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mp3s getting corrupt randomly
EvilOverlord
post Mar 17 2009, 09:59
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Hey,
I'm facing an annoying problem, it started off as a minor issue a 1-2 months back, but now is EXTREMELY annoying... :/
I'll try to cover it here in as much detail as possible, please Help!

Please dl this link --> http://rapidshare.com/files/210200555/hydrogen.zip.html
Vid 1&2 show the problems I'm facing (I did install fraps but couldnt figure out the damn recorder so shot them with my phone sad.gif

Vid1: check the left hand side of winamp equaliser, the red light keeps glowing randonly (afaik that only happens during the end of a track)
Also I just played the top track, all the skipping & erratic playback is the problem, The Corrs folder has all tracks in it but when I run EncSpot it only shows 4-5 tracks in the folder (http://imagebin.org/41614) although the folder actually has 15 or so tracks. Same with folder in which I keep singles, there are too many mp3s marked as bad by EncSpot for my comfort. When I run the corrs mp3s in wmp I get the error ďthe file you are trying to play has an extension (mp3) that does not match the file formatĒ on pressing yes, it gives WMP cannot play the file

Vid2: This is also happening in random mp3files, you canít seek the timeline after 50% or so of the mp3.
These mp3s when run in WMP give the same problem as in winamp, i.e. canít seek beyond roughly 50% of the file.

These mp3s are just random examples, this started about a month back & now I just keep discovering new messed up files everyday crying.gif

I read somewhere there was a MS bug that messes up mp3s, is this it?

Also in the zip is a report by System Information for Windows (http://www.gtopala.com/)
Lemme know if I need to upload some other log as well

Hereís my take on it so far:
1. Clearing the cache/all temp files in Vista
2. Increasing the Directsound buffer in Winamp to maximum (I NEVER touch that, idk how to change system directsound buffer settings)
3. The disk is Not fragmented, O&O defrag says 7% fragmentation
4. Ran Scandisk/diskcheck but didnít help/no errors found.
5. All mp3s are located in my Sata 500 seagate disc & NEVER moved around.
6. I use WMP11 for standalone playback & Winamp for playlist playback
7. Only dbpoweramp & Tag&Rename is installed for tag editing
8. DX10 installed
9. Tried uninstalling the only dsp winamp plugin installed (DFX 8)
10. Tried stopping World Community Grid (its cpu-intensive as I run it 24/7 at 100% cpu usage)

I donít want to reinstall Window & theres no way I can get rebuild my MP3 collection, was made over the years  & this is the first time ever Iím experiencing this problem.

Admin: First post, please move into the correct section if required. smile.gif

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Synthetic Soul
post Mar 17 2009, 10:08
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QUOTE (EvilOverlord @ Mar 17 2009, 08:59) *
I read somewhere there was a MS bug that messes up mp3s, is this it?
You may be thinking about the trojan discussed here:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=64754

QUOTE (EvilOverlord @ Mar 17 2009, 08:59) *
Admin: First post, please move into the correct section if required. smile.gif
Gee, thanks! happy.gif I will move it from MP3 Tech, as it is not a technical question.


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evereux
post Mar 17 2009, 10:11
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Seems to me that your hard drive is slowly failing? I take it you have back-ups ...


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odyssey
post Mar 17 2009, 11:01
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QUOTE (evereux @ Mar 17 2009, 10:11) *
Seems to me that your hard drive is slowly failing? I take it you have back-ups ...

No, this is not a sign of a harddrive failing. Windows keep an MFT record of all existing files on the drive. This is obviously being tampered with or getting corrupt, but I disbelieve that it's caused by drive failure. Windows (and drives possebly too) checks for CRC during reading, and if it fails it will throw an error.

Also it's not a sign of RAM or CPU failing, as Windows itself would suffer severely in that case.

Since this appearently only happens to mp3-files, I would do an excessive test for trojans/viruses from a safe-environment (use another pc/installation and boot from another drive, then throw in the possebly infected drive to scan it using multiple different av's. I'd recommend NOD32, Avast, AVG). Also test if the files are working okay from such environment (maybe also try foobar2000 as it has a better console log of possible mp3-failures).

QUOTE
I donít want to reinstall Window
Oh I really think you do...

