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Curaçao by Br3tt, Columns UI configuration
Sounds Blast
post Nov 24 2008, 04:29
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QUOTE (Ben! @ Nov 23 2008, 23:20) *
Wow...amazing config. One of the best, most feature-rich yet. Only one issue: at the top of the window, I have two buttons for Google ("Google Artist Photo" or "Google Album Cover") and one for last.fm ("A custom last.fm station"), but the only problem is that those buttons have a black background while they should match the blue-ish gray you've set. Any idea what could cause this or how to fix it?

If you're talking about the Hover Over Image, "when you hover your mouse over the buttons" this is perfectly normal, "no problem with it" correct color.
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Ben!
post Nov 24 2008, 05:52
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QUOTE (Sounds Blast @ Nov 23 2008, 21:29) *
QUOTE (Ben! @ Nov 23 2008, 23:20) *

Wow...amazing config. One of the best, most feature-rich yet. Only one issue: at the top of the window, I have two buttons for Google ("Google Artist Photo" or "Google Album Cover") and one for last.fm ("A custom last.fm station"), but the only problem is that those buttons have a black background while they should match the blue-ish gray you've set. Any idea what could cause this or how to fix it?

If you're talking about the Hover Over Image, "when you hover your mouse over the buttons" this is perfectly normal, "no problem with it" correct color.


Nope, it's a black background no matter what. When I hover I see that the buttons appear to depress, but I the background is black whether I hover or not.
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Ben!
post Nov 24 2008, 07:18
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Another problem I'm having that I haven't had with any previous configs: I can't reorder tracks by dragging. When I do click and drag, a little line comes up that indicates where the song would go, but when I release the mouse button nothing happens.
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Falstaff
post Nov 24 2008, 08:23
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QUOTE (Ben! @ Nov 24 2008, 08:18) *
Another problem I'm having that I haven't had with any previous configs: I can't reorder tracks by dragging. When I do click and drag, a little line comes up that indicates where the song would go, but when I release the mouse button nothing happens.


maybe you are in an auto-playlist with forced sort option ticked ?


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elenhil
post Nov 24 2008, 10:24
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Well, I do hope Falstasff will consider returning to the classical album list enabled interfaces in future. This all-library-loaded concept is somewhat questionable to me in terms of usability.
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elenhil
post Nov 24 2008, 16:28
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Please, take this as a piece of constructive criticism.

Browsing all your music the way it's implemented in this configuratuion is opposite to true usability. See: you have a global list.

First, the global list (given that it's all collapsed) consists of elements (boxes) with album art on the left and album artist and album title on the right (one above the other). That is, navigating through the list searching for a particular item the first thing a user (given he or she is not Asian or otherwise used to RTL layouts) sees is album art. Which, being a tiny 54px wide, is way too small to be really helpful in easily locating neither the album (even on lower display resolutions) nor (obviously) the artist, but nevertheless it occupies the most significant leftmost position in a line, where properly most important info should be located. So, in terms of search usability (not "eye-candiness") an album art like that is redundant and disturbing. Which it needn't have been, if only it could scale with the screen resolution (and possibly window size too) to keep a reasonable size.

Secondly, the whole config is coded to provide an artist title sorted list. Which is perhaps debatable. But let it be. Even if I agree to browse my library forcedly sorted by album artist, I (and I suppose most of the users) rarely listen to complete discographies. They listen to albums. So it's the albums they ultimately search for. But the first text line (and the first really helpful informative element) a user always sees is album artist's name, being topmost. Why? A user is looking for a particular album title, but the first thing that leaps to the eye (apart from album art) is album artist rather than album title. A piece of information, once the user gets to the artist in question, becomes absolutely redundant to the search. And to make things evem worse, it is aligned at the middle of the box, so that album title is not only below album artist, but lies at the bottom line of the box.

Which produces a sorry picture: of the three main potentially informative elements the single most and really important one - the album title - is placed in the least significant lower right position after two redundant and insignificant elements. That is absolutely contrary to true usabiliy. A user searching for an album, having located the artist in question, must then browse the list deliverately filtering two out of each three informative elements, and for no apparent reason. Which is to my eyes pure redundancy and info pollution. Which is non at all inevitable, just take a look at classical text list interfaces: once an intermediate category (say, album artist) is located, further information (sorted by other categories like album title) is presented without innecessary repetition of the higher catery (like in Windows Explorer, for example). And your way of presenting this is almost like an Explorer where each file name is forcedly preceded by a folder name. In my opinion, there is no way in of getting rid of this redundant repetition unless you rething the whole layout enabling a classical selective list browsing interface.

