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Helix with metal music, it seems to struggle with any type metal music :(
/mnt
post Nov 26 2008, 00:35
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I have done a couple of tests with Helix "-X2 -U2 -V60", it seems to struggle greatly with Metal music.

Iron Maiden - 2 Minutes To Midnight

CODE
foo_abx 1.3.3 report
foobar2000 v0.9.6 beta 3
2008/11/25 22:16:12

File A: C:\Temp\Helix 128 VBR Test\Samples\2 Minutes To Midnight.flac
File B: C:\Temp\Helix 128 VBR Test\Helix V60\2 Minutes To Midnight.mp3

22:16:12 : Test started.
22:16:36 : 01/01 50.0%
22:16:41 : 02/02 25.0%
22:16:46 : 03/03 12.5%
22:16:58 : 04/04 6.3%
22:17:05 : 05/05 3.1%
22:17:09 : 06/06 1.6%
22:17:15 : 07/07 0.8%
22:17:24 : 08/08 0.4%
22:17:30 : 09/09 0.2%
22:17:34 : 10/10 0.1%
22:17:41 : 11/11 0.0%
22:17:47 : 12/12 0.0%
22:17:48 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 12/12 (0.0%)


Alot of warbling on the guitar and drum smearing.

Iron Maiden - Aces High

CODE
foo_abx 1.3.3 report
foobar2000 v0.9.6 beta 3
2008/11/25 22:18:34

File A: C:\Temp\Helix 128 VBR Test\Samples\Aces High.flac
File B: C:\Temp\Helix 128 VBR Test\Helix V60\Aces High.mp3

22:18:34 : Test started.
22:18:56 : 01/01 50.0%
22:19:14 : 02/02 25.0%
22:19:24 : 03/03 12.5%
22:19:29 : 04/04 6.3%
22:19:36 : 05/05 3.1%
22:19:44 : 06/06 1.6%
22:19:52 : 07/07 0.8%
22:20:04 : 08/08 0.4%
22:20:15 : 09/09 0.2%
22:20:22 : 10/10 0.1%
22:20:32 : 11/11 0.0%
22:20:41 : 12/12 0.0%
22:20:42 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 12/12 (0.0%)


Drum smear at the start, and plenty of guitar warbling. Sound like a "a swish splash show"

Fear Factory - Descent

CODE
foo_abx 1.3.3 report
foobar2000 v0.9.6 beta 3
2008/11/25 22:21:32

File A: C:\Temp\Helix 128 VBR Test\Samples\Descent.flac
File B: C:\Temp\Helix 128 VBR Test\Helix V60\Descent.mp3

22:21:32 : Test started.
22:21:44 : 01/01 50.0%
22:21:50 : 02/02 25.0%
22:21:56 : 03/03 12.5%
22:22:01 : 04/04 6.3%
22:22:08 : 05/05 3.1%
22:22:15 : 06/06 1.6%
22:22:22 : 07/07 0.8%
22:22:27 : 08/08 0.4%
22:22:31 : 09/09 0.2%
22:22:38 : 10/10 0.1%
22:22:44 : 11/11 0.0%
22:22:53 : 12/12 0.0%
22:22:55 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 12/12 (0.0%)


Smearing and warbling, just plain awful. Sounds like a Blade encoding.

Skinny Puppy - Dig It

CODE
foo_abx 1.3.3 report
foobar2000 v0.9.6 beta 3
2008/11/25 22:24:28

File A: C:\Temp\Helix 128 VBR Test\Samples\Dig It.flac
File B: C:\Temp\Helix 128 VBR Test\Helix V60\Dig It.mp3

22:24:28 : Test started.
22:24:58 : 01/01 50.0%
22:25:03 : 02/02 25.0%
22:25:09 : 03/03 12.5%
22:25:18 : 04/04 6.3%
22:25:23 : 05/05 3.1%
22:25:29 : 06/06 1.6%
22:25:37 : 07/07 0.8%
22:25:45 : 08/08 0.4%
22:25:56 : 09/09 0.2%
22:26:03 : 10/10 0.1%
22:26:07 : 11/11 0.0%
22:26:15 : 12/12 0.0%
22:26:17 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 12/12 (0.0%)


Smearing all over the place. Even Helix can struggle with Electric music.

Fear Factory - Replica

CODE
foo_abx 1.3.3 report
foobar2000 v0.9.6 beta 3
2008/11/25 22:26:40

File A: C:\Temp\Helix 128 VBR Test\Samples\Replica.flac
File B: C:\Temp\Helix 128 VBR Test\Helix V60\Replica.mp3

22:26:40 : Test started.
22:26:55 : 01/01 50.0%
22:27:00 : 02/02 25.0%
22:27:06 : 03/03 12.5%
22:27:11 : 04/04 6.3%
22:27:16 : 05/05 3.1%
22:27:25 : 06/06 1.6%
22:27:34 : 07/07 0.8%
22:27:43 : 08/08 0.4%
22:27:47 : 09/09 0.2%
22:27:53 : 10/10 0.1%
22:27:59 : 11/11 0.0%
22:28:05 : 12/12 0.0%
22:28:06 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 12/12 (0.0%)


Sounds like a Blade encoding. Very poor for 128kbps standards.

