declicker did you use? Or was it mostly iZotope RX Advanced?? (Which costs more than most turntables!)

Cheers,
David.
Thank you very much. I know about these strange high tones. Most of these tone can be found on the originals also (especially with the track from Enya). And the mastering for the Enya track was only partially digital: the Uilleann pipe was recorded analogue. You canīt see that anymore but I saw it before I applied the RIAA frequency curve. But I have to admit that this could also be some distortion introduced by the cartridge. In case of the Ofra Haza track the high tone was so very strong that I used a notch filter to lower it. Quite successfully, I might add.

Strange that you can hear these tones at all. I tested the tracks with several playback equipment (they had to sound good on every one of them) and I couldnīt hear them, not even with my Sennheiser HD-600 - and I can hear up to 19 kHz. Your hearing must be fantastic, I envy you. Or, it could be that the compression of the AAC codec kicks in and disturbs the tones when transients are encoded.

I also have to say that the E-MU 0202 wasnīt completely free from tones itself. I still did not find the reason. I used the Algorithmix ScratchFree for the automated declicking & iZotope RX for manual declicking (on distorted s-consonants I used spectral editing because Algorithmix introduced some noise-like artifacts during declicking)

... and yes, it is an expensive hobby. wink.gif

If someone is interested... here is the mastering technique I suspect that was used which could be observed very good before applying RIAA:

HIStory, Michael Jackson (rest his soul): digital mastering with 48 kHz
Im Nin' Alu, Ofra Haza: partially digital
Theresa, Jan Hammer: digital
Little Lady, Aneka: analogue
Miles Away, Madonna: seems to be partially digital (some synths reach up to 30 kHz)
Gremlins, Jerry Goldsmith: orchestra: digital. synths: analogue
Smaointe..., Enya: partially digital, Uilleann pipe reaches up to 33 kHz
The Empire strikes back, John Williams: analogue
Viva La Felicita, De-Phazz: digital
Woman in Love, Barbra Streisand: analogue

