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Samples from USB Turntables: Preparation, How do you want your clips?
Knowzy
post Feb 3 2009, 03:01
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As promised, I'm getting ready to produce some samples from USB turntables. Before I put needle to vinyl, I want to get some consensus on the proposed methods and samples. I also want to hear any additional advice you have to offer in terms of producing professional, consistent samples.

I ordered three USB turntables: The Audio-Technica AT-LP2D-USB, the Ion Audio TTUSB05 and the Crosley CR249. I also ordered some brand new albums to sample on 180 gram, virgin vinyl where available.

With your help, we can capture and analyze the best clips these low-end turntables can produce.



The Samples:



Steely Dan - Peg
From 30th Anniversary remaster of Aja. 180 gram virgin vinyl. Note: Using new song.

Play CD Sample (FLAC)



Pros:
  • Widely considered the best recorded pop album of the 70's (though I don't expect to find unanimous agreement on this at HA!)
  • Instruments sound clear and distinct from each other.
Cons:
  • Couldn't find a CD to match the 30th anniversary vinyl pressing. "Gold" remaster might be closer but is out of print and runs about $200 used.




Pink Floyd - On the Run
Dark Side of the Moon. CD: 20th Anniversary. LP: 30th Anniversary 180 gram virgin vinyl. See "Cons" below.

Play CD Sample (FLAC)



Pros:
  • L/R panning of several sounds could make a good test of channel separation and stereo balance.
  • Relatable: Best selling album of all time until fairly recently.
Cons:
  • Minimal vocals.
  • I believe I hear distortion at points but it could be intentional.
  • I wish I could have ripped the SACD version!
  • Edit: Now using 20th Anniversary CD due to remastering problems on the CD layer 30th Anniversary hybrid SACD. Thanks Axon for pointing out the problem. Next time I will ask for advice on LP-CD master matching. smile.gif




Gorillaz - Dare
From Demon Days. 190 gram vinyl (weighed record personally).

Play CD Sample (FLAC)



Pros:
  • Fully digital master transferred to analog vinyl.
  • Low, intricate bass that may be difficult to reproduce on vinyl.
  • Light-to-moderate compression that's presumably not present on vinyl version.
Cons:
  • Nothing comes to mind. Please chime in if you have reasons why this is a poor sample to use.




The Black Eyed Peas - Dum Diddly
From Monkey Business. 140 gram vinyl (weighed record personally). Edit: Now using a different section of the track

Play CD Sample (FLAC)



Pros:
  • Another all digital master
  • Low, jaggedy (from a waveform standpoint) bass note that should be difficult to reproduce on vinyl (last second of clip)
  • Moderate compression
Cons:
  • This was my original choice for a digitally mastered recording. However, the LP weighs in at 140 grams. I worry that the inferior vinyl will shift the blame of poor reproduction from the turntable to the vinyl. If you think this would make a better sample than Dare and are not as concerned about the vinyl quality, please chime in. Edit: Now using both this clip and Dare.




Fleetwood Mac - Rhiannon
From Fleetwood Mac. Scratched and Dusty Album.

Play CD Sample (FLAC)



Pros:
  • Abused, scratched and dusty LP.
Cons:
  • Nothing comes to mind. Please chime in if you have reasons why this is a poor sample to use.





The Process:


  • Brand new 180 gram, virgin vinyl for DSOM and Aja. 190 gram and 140 gram vinyl for Demon Days and Monkey Business respectively with no pledge of virginity.
  • Brand new turntables. The only playback prior to recording will be the level-setting.
  • Record from best turntable to worst, thereby keeping record wear minimal. The best-to-worst order looks like this:
    • Audio-Technica: "Dual Magnet" AT3600L MM cart, aluminum platter, lists specs
    • Ion Audio: MM cart, plastic platter, no specs
    • Crosley: Ceramic cart, plastic platter, no specs
  • Set levels in the same track but at different point from sample. Make best effort to match the amplitude of CD rip. In the case of compressed digital rips, analog recording should approach peak without clipping. Edit: Or don't set levels at all if USB turntable doesn't allow it.
  • Computer : Three year old, home built PC Pentium / Via MB. Only USB mouse, PS/2 keyboard, DVI out and 100-baseT will be connected during recording. Edit: Forgot to mention headphones.


Any other samples?


  • Useful to take a silent sample form the beginning and/or end of an album?
  • Silent sample of turntable without power connected to test for problems similar to this guy?


Two out of three turntables have already arrived. I'm expecting the Crosley today. Sample clips will follow soon after I gather feedback on the process and clips.

This should be fun!

This post has been edited by Knowzy: Apr 23 2009, 17:27
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Axon
post Feb 3 2009, 03:24
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Record weight is an almost entirely meaningless indicator of sound quality, and in many cases a heavier weight implies poorer sound quality. 140g is fine.

You might want to try analog recording the SACD DSOTM, unless you can find an earlier CD master. That CD layer on the SACD has some massive issues, as Stereophile pointed out a few years ago.

You probably should have asked us first for CD/LP comparison advice smile.gif Off the top of my head I can suggest a few LPs that I absolutely know for certain have (virtually) the same master as the CD. You can't be at all sure of that with these records.

Recordings of each turntable both without any music playing (but with the motor running), and in a blank groove, are extremely useful.

If you could, please measure the tracking force of each cartridge with a scale accurate to 0.1g or so. You don't need to get one of the hifi scales.

The measurements we're looking for are:
  • Equalization errors due to cartridge/amp distortions - shows up as frequency response deviations in vinyl vs CD
  • Tonearm resonance - causes unnatural bass boost if it's too high. shows up as large peak in frequency response of vinyl vs CD. This also implies a stiff suspension which if paired with a high tracking force can really screw up a record.
  • Tracing distortion/scanning loss - nonlinear distortion due to stylus shape. Shows up as continuously rising HF response of vinyl vs CD, might peak if the needle is too big
  • Noise margin of amp - how far below the groove noise is the amp noise? Shows up as response difference in amp noise recording (motor running, stylus not in groove) vs groove noise w/o music
  • Noise rejection of cartridge - How well the stylus profile is able to track the groove in the presence of groove scratches/dust/etc. Some cartridges are better than others on this. Shows up as a difference in noise levels of the same groove noise between two cartridges, once the peak sound levels of each recording are equalized.
I have an old pressing of Aja and the original US and 30th anniv pressings of DSOTM recorded with my 440ML, but alas I just broke the tip on my OC9, so I might be of marginal help with comparing against a higher end system. However, I do have a Stanton 500 at my disposal.... biggrin.gif

This is all about investigating the situation from an audiophile perspective, of course smile.gif

This post has been edited by Axon: Feb 3 2009, 03:26
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