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Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!
Dandruff
post Dec 20 2008, 19:22
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Why doesn't Foobar really MUTE the output when telling it? It just lowers the volume by 100dB sad.gif

EDIT: This just happens with the ASIO output plugin (1.2.6). FIXED (1.2.7)

DirectSound output goes silent when muting.


+ It would be nice if you could display "-inf" or "muted" instead of "-100.00dB" in the status bar. DONE (0.9.6.2)

This post has been edited by Dandruff: Mar 30 2009, 11:59
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smkk
post Dec 20 2008, 20:05
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And the difference is?
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Dandruff
post Dec 20 2008, 21:28
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-100dB isn't really silence. If you record the output of Foobar and apply gain you hear the stuff playing. I need silence there.

Current mute is just a DIM function. Hope this will get "fixed".

FIXED (1.2.7)

This post has been edited by Dandruff: Mar 30 2009, 11:59
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shakey_snake
post Dec 20 2008, 22:27
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QUOTE (Dandruff @ Dec 20 2008, 15:28) *
If you record the output of Foobar and apply gain you hear the stuff playing.

Perhaps if you could explain why you do this on a regular basis that requires you to need a better implementation, it would have a better chance of being addressed...


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Dandruff
post Dec 20 2008, 22:54
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I need real mute for safety purposes.

Basically I've routed several stuff/applications (including Foobar) back to my soundcard inputs. This way I can record pretty much all stuff in one go into my sequencer.

I just don't wanna close Foobar if I don't wanna get its output recorded. I just wanna mute it. Doing this at the moment always gives me the -100dB output from Foobar into the recording. That's not good. Especially if you don't know it (for example if you have "Show Volume" disabled in the status bar).


What was the reason at all to "design" the mute function as -100dB dim rather than muting the output completely? To me it makes no sense.

If this can't be "fixed", the current "Mute" action needs to be renamed to "-100dB Dim" at least. DONE (0.9.6.2)


Thanks!

This post has been edited by Dandruff: Jan 31 2009, 11:31
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Andreasvb
post Dec 20 2008, 23:14
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Pause?


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Dandruff
post Dec 20 2008, 23:23
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No, that doesn't work for internet streams.
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shakey_snake
post Dec 21 2008, 00:44
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Stop does.


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Dandruff
post Dec 21 2008, 00:47
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Is it so hard to understand? I don't wanna stop playback nor close Foobar.
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shakey_snake
post Dec 21 2008, 00:51
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Yes, it is hard to understand why, sometimes, people can't simply adapt their usage patterns to use the available solutions.

You've brought up valid enough points that I imagine this may get reviewed at the next 1/10th of a point version change (0.9.7). That seems to be when back-end, audio-playback-engine-sorts-of-things get addressed. Of course since 0.9.6 was just released that could be maybe 6 months from now, like it was for the guy who couldn't press the next button when using stop-after-current.

So until then, just learn to use stop or pause.

This post has been edited by shakey_snake: Dec 21 2008, 00:58


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Dandruff
post Dec 21 2008, 00:56
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Of course I know all workarounds. That's not the question here. I'm requesting a proper Mute action. Current one isn't. Please stop telling me stuff I already know. I'm not stupid.

Other players can mute the output fine. Why can't Foobar?

This post has been edited by Dandruff: Dec 21 2008, 00:57
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musicmusic
post Dec 21 2008, 01:03
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QUOTE (shakey_snake @ Dec 20 2008, 23:51) *
Yes, it is hard to understand why, sometimes, people can't simply adapt their usage patterns to use the available solutions.
Honestly in all likeliness I would imagine he wouldn't use mute at the moment since it doesn't do what he wants. He just wants an answer as to whether it can be changed or not.

As far as DirectSound goes, this is what I found:
QUOTE (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb206063(VS.85).aspx)
The value DSBVOLUME_MIN indicates an audio volume attenuated by 100 dB, which, for all practical purposes, is silence.


So it would need some other implementation than the DS volume control (which would probably mean a short delay).

(Don't ask me about other players)

This post has been edited by musicmusic: Dec 21 2008, 01:07


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shakey_snake
post Dec 21 2008, 01:07
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QUOTE (Dandruff @ Dec 20 2008, 18:56) *
Other players can mute the output fine. Why can't Foobar?

Unlike a lot of other players, many parts of foobar2000's playback is largely developed in-house, by Peter.
It was probably just easier to implement, and fits the requirements of 99.99% of users.

Your needs are really a "perfect-storm" type situation. In 6 years of foobar2000 you seem to be (after lots of searching) the first person to be unsatisfied with the current implementation.

How is that so hard to understand?

QUOTE (musicmusic @ Dec 20 2008, 19:03) *
QUOTE (shakey_snake @ Dec 20 2008, 23:51) *
Yes, it is hard to understand why, sometimes, people can't simply adapt their usage patterns to use the available solutions.
Honestly in all likeliness I would imagine he wouldn't use mute at the moment since it doesn't do what he wants. He just wants an answer as to whether it can be changed or not.
Sure. But until then, pause or stop could be sufficient.

