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Does EAC add aguments to --alt-preset standard
dgover2
post Feb 21 2003, 11:28
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I didn't have any time last night to do tests because I had to do some preperation for a party but I see rohangc has answered this question finally.

Excellent work, keep that bottle of champagne to yourself wink.gif

Cheers,
-dave
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rinseaid
post Feb 21 2003, 12:41
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my main concern is when people say that if eac appends "128 kbps" or whatever to the command line that it will set the minimum bitrate to that. my impression is that APS has minimum bitrates of much lower. while watching the encoding window, some go down to 32kb/s. can someone please clarify this for me? thanks smile.gif


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tigre
post Feb 21 2003, 14:01
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32kbps is used on silence. If there's something audible the minimum br of aps is 128kbps (lame 3.90.2/3.92/3.93.1).


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Volcano
post Feb 21 2003, 15:43
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By the way: When using "--alt-preset <bitrate>" to get ABR files, the bitrate selected will be used as the minimum bitrate. When using "--alt-preset cbr <bitrate>", the bitrate setting has no impact (even if set to 320kbps).


Short summary:
  • --alt-preset standard: Bitrate setting has no impact except when 320kbps is selected. This will produce 320kbps CBR files.
  • --alt-preset <bitrate>: The bitrate selected from the drop-down list will be used as the minimum bitrate (even if the value specified for <bitrate> is lower than the bitrate selected from the list). If 320kbps is selected, the output will be 320kbps CBR.
  • --alt-preset cbr <bitrate>: The selected bitrate has no impact at all.
CU

Dominic
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rohangc
post Feb 22 2003, 07:00
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QUOTE (dgover2 @ Feb 21 2003 - 03:58 PM)
I didn't have any time last night to do tests because I had to do some preperation for a party but I see rohangc has answered this question finally.

Excellent work, keep that bottle of champagne to yourself wink.gif

Cheers,
-dave

Thanks wink.gif Besides, I am a teetotaller
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rohangc
post Feb 24 2003, 11:08
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QUOTE (rohangc @ Feb 21 2003 - 02:03 PM)
1. I loaded up Winamp 2.81, fired up the output plugin "Nullsoft Disk Writer plug-in v2.0c" and configured it to write the files in "PCM 44,100 KHz, 16 Bit Stereo". All other boxes in that window were un-checked.

Guys, I hope I had the decoder configured properly. Please tell me if I was right in doing this.
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cOCo
post Mar 5 2003, 00:05
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Hello,

Congratulations for your test rohangc ! I think everything of the mp3 is the same in all files except the LAME header and especially one field : ABR Bitrate.

The test :

I ripped a track with EAC.

I converted it first with LAME manually with : lame x.wav x.mp3 --alt-preset extreme
With Encspot I had 'Unknown' in the ABR Bitrate field.

Then I used 'LAME MP3 Encoder' in the Parameter passing scheme of EAC, put '--alt-preset extreme' in the command line, 96 in the bitrate, with no box checked (no tag, no delete and no crc check)
With Encspot I had '96' in the ABR Bitrate field.

I tried again with 224 in the bitrate and found '224' in the ABR Bitrate field.

Then I used 'User Defined Encoder' in the Parameter passing scheme of EAC and the rest remained the same. I put 112 in the bitrate.
With Encspot I had 'Unknown' in the ABR Bitrate field.



Conclusion :

rohangc showed it : there seems to have no difference in the wav and even the mp3 have the same size. However, the md5 were different. I think it's only because the ABR Bitrate field in the LAME Header is different. If we use 'User Defined Encoder' for a mp3 we should have the same md5 than for this mp3 encoded manually.


Hope this can help unsure.gif
cOCo



PS : Sorry for my English !
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rohangc
post Mar 5 2003, 19:48
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QUOTE (cOCo @ Mar 5 2003 - 04:35 AM)
Congratulations for your test rohangc ! I think everything of the mp3 is the same in all files except the LAME header and especially one field : ABR Bitrate.

.............

Conclusion :

rohangc showed it : there seems to have no difference in the wav and even the mp3 have the same size. However, the md5 were different. I think it's only because the ABR Bitrate field in the LAME Header is different. If we use 'User Defined Encoder' for a mp3 we should have the same md5 than for this mp3 encoded manually.


