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2009 ripping/encoding general poll
What are your current choices for your own musical library?
What's your *main lossy* format of choice?
MP3 [ 497 ] ** [59.10%]
Ogg Vorbis [ 120 ] ** [14.27%]
AAC (MP4, M4A, AAC) [ 137 ] ** [16.29%]
MPC [ 38 ] ** [4.52%]
WavPack lossy [ 3 ] ** [0.36%]
LossyWAV + lossless [ 8 ] ** [0.95%]
WMA Standard or PRO (lossy) [ 4 ] ** [0.48%]
Atrac (any version) [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
other lossy format [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
I don't use lossy AT ALL! [ 34 ] ** [4.04%]
What's your *main lossless* format of choice?
FLAC [ 566 ] ** [67.30%]
WavPack [ 113 ] ** [13.44%]
TAK [ 46 ] ** [5.47%]
Monkey's Audio [ 20 ] ** [2.38%]
Apple Lossless [ 25 ] ** [2.97%]
WMA Lossless [ 6 ] ** [0.71%]
OptimFrog [ 1 ] ** [0.12%]
other lossless format [ 5 ] ** [0.59%]
I don't use lossless AT ALL! [ 59 ] ** [7.02%]
What's your favorite ripping mode {for your main, archive or most important library if you have several ones}?
one file per track [ 638 ] ** [75.86%]
one file per disc with cuesheet or chapters [ 116 ] ** [13.79%]
it depends: I mix both [ 87 ] ** [10.34%]
Total Votes: 923
  
guruboolez
post Jan 1 2009, 16:33
Post #1





Group: Members (Donating)
Posts: 3474
Joined: 7-November 01
From: Strasbourg (France)
Member No.: 420



Happy new year to everyone smile.gif

As last year and the year before, I invite every HA.org members to answer a few questions. 920 persons take part to the same poll in 2007. And in 2008, a new record was broken with more than 1200 participants. I would thank the HA.org team who makes this score possible by giving to this poll a lot of visibility (it was pinned and appeared on HA portal during several weeks). I invite of course everyone to break it in the next months.

With all datas we gathered in the last year we now have nice and interesting curves:


(click to enlarge)

I let you comment this smile.gif

____
NB: To keep this first post short, I will post the links to previous polls and all exact datas a bit later.

This post has been edited by guruboolez: Jan 1 2009, 17:07
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vpa
post Jan 3 2009, 09:05
Post #2





Group: Members
Posts: 99
Joined: 13-April 08
Member No.: 52748



WavPack for back up and serious listening. Also for listening on my Cowon A3.

iTunes AAC for background listening with my iMac and filling my iPod.

Lame 3.98 only for uploading my selfmade songs on Last.FM, MySpace & Ning.


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WavPack 4.50.1 -hhx6 | LAME 3.98.2 -V 0
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user
post Jan 3 2009, 12:57
Post #3





Group: Members
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-October 01
From: the great wide open
Member No.: 277



Ripper: EAC v 0.9b4
Mode: Secure , test & copy , no c2 usage, to single song/track files

Advantage of single songs:
Easier search and find in your collection, eg. by program Mpeg Audio collection MAC 2.93.1, or comparison of different editions of same/similar albums.

Because EAC appends the gaps to previous track, you don't miss anything in the songs or "gaps", also perfect gapless playing is standard since ages.



EAC + mareo.exe ripping/encoding/tagging in 1 step to 3 formats:



1. Lossless FLAC -8 -V
target: Listening in HiFi , living room, archive


2. lossy MPC 1.16 (iic, thats the current version) --quality 8 --ms 15 --xlevel
target: archive backup solution, small size ! nearly perfect quality, great encoding and decoding speeds.

3. lossy MP3 Lame 3.98
(iirc) , -V5 (vbr-new doesn't need to be specified anymore with 3.98 iirc)
target: listening on portable , usb-mp3-stick, or now SD-card-mp3 device with Koss KSC 75 headphones for running outdoors or listening in car.




Why ?

1. FLAC -8 (bitrates around 700 - 1000 kbit/s) HiFi listening purpose, no compromise, the Exact Original CD !
It offers hardware support, think of devices for streaming in the house, from PC/HD to HiFi stereo in living-room. EG. EVA 8000 Netgear hardware and many many others.
FLAC will be built into more and more hardware.
Also: great decoding speed, independent on the encoding compression level.
Still good encoding speed at -8 (8=best compression level), even at P3 @ 800 MHz.