Thirdly, the whole library is made selectively accessible through an alphabetical index on top and a graphical album art index below. The alphabetical one fails to index non-latin characters, to begin with. But even having neglected many non-English speaking users (and those who simply listen to foreign music, too), it is still far from usability dealing with purely Latin character content, because picking a letter gets the list centered on the first artist name beginning with that letter. Centered, that is, there are lots of irrelevant lines in the upper half of the list which a user must skip to get to the artist in question, located at the center of the screen. It seemed to me a common practice to place the object of a link of such kind in the beginning (that is, top) of the output area, not its center, because the beginning is always clearly marked by edges, lines, borders, whatever (that is, the eye immediately knows where to focus), while the center is ambiguous with confusingly similar elements above and below and no reference point to focus attention to. It is almost like browsing a document, hitting page down and then trying to find where the beginning of that new page is! It is most stupid for a program to let it scroll half page instead of full page. All the more, it would have been most logical to produce the object of the link (the artist) right below the linking object itself (the alphabetical) index!

And the graphical album art list panel is, as I've already said, too small to be of real help. Plus, the shadowing effect forther reduces the legibility of these already not conspicuous enough pictures. While it is praisable that it tries to stay in sync with the current position in the main list, it does so by placing the selected album at the rightmost end of its line of covers! So it is a complete jumble: picking a letter from the alphabetic index on top you get the object placed in the center of the playlist and in the rightmost corner of the graphical cover list. While it would have been equally most logical to place it leftmost (and topmost in the main playlist panel), allowing the user to further navigate through the albums easily (from top to bottom in the playlist and from left to right in the graphical cover browser panel, making full use of both areas' space).

Once again, please, try to take this as a piece of constructive criticism.

This post has been edited by elenhil: Nov 24 2008, 16:33
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Mr. Pacman
post Nov 24 2008, 17:04
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Well i have some thoughts too about Curacao:

first: It needs an album list panel for sure!
second: Some details in the playlist make it difficult to read compared to the wonderful Ibiza and Kung foo! (well, i don't expect from Br3tt to do these changes though..he made the most difficult parts) So i changed these details in my Foobar:



Everyone can do changes like these by his own...Also i agree that album art is just eye candy with so small graphics...

Br3tt thanks so much for this brilliant configuration! Please accept with a positive way our comments...until now almost everything i wanted to be changed was changed by me...but there are some core elements like a bigger playlists browser and configurable list not only for artists but also for albums etc... and most of all an album list panel! Its very basic IMO!

This post has been edited by Mr. Pacman: Nov 24 2008, 17:11
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London Mike
post Nov 24 2008, 17:15
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With Curacao, IBIZA and KUNG FOO you have 3 different solutions to the same 'problem' Each offers different ways to do things and each uses a totally distinct and different approach. Ultimately they should be regarded as frameworks to be personalized in any way you feel fit to suit your own needs, just choose which one is closest for you then use it as it is accepting the few features that don't quite suit you, or modify it to fit you 100%. One size can never fit all wink.gif
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Mr. Pacman
post Nov 24 2008, 17:58
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QUOTE (London Mike @ Nov 24 2008, 10:15) *
With Curacao, IBIZA and KUNG FOO you have 3 different solutions to the same 'problem' Each offers different ways to do things and each uses a totally distinct and different approach. Ultimately they should be regarded as frameworks to be personalized in any way you feel fit to suit your own needs, just choose which one is closest for you then use it as it is accepting the few features that don't quite suit you, or modify it to fit you 100%. One size can never fit all wink.gif