This post has been edited by shakey_snake: Dec 21 2008, 01:10


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Dandruff
post Dec 21 2008, 01:22
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QUOTE (musicmusic @ Dec 21 2008, 01:03) *
As far as DirectSound goes, this is what I found


I'm not using DirectSound. I'm using the ASIO output plugin.


And while we're talking about DirectSound: I've just tested Windows Media Player 11 and Media Player Classic -> both via DirectSound output - and both really mute the output (-inf), so ...


Foobar is superior in so many aspects, so why shouldn't it have a proper Mute action too? If you don't need it you could simply ignore this thread or not? Why do you need to fight about such things? Would it hurt you if Foobar would mute the output completely rather than just dim it?

This post has been edited by Dandruff: Dec 21 2008, 01:28
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musicmusic
post Dec 21 2008, 01:54
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QUOTE (Dandruff @ Dec 21 2008, 00:22) *
I'm not using DirectSound. I'm using the ASIO output plugin.

And if we're talking about DirectSound: I've just tested Windows Media Player 11 and Media Player Classic -> both really mute the output (-inf), so ...
Well anyway I was just passing some info along.

MPC uses DirectShow / IBasicAudio (with –10,000) as far as I can see, what happens after that I don't know. (Did you try foobar2000 DirectSound also? If the volume is handle by the output component they can behave differently.)

Anyway, a DSP component should also be able to do what you want.

This post has been edited by musicmusic: Dec 21 2008, 02:01


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Dandruff
post Dec 21 2008, 02:14
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QUOTE (musicmusic @ Dec 21 2008, 01:54) *
Did you try foobar2000 DirectSound also?


Thanks for that question! With DirectSound it works fine! So this request just applies to the ASIO output plugin (1.2.6). FIXED (1.2.7)


This post has been edited by Dandruff: Mar 30 2009, 11:59
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shakey_snake
post Dec 21 2008, 02:21
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QUOTE (Dandruff @ Dec 20 2008, 19:22) *
Foobar is superior in so many aspects, so why shouldn't it have a proper Mute action too?
I didn't say it shouldn't. If fact, I've said that I think it will probably be implemented.

QUOTE (Dandruff @ Dec 20 2008, 19:22) *
If you don't need it you could simply ignore this thread or not?
I was showing you the work-arounds. And, I was wondering why they were insufficient.


QUOTE (Dandruff @ Dec 20 2008, 19:22) *
Why do you need to fight about such things?
No one's fighting, here. I was just asking questions to try to understand exactly what your needs are. I apologize if that made you defensive.


QUOTE (Dandruff @ Dec 20 2008, 19:22) *
Would it hurt you if Foobar would mute the output completely rather than just dim it?
Directly no.
But given the fact that developer-resources are limited, all feature requests compete for those resources.

[edit]Glad you found a solution. wink.gif

This post has been edited by shakey_snake: Dec 21 2008, 02:24


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Dandruff
post Dec 21 2008, 02:25
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Yeah, I'll use DirectSound output then. Thanks for your help.


Still: It would be nice if the statusbar could display "-inf" or "muted" instead of "-100.00dB" (to avoid confusion). DONE (0.9.6.2)

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musicmusic
post Dec 21 2008, 02:34
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QUOTE (Dandruff @ Dec 21 2008, 01:14) *
Thanks for that question! With DirectSound it works fine!
OK smile.gif (That sentence I quoted was probably just referring to the meaning of DSBVOLUME_MIN at other values, and reasoning why at exactly DSBVOLUME_MIN it is silence. Well who knows really.. rolleyes.gif )

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Dandruff
post Dec 24 2008, 13:05
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QUOTE (Dandruff @ Dec 21 2008, 02:25) *
It would be nice if the statusbar could display "-inf" or "muted" instead of "-100.00dB" (to avoid confusion).


Do people agree with this?
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David Nordin
post Dec 24 2008, 13:29
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QUOTE (Dandruff @ Dec 24 2008, 14:05) *
QUOTE (Dandruff @ Dec 21 2008, 02:25) *
It would be nice if the statusbar could display "-inf" or "muted" instead of "-100.00dB" (to avoid confusion).


Do people agree with this?


A few years ago when we had this last up for discussion, it was left as is since we found it served no use.


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Dandruff
post Dec 24 2008, 13:38
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"Served no use"?
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Peter
post Dec 24 2008, 16:09
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This is a niche issue: volume control has been working like this for years and I don't recall anyone having a problem with this before until now, at least not in recent years.
Now that this has been brought up, I'll see what can be done about it, but volume can't be simply set to -inf as existing user interface components would most likely fail to display it correctly - this applies to both bundled and third-party user interface code.
Perhaps UI needs to be changed to show volume values below some threshold as "mute".
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Dandruff
post Dec 24 2008, 16:33
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Ok, thanks Peter! Can you say something to the mute problem when using your ASIO output plugin? Why does it just dim the volume by 100dB?

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Dandruff
post Jan 8 2009, 01:06
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Peter? Can you provide a fix for the ASIO plugin?

FIXED (1.2.7)

This post has been edited by Dandruff: Mar 30 2009, 12:00
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