This post has been edited by Cavaille: Jan 26 2010, 14:43


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Posts in this topic
- sshd   How Good Can Vinyl Sound?   May 15 2009, 14:47
- - 2Bdecided   See this thread for recent discussion on this topi...   May 15 2009, 16:02
- - bryant   http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showt...   May 15 2009, 17:39
- - DVDdoug   QUOTE I do not own a turntable and have never hear...   May 15 2009, 17:54
- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (sshd @ May 15 2009, 09:47) I do no...   May 15 2009, 19:51
|- - Glenn Gundlach   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ May 15 2009, 10...   May 15 2009, 21:03
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Glenn Gundlach @ May 15 2009, 16:0...   May 15 2009, 21:45
- - krabapple   First, all digital ends up as 'analog sound...   May 15 2009, 21:07
|- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (krabapple @ May 15 2009, 22:07) Fi...   May 15 2009, 22:23
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ May 15 2009, 17:23)...   May 15 2009, 22:36
||- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ May 15 2009, 23...   May 15 2009, 23:02
||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ May 15 2009, 18:02)...   May 15 2009, 23:23
|||- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ May 16 2009, 00...   May 15 2009, 23:48
|||- - greynol   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ May 15 2009, 15:48)...   May 16 2009, 00:02
|||- - krabapple   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ May 15 2009, 18:48)...   May 16 2009, 00:17
|||- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (krabapple @ May 16 2009, 01:17) No...   May 16 2009, 00:26
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ May 15 2009, 23:02)...   May 18 2009, 11:13
|||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ May 18 2009, 06:13) QU...   May 18 2009, 16:35
||- - 2Bdecided   delete duplicate post   May 18 2009, 11:13
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ May 15 2009, 17:23)...   May 16 2009, 00:03
|- - cliveb   QUOTE (krabapple @ May 16 2009, 00:03) Ju...   May 16 2009, 09:03
- - boondocks   As someone that grew up with vinyl, who had 3 copi...   May 15 2009, 22:09
- - Axon   Many people get that "great vinyl sound...   May 15 2009, 22:11
|- - boondocks   QUOTE (Axon @ May 15 2009, 17:11) Many pe...   May 16 2009, 22:27
- - greynol   I think the implication is that the information ab...   May 16 2009, 00:08
|- - WonderSlug   QUOTE (greynol @ May 15 2009, 16:08) I th...   May 16 2009, 00:26
- - krabapple   I looked at spectra pf my complete repertoire of s...   May 16 2009, 08:10
|- - Alex B   QUOTE (krabapple @ May 16 2009, 10:10) .....   May 16 2009, 15:25
- - C.R.Helmrich   Thanks a lot for the uploads, krabapple! Yes, ...   May 16 2009, 14:00
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ May 16 2009, 09:00)...   May 16 2009, 17:21
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (krabapple @ May 16 2009, 12:21) I ...   May 16 2009, 17:50
||- - krabapple   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ May 16 2009, 12...   May 16 2009, 18:19
|- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (krabapple @ May 16 2009, 18:21) I ...   May 16 2009, 19:33
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ May 16 2009, 14:33)...   May 18 2009, 05:57
|- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (krabapple @ May 18 2009, 06:57) ht...   May 18 2009, 21:49
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ May 18 2009, 16:49)...   May 19 2009, 00:30
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (krabapple @ May 18 2009, 19:30) Th...   May 19 2009, 03:24
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ May 18 2009, 22...   May 19 2009, 21:00
- - Soap   I fricking hate rapidshare and I doubt I am alone....   May 16 2009, 14:17
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (Soap @ May 16 2009, 09:17) I frick...   May 16 2009, 18:09
- - lvqcl   QUOTE (krabapple)What might also be interesting is...   May 19 2009, 21:47
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (lvqcl @ May 19 2009, 16:47) QUOTE ...   May 19 2009, 22:01
|- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ May 19 2009, 23...   May 19 2009, 22:06
- - krabapple   Ah! I guess I was having a past-life memory. ...   May 20 2009, 05:12
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (krabapple @ May 20 2009, 00:12) Ah...   May 20 2009, 11:04
- - audioapprentice   sshd: My surviving turntable is a p-mount, factor...   Jun 24 2009, 03:39
- - WmAx   A very high pitch stable table with a low resonanc...   Jun 25 2009, 01:16
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (WmAx @ Jun 24 2009, 20:16) A very ...   Jun 26 2009, 14:58
|- - WmAx   QUOTE (WmAx @ Jun 24 2009, 20:16) A very ...   Jun 27 2009, 09:01