Yes you are right!...well, except the album list...its a basic element that could be added as a secondary mini panel at the left or together with the other lists etc..hmmm..i may try to do it...! anyway! wink.gif
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exxecutor
post Nov 24 2008, 18:13
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Well, I tend to disagree with elenhil and pacman. I'm very happy, that Br3tt has not included Album list. I have come to the conclusion that for me, file browsers like facets or album list are unneccessary because:
I have plenty of autoplaylists to which I'm listening most of the time (like new songs, top songs, songs never played,etc..) and if I want to listen to some specific tunes, quicksearch is my best friend.
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nikolai4ik
post Nov 24 2008, 18:39
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Very very impressive job Falstaff! I miss info and statistics though :/
I will stick with Ibiza so I hope you won't stop updating it smile.gif
The Library Playback Statistics in Curacao is awesome.
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jazzthieve
post Nov 24 2008, 20:17
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Hi there, newbie here but not so new to foobar. After using Ibiza for a while I'm very excited about Curaçao. I got it set up the way I like it except for one thing.
I'm on a 24" wide screen monitor at 1920x1200. At that resolution the album cover seems too small. So I decided to change it from 310x310 to 500x500. Except I run into problems with the album info and rating. I can't seem to find it in the splitter settings how to change the position. Any help is very much apreciated.

310x310 original:



500x500 changed:


This post has been edited by jazzthieve: Nov 24 2008, 21:55
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Falstaff
post Nov 24 2008, 22:10
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QUOTE (Mr. Pacman @ Nov 24 2008, 18:04) *
Well i have some thoughts too about Curacao:

first: It needs an album list panel for sure!
second: Some details in the playlist make it difficult to read compared to the wonderful Ibiza and Kung foo! (well, i don't expect from Br3tt to do these changes though..he made the most difficult parts) So i changed these details in my Foobar:



Everyone can do changes like these by his own...Also i agree that album art is just eye candy with so small graphics...

Br3tt thanks so much for this brilliant configuration! Please accept with a positive way our comments...until now almost everything i wanted to be changed was changed by me...but there are some core elements like a bigger playlists browser and configurable list not only for artists but also for albums etc... and most of all an album list panel! Its very basic IMO!


thanx Mr. Pacman, aggree with you, everybody can mod my config to fit his needs smile.gif

i can't make everybody please, it's before a config for my needs .. after a config for sharing smile.gif

Good news, i have optimized the ELPlaylist scrolling, very faster and smoother in next release (will be 1.1) biggrin.gif


QUOTE (exxecutor @ Nov 24 2008, 19:13) *
Well, I tend to disagree with elenhil and pacman. I'm very happy, that Br3tt has not included Album list. I have come to the conclusion that for me, file browsers like facets or album list are unneccessary because:
I have plenty of autoplaylists to which I'm listening most of the time (like new songs, top songs, songs never played,etc..) and if I want to listen to some specific tunes, quicksearch is my best friend.


smile.gif

QUOTE (elenhil @ Nov 24 2008, 17:28) *
Please, take this as a piece of constructive criticism.

...

Once again, please, try to take this as a piece of constructive criticism.


thanx for this constructive mind smile.gif
but i'll not change my config, i like it like this, it fit perfectly my needs and tastes

Regards smile.gif

QUOTE (jazzthieve @ Nov 24 2008, 21:17) *
Hi there, newbie here but not so new to foobar. After using Ibiza for a while I'm very excited about Curaçao. I got it set up the way I like it except for one thing.
I'm on a 24" wide screen monitor at 1920x1200. At that resolution the album cover seems too small. So I decided to change it from 310x310 to 500x500. Except I run into problems with the album info and rating. I can't seem to find it in the splitter settings how to change the position. Any help is very much apreciated.

310x310 original:



500x500 changed:


you have only change the line :

$puts(default_left_panel_width,310)

in the Per TRack section script, have to be done in the Per Second section too to put text at the good place too !!

QUOTE (Mr. Pacman @ Nov 24 2008, 18:58) *
QUOTE (London Mike @ Nov 24 2008, 10:15) *

With Curacao, IBIZA and KUNG FOO you have 3 different solutions to the same 'problem' Each offers different ways to do things and each uses a totally distinct and different approach. Ultimately they should be regarded as frameworks to be personalized in any way you feel fit to suit your own needs, just choose which one is closest for you then use it as it is accepting the few features that don't quite suit you, or modify it to fit you 100%. One size can never fit all wink.gif