I would definately reinstall Windows as the first thing to rule out any other problems. Remember that you might even carry a rare virus/trojan, so a reinstall would be the only proper solution. If files are comepletely "dissappearing" on the harddrive, I'd recommend that you do not write anything to the disk and try some recovering programs. However, I wouldn't hold my breath as it seem that the files are getting tampered on purpose, and no recovery program (that I know of) are able to repair partly corrupted files.

Besides that, maybe some tagging program or other mp3-tampering program you have been using, could maybe have been failing and causing your mp3's going corrupt.

This post has been edited by odyssey: Mar 17 2009, 11:35


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rpp3po
post Mar 17 2009, 11:43
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QUOTE (odyssey @ Mar 17 2009, 11:01) *
No, this is not a sign of a harddrive failing. Windows keep an MFT record of all existing files on the drive. This is obviously being tampered with or getting corrupt, but I disbelieve that it's caused by drive failure. Windows (and drives possebly too) checks for CRC during reading, and if it fails it will throw an error.


No, both of Windows' filesystems NTFS and FAT don't have CRC checking capability. They don't even record CRCs. In fact, most filesystems don't, only very advanced ones like Solaris' ZFS. Windows having a MFT doesn't have anything to do with it either. Approaching hard drive failure is the most probable cause.
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Slipstreem
post Mar 17 2009, 12:01
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I'm inclined to agree with C-3PO above.

Although it's not a cast-iron guarantee that your problem is the same as mine was, I had exactly the same kind of problems with an externally housed Seagate 500GB SATA drive last year. The symptoms were the same and no amount of error-checking of the drive itself revealed anything. After just two days of slightly odd behaviour, the drive went totally tits-up and completely vanished as far as Windows was concerned.

I had backups of almost everything so the failure wasn't a disaster as such, but it was still damned annoying, especially when I found out that the 5-year Seagate warranty had been reduced to a 1-year warranty as the drive was in a LaCie caddy and, therefore, classified as OEM rather than retail. You guessed it. It was just outside the 1-year warranty. I was gutted!

You may not have a failing hard drive, but just incase, make backups of everything that's still salvageable if you don't have backups already. smile.gif

Cheers, Slipstreem. cool.gif

This post has been edited by Slipstreem: Mar 17 2009, 12:03
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EvilOverlord
post Mar 17 2009, 12:13
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Seagate sata500 is at max a year old
Yes, it is heavily used constantly (torrents) but I’ve never faced any problems with Seagate. I’ve had my IDE Seagate 80 for several years now, being put under heavy stress 24/7, never crashed.

Also files are’t disappearing (as far as I’m aware), but MP3s getting corrupt.

Heres a log from Diskcheckup (dunno how accurate, just googled)
http://pastebin.com/f1d59d1f3

anyone recommend a good Disk failure/info app?
Also Diskcheckup shows error in SMART status of ST500, but I’ve always had problems with Smart info of hdds afaik
Anyway I could Be SURE that my hd is failing/aboutto fail? so I can make backups, cos I really don't have space...

Thanks for the morale boost slipstream... :/
heh, damn & my MP3 collection is mostly hand picked singles, it'd be hell to pick them all over again sad.gif

oh & for viruses I got Kaspersky Internet Security 8 installed,so doubt it wouldn't have been detected by KIS

This post has been edited by EvilOverlord: Mar 17 2009, 12:21
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Slipstreem
post Mar 17 2009, 12:31
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I think the most important thing to concentrate on now is making backups as quickly as possible rather that trying to determine whether the drive is actually failing or not. You're in a very precarious situation if you have no backups as any drive can fail instantly at any time. I've had plenty of good Seagates too, but it doesn't follow that all drives made by any manufacturer are going to be equal.

If you have no other hard drives with sufficient space to backup to and can't afford one at this time, I'd highly recommend that you buy a stack of value DVD-R discs and pull off as much of the music as you can that's most important to you immediately. If you waste time trying to diagnose a problem that you can't possibly fix anyway, you may lose everything if the drive does indeed turn out to be faulty.

Backup first. Investigate after. smile.gif

Cheers, Slipstreem. cool.gif

This post has been edited by Slipstreem: Mar 17 2009, 13:02
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Soap
post Mar 17 2009, 12:36
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The below is not an attempt to be insulting, but rather to be helpful.
QUOTE (EvilOverlord @ Mar 17 2009, 06:13) *
but Iíve never faced any problems with Seagate.