- - greynol   It's sort of the spirit of this thread to post...   Jun 26 2009, 16:23
- - 2Bdecided   If you meant "during the music", then I ...   Jun 27 2009, 10:09
- - Mescalito   I have a Linn Sondek LP12/Ittok/Troika/Lingo/Linto...   Jan 19 2010, 15:57
- - Canar   I await your uploads with eager anticipation.   Jan 19 2010, 16:26
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Canar @ Jan 19 2010, 10:26) I awai...   Jan 25 2010, 13:39
|- - Mescalito   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jan 25 2010, 12...   Jan 26 2010, 09:51
- - Cavaille   I wonder if I also can upload something. To enter...   Jan 26 2010, 12:20
- - RonaldDumsfeld   ^^ Yes please. especially if you have some well kn...   Jan 26 2010, 12:50
|- - Tony T   I recently converted my vinyl to Flac (wav) and wo...   Jan 26 2010, 14:56
- - Cavaille   So, here they are. Some of this music is mainstre...   Jan 26 2010, 14:07
|- - jamie_P84   QUOTE (Cavaille @ Jan 26 2010, 13:07) So,...   Feb 3 2010, 21:47
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Feb 3 2010, 15:47) The...   Feb 3 2010, 22:25
|- - cliveb   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Feb 3 2010, 21...   Feb 4 2010, 09:28
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (cliveb @ Feb 4 2010, 04:28) QUOTE ...   Jun 7 2010, 15:39
- - 2Bdecided   With the caveat that I have a cold, and I don...   Jan 26 2010, 14:17
- - Cavaille   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jan 26 2010, 14:17) Ba...   Jan 26 2010, 14:31
- - Canar   I've got some samples to create and publish he...   Jan 26 2010, 15:06
|- - Cavaille   QUOTE (Canar @ Jan 26 2010, 15:06) I...   Jan 26 2010, 15:41
- - Canar   Here is the list of specifications for my cartridg...   Jan 26 2010, 16:18
|- - DonP   QUOTE (Canar @ Jan 26 2010, 10:18) Here i...   Jan 26 2010, 16:32
|- - pdq   QUOTE (Canar @ Jan 26 2010, 11:18) Credit...   Jan 26 2010, 18:30
- - Canar   Thanks for the info, DonP. I don't know this s...   Jan 26 2010, 16:36
- - Cavaille   Thank you for the explanation, Canar. But Iīm afra...   Jan 26 2010, 16:36
- - Fedot L   QUOTE (cliveb @ May 16 2009, 09:03) QUOTE...   Jan 26 2010, 23:01
- - Fedot L   QUOTE (Cavaille @ Jan 26 2010, 13:07) So,...   Jan 26 2010, 23:32
- - Cavaille   QUOTE (Fedot L @ Jan 26 2010, 23:32) QUOT...   Jan 27 2010, 06:28
- - Cavaille   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Feb 3 2010, 21:47) Des...   Feb 4 2010, 02:13
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Cavaille @ Feb 4 2010, 01:13) QUOT...   Feb 4 2010, 10:24
- - Cavaille   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Feb 4 2010, 10:24) QUO...   Feb 4 2010, 15:04
- - 2Bdecided   Here you go: /?sharekey=605ee2b5f85656f5e62ea590d...   Feb 4 2010, 15:34
- - Canar   Based on this incident, we have upped the user sto...   Feb 4 2010, 17:03
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Canar @ Feb 4 2010, 16:03) Based o...   Feb 4 2010, 18:03
- - Cavaille   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Feb 4 2010, 15:34) Her...   Feb 5 2010, 04:51
- - yamfox   This good: Link That's my vinyl rip, with a us...   Jun 5 2010, 01:06
|- - Glenn Gundlach   QUOTE (yamfox @ Jun 4 2010, 16:06) This g...   Jun 7 2010, 18:20
|- - doctorcilantro   Here is a 24/192 sample. And here is a 96kHz vers...   Sep 1 2010, 22:16
|- - Canar   QUOTE (doctorcilantro @ Sep 1 2010, 16:16...   Sep 2 2010, 00:10
||- - doctorcilantro   QUOTE (Canar @ Sep 2 2010, 01:10) QUOTE (...   Sep 2 2010, 00:16
|||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (doctorcilantro @ Sep 2 2010, 00:16...   Sep 2 2010, 09:56
||- - doctorcilantro   QUOTE (Canar @ Sep 2 2010, 01:10) QUOTE (...   Sep 2 2010, 01:18
||- - Canar   QUOTE (doctorcilantro @ Sep 1 2010, 19:18...   Sep 2 2010, 02:10
|||- - doctorcilantro   QUOTE (Canar @ Sep 2 2010, 03:10) QUOTE (...   Sep 2 2010, 04:58
||- - greynol   QUOTE (doctorcilantro @ Sep 1 2010, 17:18...   Sep 2 2010, 03:39
|||- - doctorcilantro   QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 2 2010, 04:39) QUOTE...   Sep 2 2010, 04:56
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (doctorcilantro @ Sep 2 2010, 01:18...   Sep 2 2010, 09:38
||- - doctorcilantro   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Sep 2 2010, 10:38) QUO...   Sep 2 2010, 11:21
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (doctorcilantro @ Sep 1 2010, 17:16...   Sep 2 2010, 04:43
|- - doctorcilantro   QUOTE (krabapple @ Sep 2 2010, 05:43) QUO...   Sep 2 2010, 04:53
- - greynol   I can understand the 8 extra bits headroom and pro...   Sep 1 2010, 22:28
- - doctorcilantro   QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 1 2010, 23:28) I can...   Sep 2 2010, 00:20
- - Canar   QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 1 2010, 16:28) Would...   Sep 2 2010, 00:23
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