Yes you are right!...well, except the album list...its a basic element that could be added as a secondary mini panel at the left or together with the other lists etc..hmmm..i may try to do it...! anyway! wink.gif


the only way i see smile.gif


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jazzthieve
post Nov 24 2008, 22:49
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Thank you very much Falstaff
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Falstaff
post Nov 24 2008, 22:50
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QUOTE (nikolai4ik @ Nov 24 2008, 19:39) *
Very very impressive job Falstaff! I miss info and statistics though :/
I will stick with Ibiza so I hope you won't stop updating it smile.gif
The Library Playback Statistics in Curacao is awesome.


thanx


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Freud2004
post Nov 24 2008, 23:06
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Just to say tanks, great config, good work.



one hug from Portugal
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Mr. Pacman
post Nov 25 2008, 02:31
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Unbelievable...every time i look inside Br3tt's code i see even more genious management of variables etc...very smart way of thinking because this way its easier to mod it too! With 2 very simple changes i managed to put a big album list instead of the second "artist list"...great!
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RavenSoft
post Nov 25 2008, 03:07
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can you post a screenshot? I was going to ask if there was anyone who could add the album list panel because graphical browser seems to not like something on my AMD Phenom Quad Core, ATI Radeon 3800HD Series system and Falstaff says its nothing he can do and that plugin isn't maintained anymore which sucks. The only way I see to deal with albums is the little alphabet deal at the top and thats my problem if you see screenshots I have posted in earlier posts. Anyway I guess my only option is the album list panel but I know ZERO about messing with codes and stuff LOL.
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elenhil
post Nov 25 2008, 09:04
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QUOTE (Falstaff @ Nov 25 2008, 01:10) *
thanx for this constructive mind smile.gif
but i'll not change my config, i like it like this, it fit perfectly my needs and tastes

Should I understand it like you do not want to acknowledge even the most obvious blunders? Like "centering" the graphical cover browser panel on the rightmost album, forcing the user to scroll each time he or she wants to see the next one (it's almost like a table of contents in an e-book, where you click on a chapter link but get it starting at the bottom of the page, not on top, forcing you to scroll down to read everything beyond its title). These are not regular whinings like "I want this or that eye-candy added", these are objective defects.

It's more than OK to see your errors, man. That would help make a true developer of you. Learn on your errors and think about other people. That's what makes Apple interfaces outstanding.

Sorry to (possibly) sound paternalizing.

This post has been edited by elenhil: Nov 25 2008, 09:09
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nikolai4ik
post Nov 25 2008, 09:49
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lol I'm impressed with my hyperskills, I've managed to combine curacao and ibiza and now I''m having difficult times choosing what config to use smile.gif
Looks not as shiny as I'd like to, but I'm glad anyway


Br3tt, there's a command in the elp playlist settings in the popup background section,
CODE
// Cover //

$puts(art_path,%__PHOTO_PATH__%)
$puts(art_size,93)
//$imageabs($sub($get(width),$add($get(art_size),10)),8,$get(art_size),$get(art_size),$get(art_path),,)

it doesn't work tongue.gif
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Falstaff
post Nov 25 2008, 12:53
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QUOTE (elenhil @ Nov 25 2008, 10:04) *
QUOTE (Falstaff @ Nov 25 2008, 01:10) *

thanx for this constructive mind smile.gif
but i'll not change my config, i like it like this, it fit perfectly my needs and tastes

Should I understand it like you do not want to acknowledge even the most obvious blunders? Like "centering" the graphical cover browser panel on the rightmost album, forcing the user to scroll each time he or she wants to see the next one (it's almost like a table of contents in an e-book, where you click on a chapter link but get it starting at the bottom of the page, not on top, forcing you to scroll down to read everything beyond its title). These are not regular whinings like "I want this or that eye-candy added", these are objective defects.

It's more than OK to see your errors, man. That would help make a true developer of you. Learn on your errors and think about other people. That's what makes Apple interfaces outstanding.

Sorry to (possibly) sound paternalizing.


"centering" the graphical cover browser panel on the rightmost album => not way to do this, so before saying i don't want, learn about how components works smile.gif

"objective defects" ==> they are only for some people, like i said, i do not have tsame tastes as yours, and to reply to this : "Learn on your errors and think about other people" if you were here more often, you should know that i often take remarks and optimization in consideration and help as often i can.