2. MPC -q8 --ms 15: bitrates around 260 - 270 kbit/s small-sized archive backup quality, if you have FLAC Lossless already, but good compromise
A long time reliable fine-tuned lossy format. Good encoding and great decoding speed.

3. MP3 Lame V5 bitrates around 120 - 150 kbit/s for portable listening on running outdoors or in car driving
small size, hardware support in priceworthy supermarket devices !



What matters ?

Clearly commercial priceworthy ubiquitious hardware device support.
So a lot of votes to FLAC and mp3.

Today: 1000 GB HD at 90 - 100 Euro prices, so no question of storage space/place or costs.
Also DVD+R storage is a possibilty and even cheaper.

See www.High-Quality.ch.vu for High Quality Audio Archiving Tutorials/guides , I hope to update it soon, if I find time. But those guides already offer now a lot of pictures and you will get the idea of configuring EAC to FLAC , or foobar 2000 etc.






edit, answer to Martin F:

http://www.damrotech.com/product_info.php?...products_id=315

100 DVD+R Verbatim at 23,30 Euro , not at 40 like Martin F calculates in his example.
So, there is still a small price advantage for DVD+R than to HD.
Of course, like I wrote, at these times, HD is together with DVD+R a good alternative for storage space.

Martin F's arguments about replaygaining or tagging on DVD+R is a non-argument imo.

Those are done before burning to DVD+R.
Afterwards I simply listen to music and don't think about replaygain or tags.

Replaygain of Lossless Flac is nice to have made and to get an impression, if the music was mastered too loud/compressed or not, but not necessary, as there is no danger of clipping introduced by lossy encoder.

In fact, you can replaygain Flacced HDCD or DTS-CD , but applying it during playback would destroy the original music, in case of DTS even to annoying noise.





So, again my procedure:


1. 1 CD: 1 step ripping/encoding/tagging by EAC + mareo.exe to 3 formats:

1.1. FLAC
1.2. mpc
1.3. mp3 lame

2. step: multiple album replaygain by foobar 2000:
2.1 After having ripped several CDs, I drop those album directories of FLAC to Foobar2000 and carry out album replaygain for multiple albums.
2.2 After having ripped several CDs, I drop those album directories of mpc to Foobar2000 and carry out album replaygain for multiple albums.

3. Scanning album art
3.1 Album art is scanned by Irfanview in 300 dpi jpg compression 90% (minimum 80% , 95% or even 100% jpg seems like waste of space, so 90% is a good practical high quality thing. Also more than 300 dpi (eg. 600 dpi take 4 x space than 300 dpi scans) seems like waste of space or time, because already at 300 dpi you win bigger album art than included into the original CD ! , a magnification of the texts or pictures !)
The directory of the scans is the FLAC album folder.
3.2 Copying the extra files like EAC logs and album art jpegs from FLAC folder to the mpc album folder.
As mp3 is only for fast food listening during sports running outdoors or in car on SD-card, no album art or small files are copied to mp3 albums, also no replaygain or mp3gain.


4. step: Independent Storage of those albums in 3 formats:
4.1 Burning / Copying several FLAC and/or mpc albums to DVD+R/HD, taking care, NOT to have same album in FLAC AND mpc on SAME DVD+R or other media/HD.
4.2 Burning / Copying mp3 albums on DVD+R / other HD

Result:

1 album is stored on 3 different media, be it 3 different DVD+R or HD.
Of course, due to good long-time stability of optical quality media ! (Tayo Yuden or Verbatim, eg. both priceworthy to buy from Damrotech), I got a safe storage or backup of the album and can forget about the original CD.
Interesting is the bitrate/quality strategy:
1. FLAC 700 - 1000 kbit/s as Exact Original CD
2. mpc q8 --ms 15 at 260 - 270 kbit/s vbr as small sized cheap backup for the original Flacs
3. mp3 lame at V5 at 120 - 150 kbit/s vbr for fast food listening, outdoors, portable 2 GB sd-card, sports or cars.

The addition of space / bitrates is per album smaller than the original waves at 1411 kbit/s !