Irrelevant.
QUOTE (EvilOverlord @ Mar 17 2009, 06:13) *
Iíve had my IDE Seagate 80 for several years now, being put under heavy stress 24/7, never crashed.

Irrelevant.
QUOTE (EvilOverlord @ Mar 17 2009, 06:13) *
Also Diskcheckup shows error in SMART status of ST500, but Iíve always had problems with Smart info of hdds afaik

Do not be so quick to dismiss this piece of evidence.
QUOTE (EvilOverlord @ Mar 17 2009, 06:13) *
Anyway I could Be SURE that my hd is failing/aboutto fail? so I can make backups, cos I really don't have space...

Sure? No. Just asking you not to be so quick to dismiss the evidence that it is likely.
QUOTE (EvilOverlord @ Mar 17 2009, 06:13) *
oh & for viruses I got Kaspersky Internet Security 8 installed,so doubt it wouldn't have been detected by KIS

Do not be so quick to assume any AV is even approaching foolproof today.


EDIT: More attempt at clarity:
I'm not claiming the drive is good or than the drive is bad. I do not know enough to make that judgement. What I am attempting to do is attack what appears to be fallacious dismissal of what little evidence you have.


This post has been edited by Soap: Mar 17 2009, 13:34


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rpp3po
post Mar 17 2009, 12:40
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QUOTE (Slipstreem @ Mar 17 2009, 12:01) *
I'm inclined to agree with C-3PO above.


Master Slipstream! Have you recovered my true name? "rpp3po" is what I could recover after a severe hard drive crash in the hot sun of the Tatooine desert.

To the OP: After backing up, try smartmontools ('smartmontools -a *target disk*' & 'smartmontools -t long *target disk*' & after a while 'smartmontools -l selftest *target disk*'). It will present you the internal error logs of your drive.

This post has been edited by rpp3po: Mar 17 2009, 12:45
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odyssey
post Mar 17 2009, 12:41
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QUOTE (rpp3po @ Mar 17 2009, 11:43) *
QUOTE (odyssey @ Mar 17 2009, 11:01) *
No, this is not a sign of a harddrive failing. Windows keep an MFT record of all existing files on the drive. This is obviously being tampered with or getting corrupt, but I disbelieve that it's caused by drive failure. Windows (and drives possebly too) checks for CRC during reading, and if it fails it will throw an error.


No, both of Windows' filesystems NTFS and FAT don't have CRC checking capability. They don't even record CRCs. In fact, most filesystems don't, only very advanced ones like Solaris' ZFS. Windows having a MFT doesn't have anything to do with it either. Approaching hard drive failure is the most probable cause.

Interresting... When I had a Seagate failing last year, Windows barked over not being able to read the files*. According to your claim, it would just throw random data.

Since OP just mentioned that files are not disappearing, no then you are right that MFT has nothing to do with it.

* If it's unable to read the data it's prone to have some sort of error detection.

This post has been edited by odyssey: Mar 17 2009, 12:44


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rpp3po
post Mar 17 2009, 12:48
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QUOTE (odyssey @ Mar 17 2009, 12:41) *
Interresting... When I had a Seagate failing last year, Windows barked over not being able to read the files*. According to your claim, it would just throw random data.


Three possible causes:

1. MFT damaged
2. Files damaged at the start of the file or other damaged metadata.
3. Drive correctly reporting damaged sectors to the operating system (not guaranteed for consumer drives).
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odyssey
post Mar 17 2009, 12:54
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QUOTE (rpp3po @ Mar 17 2009, 12:48) *
QUOTE (odyssey @ Mar 17 2009, 12:41) *
Interresting... When I had a Seagate failing last year, Windows barked over not being able to read the files*. According to your claim, it would just throw random data.


Three possible causes:

1. MFT damaged
2. Files damaged at the start of the file or other damaged metadata.
3. Drive correctly reporting damaged sectors to the operating system (not guaranteed for consumer drives).

Unlikely to me. Files could usually be read upon retrys, so the MFT wouldn't be damaged - Also all files appeared properly. No files that could be copied were damaged.

Are OP able to copy the files correctly, or will it throw an error?