Metallica - Trapped Under Ice

CODE
foo_abx 1.3.3 report
foobar2000 v0.9.6 beta 3
2008/11/25 22:28:32

File A: C:\Temp\Helix 128 VBR Test\Samples\Trapped Under Ice.flac
File B: C:\Temp\Helix 128 VBR Test\Helix V60\Trapped Under Ice.mp3

22:28:32 : Test started.
22:28:43 : 01/01 50.0%
22:28:47 : 02/02 25.0%
22:28:52 : 03/03 12.5%
22:28:57 : 04/04 6.3%
22:29:01 : 05/05 3.1%
22:29:06 : 06/06 1.6%
22:29:11 : 07/07 0.8%
22:29:18 : 08/08 0.4%
22:29:23 : 09/09 0.2%
22:29:28 : 10/10 0.1%
22:29:33 : 11/11 0.0%
22:29:38 : 12/12 0.0%
22:29:47 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 12/12 (0.0%)


Warbling on the guitar.

I will be still avoiding Helix, since it sounds plain bad with Metal music. IMO i recken theres something wrong with Helix's block usage. Anyway i have uploaded the samples, if anyone wants to try them out aswell.




----------------------------------------
And now for something completely different.

CODE
foo_abx 1.3.3 report
foobar2000 v0.9.6 beta 3
2008/11/25 22:50:39

File A: C:\Rips\Skinny Puppy - Mind, The Perpetual Intercourse\08. Dig It.flac
File B: C:\Rips\Nine Inch Nails - Pretty Hate Machine\03. Down In It.flac

22:50:39 : Test started.
22:50:47 : 00/01 100.0%
22:52:03 : 00/02 100.0%
22:52:09 : 00/03 100.0%
22:52:14 : 00/04 100.0%
22:52:19 : 00/05 100.0%
22:52:25 : 00/06 100.0%
22:52:30 : 00/07 100.0%
22:52:37 : 00/08 100.0%
22:52:44 : 00/09 100.0%
22:52:52 : 00/10 100.0%
22:52:59 : 00/11 100.0%
22:53:03 : 00/12 100.0%
22:53:04 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 0/12 (100.0%)


Both tracks sound identicle laugh.gif

EDIT: Have to reupload samples since one of the tracks encoded with 3.98 has a MAJOR replaygain issue.

This post has been edited by /mnt: Nov 27 2008, 23:59


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/mnt
post Nov 26 2008, 01:14
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I have reuploaded the samples without the encoded mp3s.

WARNING: Anyone with the original sample set with the 3.98.2 encodes, please avoid the LAME 3.98.2 version of Trapped Under Ice, since a mp3 decoding bug that appears after a heavy use of FLACs (that i have tried to report months ago, but no one belives me) on foobar2000, messed up the ReplayGain that produces a very loaud disortion.

This post has been edited by /mnt: Nov 26 2008, 01:18


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Canar
post Nov 26 2008, 01:28
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QUOTE (/mnt @ Nov 25 2008, 16:14) *
WARNING: Anyone with the original sample set with the 3.98.2 encodes, please avoid the LAME 3.98.2 version of Trapped Under Ice, since a mp3 decoding bug that appears after a heavy use of FLACs (that i have tried to report months ago, but no one belives me) on foobar2000, messed up the ReplayGain that produces a very loaud disortion.
This bug may have been fixed in v0.9.6 beta 5, when a strange and rare MP3 decoder bug was fixed.


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patmcg
post Nov 26 2008, 06:26
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QUOTE (/mnt @ Nov 25 2008, 14:14) *
please avoid the LAME 3.98.2 version of Trapped Under Ice, since a mp3 decoding bug that appears after a heavy use of FLACs (that i have tried to report months ago, but no one belives me) on foobar2000, ...


What is a heavy use of FLACs?


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rohangc
post Nov 26 2008, 06:31
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Looks like I'll be sticking with good ol' LAME for now smile.gif
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kornchild2002
post Nov 26 2008, 10:39
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I found this out whenever Lame 3.98.2 was released. I always conduct a listening test between every major mp3 encoder (Lame, iTunes, FhG, and Helix) whenever a new version of Lame is released. I conducted a test when 3.98.2 came out comparing bitrates of about 170kbps VBR. My library mainly consists of metal music (from all the metal sub-genres) and some hard rock (AC/DC, Guns N' Roses, Seether, etc.).

I was unable to ABX between the source lossless files and Lame at -V 3 for most of the tracks (I tested 12 tracks and only had one incident with Lame during a particular metal song for only a few seconds in the beginning). The iTunes mp3 encoder did pretty good but I could only get it to use up to 166kbps VBR but I passed about half of the ABX tests. The FhG encoder did a little better but I was able to pass a handful of the ABX tests. I passed ALL of the ABX tests with Helix at the 170kbps VBR setting.