"It's more than OK to see your errors, man. That would help make a true developer of you" ==> same as above, i code since i'm twelve and coding is my job for many years now ..., so i know what an error is when i make one, and i fix it ... when possible of course (cf. first point about "centering" ...)

Regards,

smile.gif

PS : if you known me better (as Mr Pacaman for example), you should know that to make please some user, i'll surely add this Album list panel in time ... but not the priority for this week.


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kkamion
post Nov 25 2008, 14:28
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QUOTE (Falstaff @ Nov 25 2008, 05:53) *
PS : if you known me better (as Mr Pacaman for example), you should know that to make please some user, i'll surely add this Album list panel in time ... but not the priority for this week.



Very nice. smile.gif

Great config, thanks for sharing it with us beer.gif
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elenhil
post Nov 25 2008, 14:28
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Falstaff,

All right, I was wrong to suggest the "centering" issue was your blunder, I take my words back. Still the issue of redundant information in this layout remains.

Rest assured, it's not your coding skills that I question, but your commitment to usability (which is not about satisfying a particular user by adding a certain feature). Usability is objective (and you may have noticed that I've given you logical basis for my ctiticism, which does not get disproved simply by someone saying it "looks" OK for him). Patterns of info significance distribution for left to right readers is objective. Text vs. graphics significance is objective. Object size recognizability dependance is objective (though, of course, somewhat variable).

P.S. And remeber - the difference between a coder and a developer lies in whether one codes primarily for oneself only (and is satisfied by simply "I like it like this") or for the others (and thus binds oneself by far higher standards). Keep up the good work and don't get descouraged by my criticism!
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Rozzo
post Nov 25 2008, 15:06
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Hi Elenhil,

I'm by job some kind of proffesional critic of critics. So you are pointing out some constructive critics about usability, but your critic lacks itself of usability. I'm not a coder nor a developper not have interest in knowing if what you are saying could be right or not, but the way you present it is quite inoperant. Some suggestions:

1 - try to correct by yourself the layout and show it, "would not it be better this way, friend?"
2 - If you don't know how to code or develop, try to ask: "hey friend, how can I get the things this way"?
3 - If -and only if- you don't receive an answer with these approachs, you can start to think about making assumptions about the philosophy of the coder.
4 - If you have some hints on philosophy about coding and developing, you'll be able to expose them and be heard positively after some positive interaction. Say, "oh, thanks for your answer, now I understand. I'm tired of developers that don't hear people... etc etc".

Quite paternalizing but older enough,
smile.gif
Rozzo

Ps. Thanks Falstaff, Curaçao works fine here and i like it a lot.



QUOTE (elenhil @ Nov 25 2008, 14:28) *
Falstaff,

All right, I was wrong to suggest the "centering" issue was your blunder, I take my words back. Still the issue of redundant information in this layout remains.

Rest assured, it's not your coding skills that I question, but your commitment to usability (which is not about satisfying a particular user by adding a certain feature). Usability is objective (and you may have noticed that I've given you logical basis for my ctiticism, which does not get disproved simply by someone saying it "looks" OK for him). Patterns of info significance distribution for left to right readers is objective. Text vs. graphics significance is objective. Object size recognizability dependance is objective (though, of course, somewhat variable).

P.S. And remeber - the difference between a coder and a developer lies in whether one codes primarily for oneself only (and is satisfied by simply "I like it like this") or for the others (and thus binds oneself by far higher standards). Keep up the good work and don't get descouraged by my criticism!
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London Mike
post Nov 25 2008, 15:33
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elenhil, there really are better ways to get what you want in life, you need to learn a little psychology... wink.gif

But I think it's important to understand the underlying motivation here, Falstaff designs configs for HIMSELF that he then graciously shares with us, he's not begging anyone to use them or looking for approval. To repeat what I said yesterday, one size can never fit all, and with the 3 configs that Falstaff has done I'm pretty sure that at least ONE of them must be close enough for you to either use as-is or modify to your own requirements. And if you do not like it as it is but you do not have the ability to modify it yourself then you can hardly blame Falstaff for that, can you? He does take constructive criticism and suggestions on board and many ideas do make it into later builds, but that doesn't mean he's going to make lots of basic changes just because one user thinks that it isn't working exactly as he'd like it to

It might be a good time for you to learn some titleformatting smile.gif

This post has been edited by London Mike: Nov 25 2008, 15:34
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