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rpp3po
post Mar 17 2009, 13:08
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QUOTE (odyssey @ Mar 17 2009, 12:54) *
Unlikely to me.


Well, reality is unlikely to some people. There are no other possibilities for your case than those reported.

QUOTE (odyssey @ Mar 17 2009, 12:54) *
Files could usually be read upon retrys, so the MFT wouldn't be damaged - Also all files appeared properly.


You have obviously no clue what the MFT is or does. Single bit read fails within the MFT area can certainly prevent access to single files in the FS without affecting "all files". The most important thing to look at is wether and how a drive reports internal inconsistencies. There is NO checksuming on the FS level. You just made that up.

QUOTE (odyssey @ Mar 17 2009, 12:54) *
No files that could be copied were damaged.


Why should it not be like that? MFT stores where a file is located, not its contents (which are accessed while copying) and of course the non-damaged parts of both MFT and file-system can be copied.


I consider the OP's case solved anyway. He already admitted SMART errors and is just repressing the most obvious because he is short on backup space.

This post has been edited by rpp3po: Mar 17 2009, 13:14
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odyssey
post Mar 17 2009, 13:32
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QUOTE (rpp3po @ Mar 17 2009, 13:08) *
QUOTE (odyssey @ Mar 17 2009, 12:54) *
No files that could be copied were damaged.

Why should it not be like that? MFT stores where a file is located, not its contents (which are accessed while copying) and of course the non-damaged parts of both MFT and file-system can be copied.

Where exactly did I insinuate that MFT contained filecontent? I'm perfectly aware that it's like a TOC.


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washu
post Mar 17 2009, 14:23
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I agree with odyssey here. The chance that a modern hard drive will return wrong data without error is infinitesimally small. A drive might refuse to return data and give an error (bad sector) but it won't return wrong data. There is a reason RAID-2 is no longer used.

The drive does CRC both the stored data and the transfer to the controller. Windows will report an error if found at this stage.

The SMART error may indicate something else wrong with the drive, but it's not the cause of this problem. If the drive really was returning incorrect data then far more than just MP3s would be corrupted. It's unlikely Windows would even function for long if this were true.
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Soap
post Mar 17 2009, 14:28
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QUOTE (washu @ Mar 17 2009, 09:23) *
I agree with odyssey here. The chance that a modern hard drive will return wrong data without error is infinitesimally small. A drive might refuse to return data and give an error (bad sector) but it won't return wrong data. There is a reason RAID-2 is no longer used.

The drive does CRC both the stored data and the transfer to the controller. Windows will report an error if found at this stage.

The SMART error may indicate something else wrong with the drive, but it's not the cause of this problem. If the drive really was returning incorrect data then far more than just MP3s would be corrupted. It's unlikely Windows would even function for long if this were true.

If this is correct, then Memtest sounds to be in order.


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odyssey
post Mar 17 2009, 14:28
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QUOTE (washu @ Mar 17 2009, 14:23) *
The SMART error may indicate something else wrong with the drive, but it's not the cause of this problem. If the drive really was returning incorrect data then far more than just MP3s would be corrupted. It's unlikely Windows would even function for long if this were true.

That crossed my mind, but OP didn't mention if Windows system relies on the same drive. Actually it could sound like he uses a separate drive just for mp3's, but a clarification would make determination easier.


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odyssey
post Mar 17 2009, 14:30
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QUOTE (Soap @ Mar 17 2009, 14:28) *
If this is correct, then Memtest sounds to be in order.

I don't think so. If memory is failing, OP would suffer much severe problems than just mp3's skipping...


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rpp3po
post Mar 17 2009, 15:09
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QUOTE (washu @ Mar 17 2009, 14:23) *
I agree with odyssey here. The chance that a modern hard drive will return wrong data without error is infinitesimally small. A drive might refuse to return data and give an error (bad sector) but it won't return wrong data. There is a reason RAID-2 is no longer used.

The drive does CRC both the stored data and the transfer to the controller. Windows will report an error if found at this stage.


That's not true for all implementations. Cheap USB-to(S)ATA bridges often only include the minimally required subset of the ATA command set. Also third party controllers for internal drives may handle escalation of errors differently. Internal checksum errors aren't an indication for defects anymore, since the packing density has become so small, that the SNR has become very limited. It's only an error if the drive can't find a match to the checksum after several rereads.