This post has been edited by user: Jan 3 2009, 18:33


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www.High-Quality.ch.vu -- High Quality Audio Archiving Tutorials
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Martin F.
post Jan 3 2009, 16:10
Post #4





Group: Members
Posts: 125
Joined: 15-July 06
From: Germany
Member No.: 32930



QUOTE (user @ Jan 3 2009, 12:57) *
Today: 1000 GB HD at 90 - 100 Euro prices, so no question of storage space/place or costs.
Also DVD+R storage is a possibilty and even cheaper.


From what I have seen at price comparison sites, the prices are about 40 € for 100 DVDs. Costs per TB: 1000 GB / 4.7 GB * 40 € / 100 ~= 85 €. There are rare exceptions with half the price. Comparing to HDDs with 1 TB for ~73 € or 1.5 TB for ~110 €, I would clearly buy a HDD. HDDs are very fast, quite reliable, small, silent, easy to use and rewritable! So even if you found cheap DVDs for 0,20 €, that advantage is gone if you want to update you tags (e. g. if you forgot to apply replay gain). Also it would be quite a lot of work to copy all files from the 212 DVDs to a HDD, apply replay gain and burn 212 DVDs again (in the worst case only to realise you made a mistake again biggrin.gif). If the files are on a HDD, one could simply let foobar2000 do all the work (album gain per folder, for example).