I don't know what it was about Helix but it just didn't do a good job with metal and hard rock (10 metal tracks, 2 hard rock). I didn't test any other setting as Lame at -V 3 is perceptual to me so there is no need to use a higher bitrate setting.
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shadowking
post Nov 26 2008, 11:22
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I had similar findings for heavy music on that helix encoder a few years ago.


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rohangc
post Nov 26 2008, 11:39
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QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Nov 26 2008, 04:39) *
I didn't test any other setting as Lame at -V 3 is perceptual to me so there is no need to use a higher bitrate setting.

I switched to LAME 3.98.2 -V 3 myself as I too was unable to tell the differences between the source FLAC files and these MP3 files. My collection also consists mainly of heavy metal music.

I am sticking with LAME 3.98.2 for now.

This post has been edited by rohangc: Nov 26 2008, 11:41
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Silversight
post Nov 26 2008, 13:17
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QUOTE (/mnt @ Nov 26 2008, 00:35) *
CODE
foo_abx 1.3.3 report
foobar2000 v0.9.6 beta 3
2008/11/25 22:50:39

File A: C:\Rips\Skinny Puppy - Mind, The Perpetual Intercourse\08. Dig It.flac
File B: C:\Rips\Nine Inch Nails - Pretty Hate Machine\03. Down In It.flac

...

----------
Total: 0/12 (100.0%)

Both tracks sound identicle laugh.gif

Shouldn't you get ~6/12 for that conclusion? smile.gif


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tycho
post Nov 26 2008, 14:57
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QUOTE (Silversight @ Nov 26 2008, 04:17) *
QUOTE (/mnt @ Nov 26 2008, 00:35) *


CODE
foo_abx 1.3.3 report
foobar2000 v0.9.6 beta 3
2008/11/25 22:50:39

File A: C:\Rips\Skinny Puppy - Mind, The Perpetual Intercourse\08. Dig It.flac
File B: C:\Rips\Nine Inch Nails - Pretty Hate Machine\03. Down In It.flac

...

----------
Total: 0/12 (100.0%)

Both tracks sound identicle laugh.gif

Shouldn't you get ~6/12 for that conclusion? smile.gif

Hehe, good catch. laugh.gif 0/12 is in reality the same as 12/12 (when you report the opposite of what you hear). Random answers would give ~6/12.
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/mnt
post Nov 26 2008, 20:29
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[quote name='Canar' date='Nov 26 2008, 01:28' post='601318']
[quote name='/mnt' post='601314' date='Nov 25 2008, 16:14']WARNING: Anyone with the original sample set with the 3.98.2 encodes, please avoid the LAME 3.98.2 version of Trapped Under Ice, since a mp3 decoding bug that appears after a heavy use of FLACs (that i have tried to report months ago, but no one belives me) on foobar2000, messed up the ReplayGain that produces a very loaud disortion.[/quote]This bug may have been fixed in v0.9.6 beta 5, when a strange and rare MP3 decoder bug was fixed.
[/quote]

Thanks for the info, i will have try beta 5, am still using beta 3 for some reason smile.gif. Hopefully its the rare decoding issues with mp3 frames below 128kbps, that appear after i use other codecs such as FLAC.

[quote name='patmcg' date='Nov 26 2008, 06:26' post='601344']
[quote name='/mnt' post='601314' date='Nov 25 2008, 14:14']please avoid the LAME 3.98.2 version of Trapped Under Ice, since a mp3 decoding bug that appears after a heavy use of FLACs (that i have tried to report months ago, but no one belives me) on foobar2000, ...[/quote]

What is a heavy use of FLACs?
[/quote]

Just of a long seesion of playing music, transcoding and replaygaining my FLAC (Lossless) collection.

[quote name='rohangc' date='Nov 26 2008, 06:31' post='601346']
Looks like I'll be sticking with good ol' LAME for now smile.gif
[/quote]

Same here.

[quote name='Silversight' date='Nov 26 2008, 13:17' post='601391']
[/quote]
Shouldn't you get ~6/12 for that conclusion? smile.gif
[/quote]

[quote name='tycho' date='Nov 26 2008, 14:57' post='601411']

Hehe, good catch. laugh.gif 0/12 is in reality the same as 12/12 (when you report the opposite of what you hear). Random answers would give ~6/12.
[/quote]

Whoops, i should have done that test random, should've took my time on it aswell smile.gif. Anyway it was joke about Down In It being a rip off from Dig It.

This post has been edited by /mnt: Nov 26 2008, 20:33


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ArtMustHurt
post Nov 28 2008, 22:46
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helix caught my attention in the public listening test...too bad it doesnt do good with metal...since thats what i listen to smile.gif i'll stick with flac/lame for now smile.gif
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dnewhous
post Nov 30 2008, 10:33
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I also found that AVS4YOU has deletrious effects on dbPoweramp during the install. All the icons in the "Converting to" combo box in the context menu for dbPoweramp appear unassociated.
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