That he gets SMART results at all may be an indication, that his controller/bridge isn't only implementing the minimally required command set.

It is not good practice to expect any defined behavior from a failed device. If the upper layers don't have any further provisions (Windows has none, most enterprise storage management systems do) the described phenomena are within expectation.

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Slipstreem
post Mar 17 2009, 15:20
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Yep. In the case of my LaCie external USB-to-SATA caddy, Windows seemed to be unaware of a problem with the drive until it became too bad for me to actually do anything about it. Several files on the drive were corrupt but still readable with no warning that they were corrupt for a very short period. This was followed by the drive vanishing completely, at which point Windows complained about failed delayed-writes despite the fact that I wasn't writing anything.

I don't have the in-depth knowledge that some of you guys obviously have, but that was the situation from the viewpoint of a helpless observer. tongue.gif

Cheers, Slipstreem. cool.gif

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EvilOverlord
post Mar 17 2009, 15:23
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@odyssey, 1 250gb partition is for mainly music+videos, another 250gb partition has random dumps of movies/series etc, 1 primary 20gb partition was used to test windows 7, thats it

@rpp3po, from what I could understand from your post, I don't use the drive housed in an external casing, but rather inside the cabinet, 1 thing I use different than standard setups is I use a molex to sata power connector cos my psu doesnt have sata power cables) <a href="http://www.atxpowersupplies.com/sata-ide-adapter-cable.htm" target="_blank">http://www.atxpowersupplies.com/sata-ide-adapter-cable.htm</a>

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washu
post Mar 17 2009, 15:27
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QUOTE (rpp3po @ Mar 17 2009, 10:09) *
That's not true for all implementations. Cheap USB-to(S)ATA bridges often only include the minimally required subset of the ATA command set. Also third party controllers for internal drives may handle escalation of errors differently. Internal checksum errors aren't an indication for defects anymore, since the packing density has become so small, that the SNR has become very limited. It's only an error if the drive can't find a match to the checksum after several rereads.

That he gets SMART results at all may be an indication, that his controller/bridge isn't only implementing the minimally required command set.


In that case the drive is still returning correct data and the cheap USB controller is screwing it up. If the same drive were to be connected to a good controller it would work fine.

If the drive gets an internal CRC error it's going to reread as you said and either get a CRC match or give an error. It's NOT going to send incorrect data to the host controller.

Again, if the user has a bad USB controller it would mess everything up, not just MP3s. Even if there are only MP3s on the drive, a controller returning bad data to that extent would likely make the file system unusable.
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rpp3po
post Mar 17 2009, 15:30
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QUOTE (EvilOverlord @ Mar 17 2009, 15:23) *
@rpp3po, from what I could understand from your post, I don't use the drive housed in an external casing, but rather inside the cabinet, 1 thing I use different than standard setups is I use a molex to sata power connector cos my psu doesnt have sata power cables) <a href="http://www.atxpowersupplies.com/sata-ide-adapter-cable.htm" target="_blank">http://www.atxpowersupplies.com/sata-ide-adapter-cable.htm</a>


That shouldn't be the cause. Following the advice of post #8 is the best you can do. After that try an extended SMART self-test routine (about an hour) with smartmontools as described or something else. I'd be interested to see the results.

@washu: As said, that are high expectations for a device actually failing to behave 100% according to spec. And practice tells enough stories where it just doesn't happen as you expect it to. Why do you think file systems like ZFS and enterprise storage systems use their own layer of checksumming?

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EvilOverlord
post Mar 17 2009, 19:18
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I did install smartmontools, but couldn't figure out how to run the test

Anyhow,ran a short & extended smart test(2hours+) with Hard Disk Sentinel 2.80 Pro, passed both withouth errors
here's the log -> HDD sentinel Log

This is the text on the HD overview page of ST500
"There are 6 bad sectors on the disk surface. The contents of these sectors were moved to the spare area.
The drive found 1 bad sectors during its self test.
There are 1 weak sectors found on the disk surface. They may be remapped any time in the later use of the disk.
It is recommended to examine the log of the disk regularly. All new problems found will be logged there.

No actions needed."
Power on time: 138days, 1hours
Time remaining: 1000+ days

Performance:100 %
Health 93%
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