This post has been edited by Martin F.: Jan 3 2009, 16:11


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Posts in this topic
- guruboolez   2009 ripping/encoding general poll   Jan 1 2009, 16:33
- - Synthetic Soul   MP3 (LAME 3.98 -V5) for listening on PC and DAP. W...   Jan 1 2009, 17:06
- - drbeachboy   MP3 Tracks (LAME 3.98.2 -V2.5) for iPod and home P...   Jan 1 2009, 17:21
- - stranhoROX   Happy 2009!! I use FLAC + cuesheet for my...   Jan 1 2009, 17:23
- - LANjackal   LAME 3.98 -V0 for listening APE Extra High + Cue +...   Jan 1 2009, 17:33
- - guruboolez   Here are the full datas: CODE | AAC | MP3 ...   Jan 1 2009, 17:43
- - Soap   FLAC -8 (single files per track) for archive and P...   Jan 1 2009, 17:59
- - collector   FLAC -6 for archive and listening until lossywav w...   Jan 1 2009, 18:17
- - d0ng   Like most, have FLAC -8 for archival purposes and ...   Jan 1 2009, 19:21
- - Bjossi   Vorbis q10 (aoTuV) for archiving & listening.   Jan 1 2009, 19:33
- - DigitalMan   FLAC V8 for archive, LAME MP3/V4 for casual/portab...   Jan 1 2009, 19:46
- - Bjossi   When I joined (which wasn't too long ago) I wa...   Jan 1 2009, 19:56
- - PJay-Z   MP3 (LAME 3.98.2 -V2 --vbr-new or better) FLAC (1....   Jan 1 2009, 20:30
- - Axon   I typically use Nero AAC for my iPod, but now that...   Jan 1 2009, 20:34
- - kornchild2002   I use Apple Lossless (ripped and encoded with dBpo...   Jan 1 2009, 20:42
- - Bodhi   MP3 (LAME 3.98.2 -V3 --vbr-new) FLAC (1.2.1 -V -5)...   Jan 1 2009, 21:11
- - skizman   can WAV be a codec? I don't bother with FLAC   Jan 1 2009, 21:29
- - Ron Jones   MP3 (LAME 3.98.2 V0) FLAC (1.2.1 @ 8) One file per...   Jan 1 2009, 21:32
- - vitos   Results from last years, and current poll too, cle...   Jan 1 2009, 21:32
- - guruboolez   QUOTE (skizman @ Jan 1 2009, 22:29) can W...   Jan 1 2009, 21:36
- - IgorC   AAC FLAC one file per track. For my ears AAC 1.5-...   Jan 1 2009, 21:55
- - Alexxander   For a long time I rip to FLAC -8 and one file per ...   Jan 1 2009, 22:01
- - lvqcl   Voted for MP3. But I also use Vorbis (aoTuV), espe...   Jan 1 2009, 22:08
- - Gow   Nero AAC is overtaking Lame 3.98.2 for my lossy us...   Jan 1 2009, 22:48
- - robert   MP3 for playback on PCs (the few ones with small H...   Jan 1 2009, 22:52
|- - DARcode   QUOTE (robert @ Jan 1 2009, 23:52) MP3 fo...   Jan 2 2009, 04:22
|- - robert   QUOTE (DARcode @ Jan 2 2009, 04:22) QUOTE...   Jan 2 2009, 21:10
- - carpman   For complete collections (albums, suites, symphoni...   Jan 1 2009, 23:11
- - Agent69   I just finished ripping my entire CD collection, a...   Jan 1 2009, 23:23
|- - collector   QUOTE (Agent69 @ Jan 1 2009, 14:23) I jus...   Jan 2 2009, 20:51
|- - Agent69   QUOTE (collector @ Jan 2 2009, 14:51) QUO...   Jan 2 2009, 22:38
|- - collector   QUOTE (Agent69 @ Jan 1 2009, 14:23) Are y...   Jan 3 2009, 12:45
- - DreamTactix291   TAK 1.0.4 -p5m for lossless (will move to -p4m wit...   Jan 2 2009, 00:01
- - DonP   As "main" I voted Vorbis for lossy as it...   Jan 2 2009, 00:01
- - punkrockdude   I really like ogg vorbis the most but the fact tha...   Jan 2 2009, 02:29
- - Neasden   FLAC (level any) for playback. TAK -p5m as a secon...   Jan 2 2009, 02:58
- - Silversight   Independent on playability, I switched from FLAC t...   Jan 2 2009, 03:09
- - DARcode   Me sigs says it all, still lossy for DAP and lossl...   Jan 2 2009, 04:10
- - twostar   I voted MP3, FLAC and one file per track. Since t...   Jan 2 2009, 07:35
|- - guruboolez   It would be nice too. But it needs a separate poll...   Jan 2 2009, 12:35
- - DonP   I haven't been keeping up... I see a lot of pe...   Jan 2 2009, 13:27
- - Kitsuned   Lossy - MP3, Lame 3.98 build, -V3 and I only use t...   Jan 2 2009, 14:19
- - seVen   Ripper: dBpoweramp Encoding/Tagging: foobar2000 ...   Jan 2 2009, 14:21
- - BoraBora   No change since last year : - MP3 - FLAC - One fi...   Jan 2 2009, 21:56
- - nyarlathotep   Too lazy to change, and no reason to change actual...   Jan 2 2009, 22:34
- - A_Man_Eating_Duck   if your using WAV+Cue you can use replaygain, the ...   Jan 2 2009, 22:46
|- - Agent69   QUOTE (A_Man_Eating_Duck @ Jan 2 2009, 16...   Jan 2 2009, 23:29
- - antman   Flac -5/Lame V5. I started 2008 the same. Tried ...   Jan 2 2009, 23:29
- - Nick.C   Lossless: FLAC, image with embedded cue sheet; Los...   Jan 2 2009, 23:32
- - A_Man_Eating_Duck   QUOTE (Agent69 @ Jan 3 2009, 11:29) QUOTE...   Jan 2 2009, 23:53
