Article: Why We Need Audiophiles, The subjective perspective
Article: Why We Need Audiophiles, The subjective perspective
Apr 16 2009, 14:55
Joined: 29-February 08
Member No.: 51676
I'm interested in what the HA community thinks about this new Gizmodo article, or blog, about Michael Fremer, an audio reviewer from Stereophile, which clearly goes completely against the grain around here. For instance:
"We play my solid 256kbps VBR MP3 of "Heroes" off my iPod; it sounds like shit. Free of pops and crackles, yes, but completely lifeless, flat in every way. This is the detail that matters: Audiophiles are basically synesthesiacs. They "see" music in three-dimensional visual space. You close your eyes in Fremer's chair, and you can perceive a detailed 3D matrix of sound, with each element occupying its own special space in the air. It's crazy and I've never experienced anything like it." ~ Why we need audiophiles
Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence~Potter Stewart
Apr 17 2009, 21:14
Joined: 24-December 08
Member No.: 64805
@2Bdecided ,Thanks you for bringing some much needed finer angles to this discussion, thanks.
Following Floyd Toole, I'd say it really works when the soundstage is apparently divorced from the speakers -- that is, there is wide 'apparent source width' extending *beyond* the speakers, .... finally, there is also front-to back depth in the placement of instruments.
With a *two channel* system I've only ever experienced something like this in near-field listening...though the soundstage width was compromised.
That's interesting , I still could not figure what hat you were wearing as some your posts suggested you read some of the studies about analog gear & subscribed to the findings , but then you go & say things like Fuck Fremer.. dbags etc ..
Feel free to ignore that tip, but for those that might read it & try to get the effect happenning on their system, I find it quite interesting you experienced something like this in near field listening, as the effect does not materialize without some distance from the speakers to your ears, for bass to flesh out & create a good weighty Center.
for all of the 'technical' posts about vinyl ... right ..
I am far from a vinyl expert, but saying stuff like
.." a $350,000 system is wasted on a Record player as a source".... O-K.
All I can say is : Please do your homework & read some measurements & analysis about what's possible with vinyl & Tape, then reconsider your statements.
People with iPods using the stock earbuds represent the majority market here (not here in hydrogenaudio but the general audio community). It doesn't mean they are right, it just means they are the majority.
Again, what is wrong with lossy encoding? There are many people throughout the world (and many respected members here) who cannot properly differentiate between lossy files and lossless ones. What is so wrong with that?
I would hate to know what you think of people who actually pay for lossy music.
Hmm looks like I did not did not get my point across as well as I hoped .
Wrong is a big Word.
My view of lossy audio is not in the wrong or right perspective per se.
But, the misuse & promotion of lossy audio as a worthy Product, is indeed wrong.
I have been working with & around musicians all my life.
There's nothing in common with all of them, apart from being musicians of course.
Many musicians I have met , did not give a Rat's ass about their playback system.
But they had some fine excuses.
Some just are busy making it & hearing the real thing all the time,
they can see quite well for their reference use , even through a dirty window,
& some have all their money spent on their music performing gear.
But that changes, when they start recording music.
Even the Most Lo Fi guys I have met ,do realize that some effort has to be made,
to get the recording right.
I can tell you I have seen many people go from zero interest in it ,
to go all out & move from studio to studio , recording the same song,
to get something else in the sound.
Can you see where Im going with this ?
You see, Now they cared.
How many of you have sat with someone downloading some bad Lame mp3 rip of his own album, remembering the sound he had in the mixing stage, how disappointed he was from the mastering stage, & then seeing the horror in his eyes when he actually dares to play it.
You know what the saddest part is ? Some people will only know his song sounding like That.
Lossy Audio , as a downsized pointer to the real thing , I have no problem with.
I even signed up to help the LossyWav project.
Fm Radio is one great example, it can point you all day long to everything.
for some it was all that was needed, I know.
But it was never the real thing , never something you could own, buy, or god forbid , transcode.
It has served the Real product.
It has served the Real Experience.
Some views expressed here (I am disappointed to say), may lead the inexperienced music lover, that it is OK, if that's all he will ever know.
If Kids (or adults too actually .. )
want to claim something is Indistinguishable from the real thing- they must KNOW the real thing.
it does NOT mean you can claim so without a long & serious affair with the Real thing.
So I Do not have $4000 Power cables, & most of my LPs are scratched to death & never get played anymore.
& Yes ,Id LOVE to have a $350,000 System .. who wouldn't ?
Regardless , I Do believe that Itunes ( or anyone else !) saying buy the Lossy Album - & your'e done ! You Got the album ! , is an Insult to both their clients , & additional spit in the face of the musicians that make them.
When what should have been a low end marketing tool, becomes the Reference Product,
then Yes, We , Music lovers, at least here at Hydrogen , should have a problem with it.
This post has been edited by B0RK: Apr 17 2009, 21:17
Apr 17 2009, 21:53
Joined: 11-February 03
Member No.: 4961
A post's length often inversely correlates with the lack of sufficient data to backup ones claims. There is no scientifically valid reason to turn up one's nose at modern lossy encoders (quality wise).
But quality isn't everything. Alone knowing that bits were stolen from your source (in the believe that you cannot hear them anyway) may seriously harm an audiophile's listening experience. After having spent quite some time over the years with some of the very rare problem samples I know this feeling, you can have it without believing that it is justified.
This post has been edited by rpp3po: Apr 17 2009, 23:39
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