|- - Agent69   QUOTE (A_Man_Eating_Duck @ Jan 2 2009, 17...   Jan 3 2009, 00:25
- - Martin F.   FLAC. Also on my DAP (Cowon iAudio X5L, 30 GB) sin...   Jan 3 2009, 02:21
- - chrisgeleven   I had a fling with iTunes AAC for awhile, but with...   Jan 3 2009, 04:02
- - dbAmp   I use EAC in secure mode to rip WavPack images, on...   Jan 3 2009, 05:54
- - vpa   WavPack for back up and serious listening. Also fo...   Jan 3 2009, 09:05
|- - user   Ripper: EAC v 0.9b4 Mode: Secure , test & copy...   Jan 3 2009, 12:57
|- - Martin F.   QUOTE (user @ Jan 3 2009, 12:57) Today: 1...   Jan 3 2009, 16:10
- - Agent69   After considering it, I decided that I didn't ...   Jan 3 2009, 16:48
- - indybrett   FLAC -6 for all home use LAME V3 for everything on...   Jan 3 2009, 19:09
- - Teqnilogik   I rip to FLAC and then convert those FLAC files to...   Jan 3 2009, 21:12
- - Klyith   I voted Vorbis (aotuv at q6) & flac here since...   Jan 4 2009, 00:14
- - IgorC   Most of HA's members know the reason why they ...   Jan 4 2009, 01:57
|- - Alexxander   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jan 4 2009, 01:57) Most of...   Jan 4 2009, 11:26
|- - Big_Berny   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jan 4 2009, 01:57) Most of...   Jan 4 2009, 12:57
|- - DonP   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jan 3 2009, 19:57) Most of...   Jan 5 2009, 00:09
- - Diow   MP3 (LAME 3.98.2 -V2) for listening on PC. One fil...   Jan 4 2009, 02:32
|- - Antonski   QUOTE (Diow @ Jan 4 2009, 03:32) MP3 (LAM...   Jan 5 2009, 16:26
- - Slipstreem   Personal opinion or not, OGG sounds of nothing unl...   Jan 4 2009, 04:39
- - hödyr   I'm using lossless FLAC for rare CDs and audio...   Jan 4 2009, 05:54
|- - seVen   QUOTE (hödyr @ Jan 3 2009, 20:54) I reall...   Jan 4 2009, 15:09
- - HQ84   I really don't know if this is the third time ...   Jan 4 2009, 07:52
- - randal1013   AAC for my ipod WavPack for my library/backup   Jan 4 2009, 10:43
- - DARcode   I'd like to add that thanks to CorePlayer Mobi...   Jan 4 2009, 12:33
- - man   Happy new year all. Lossy for iPods : lame 3.98.2...   Jan 4 2009, 14:52
- - David Nordin   2001: MP3 - Monkey's audio 2002: Musepack - Mo...   Jan 4 2009, 15:31
- - melomaniac   2007: MP3 - FLAC 2008: MP3 - TAK 2009: AAC - TAK ...   Jan 4 2009, 16:21
- - Zarggg   Lossy: Nero AAC 1.3.3.0 q0.35 (I only ever use los...   Jan 4 2009, 16:26
- - hödyr   QUOTE (seVen @ Jan 4 2009, 15:09) Excuse ...   Jan 4 2009, 17:05
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (hödyr @ Jan 4 2009, 14:05) I don...   Jan 4 2009, 18:24
- - david e.   I find it interesting how things settle in favor o...   Jan 4 2009, 17:30
- - Big_Berny   On the other hand also Musepack and Ogg Vorbis are...   Jan 4 2009, 19:42
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (Big_Berny @ Jan 4 2009, 16:42) On ...   Jan 4 2009, 20:03
- - stinkyj   I think having an OSS encoder/decoder is awfully i...   Jan 4 2009, 20:59
- - greynol   Slightly better compression, slightly better encod...   Jan 4 2009, 21:17
|- - carpman   QUOTE (greynol @ Jan 4 2009, 21:17) I don...   Jan 4 2009, 22:10
|- - Angenial   QUOTE (greynol @ Jan 4 2009, 12:17) I don...   Jan 4 2009, 23:31
- - harto69   Hi, MP3 3.98 V3 for DAP and mobile phone FLAC for...   Jan 5 2009, 10:50
- - memomai   Monkey's Audio, one file per CD with cuesheet ...   Jan 5 2009, 11:50
- - Kujibo   For 2008 I answered FLAC + Vorbis. I really love ...   Jan 6 2009, 02:19
- - sidewalking   WavPack for lossless....Yeah, baby! LAME V2-V...   Jan 6 2009, 05:43
- - Cartoon   FLAC -8 for main archive LAME -V5 for Rio/PS3 AAC-...   Jan 6 2009, 15:08
- - GeSomeone   It is such a good idea to do this yearly (but plea...   Jan 6 2009, 21:34
- - Leto Atreides II   My lossy library consists mostly of MPC, but for n...   Jan 7 2009, 01:13
- - tev777   I've always had a mix of multiple formats, but...   Jan 7 2009, 02:29
- - Dynamic   I answered, Wavpack, MP3, disc image + CUE sheet. ...   Jan 7 2009, 02:48
|- - tev777   QUOTE (Dynamic @ Jan 6 2009, 21:48) PC ar...   Jan 7 2009, 04:14
|- - Dynamic   QUOTE (tev777 @ Jan 7 2009, 04:14) I am c...   Jan 7 2009, 22:03
- - Nick.C   The simplest advantage is that lossyWAV output can...   Jan 7 2009, 08:51
|- - halb27   QUOTE (Nick.C @ Jan 7 2009, 09:51) ...Add...   Jan 7 2009, 09:53
- - Artemis3   lame -V5 for portable listening. flac -8 -Ax2 for ...   Jan 7 2009, 23:18
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