Hope this can help   unsure.gif
cOCo



PS : Sorry for my English !

Thank you. rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by rohangc: Jun 25 2003, 06:45
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ATLien
post Dec 3 2003, 00:03
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QUOTE (rohangc @ Feb 21 2003, 12:33 AM)
QUOTE (Patsoe @ Feb 21 2003 - 07:08 AM)
I strongly doubt that, if the extra settings were taken into account by the encoder, you'd get the exact same file sizes on different settings.

Probably, I was wrong with my earlier statement. I'm sure EAC will append its settings to the command line when not set to "user defined". As you quoted, rohangc, andre wiethoff confirms this. But, seeing your results, I now believe Lame simply doesn't do anything with those parameters when it sees --aps among the switches (as Pio2001 said above here).

The constant file size with changing md5 implies that some fixed length thing differs among the files. Lame header? You can check most easily by decoding to wav and see if the wavs have the same md5. Or, you could strip the Lame headers, then check md5.

1. I loaded up Winamp 2.81, fired up the output plugin "Nullsoft Disk Writer plug-in v2.0c" and configured it to write the files in "PCM 44,100 KHz, 16 Bit Stereo". All other boxes in that window were un-checked. I hope what I've done here is right.


2. I added the 7 encoded versions of each track to the playlist and hit the "Play" button. I saved the decoded files into folders named "Track 01-Decoded", "Track 02-Decoded", etc.


3. I created .MD5 files for each such directory containing decoded files of the same song. The .MD5 files are shown below.


Track 01
QUOTE
; Generated by Easy MD5 Creator 1.4.0 on 21 February 2003 at 1:45:07 PM.
;
; File                                    Size (Bytes)    Time/Date
; ------------------------------------    ------------    ---------
; 001_256Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav    65,604,140      13:41:27 21/02/2003
; 002_32Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav     65,604,140      13:41:45 21/02/2003
; 003_CBR-256Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav    65,604,140      13:42:01 21/02/2003
; 004_CBR-96Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav     65,604,140      13:42:19 21/02/2003
; 005_DirectLame.wav                      65,604,140      13:42:36 21/02/2003
; 006_VBR-192Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav    65,604,140      13:42:54 21/02/2003
; 007_VBR-96Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav     65,604,140      13:43:11 21/02/2003
;
001_256Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav 249D7B2FB73C508656DD5DC80329E612
002_32Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav 249D7B2FB73C508656DD5DC80329E612
003_CBR-256Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav 249D7B2FB73C508656DD5DC80329E612
004_CBR-96Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav 249D7B2FB73C508656DD5DC80329E612
005_DirectLame.wav 249D7B2FB73C508656DD5DC80329E612
006_VBR-192Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav 249D7B2FB73C508656DD5DC80329E612
007_VBR-96Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav 249D7B2FB73C508656DD5DC80329E612
; End of MD5 file.



Track 02
QUOTE
; Generated by Easy MD5 Creator 1.4.0 on 21 February 2003 at 1:48:56 PM.
;
; File                                    Size (Bytes)    Time/Date
; ------------------------------------    ------------    ---------
; 001_256Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav    50,019,884      13:45:09 21/02/2003
; 002_32Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav     50,019,884      13:45:23 21/02/2003
; 003_CBR-256Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav    50,019,884      13:45:37 21/02/2003
; 004_CBR-96Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav     50,019,884      13:45:50 21/02/2003
; 005_DirectLame.wav                      50,019,884      13:46:05 21/02/2003
; 006_VBR-192Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav    50,019,884      13:46:17 21/02/2003
; 007_VBR-96Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav     50,019,884      13:46:31 21/02/2003
;
001_256Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav DD22EED95723EE3C0F9521C37B510CF2
002_32Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav DD22EED95723EE3C0F9521C37B510CF2
003_CBR-256Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav DD22EED95723EE3C0F9521C37B510CF2
004_CBR-96Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav DD22EED95723EE3C0F9521C37B510CF2
005_DirectLame.wav DD22EED95723EE3C0F9521C37B510CF2
006_VBR-192Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav DD22EED95723EE3C0F9521C37B510CF2
007_VBR-96Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav DD22EED95723EE3C0F9521C37B510CF2
; End of MD5 file.



Track 03
QUOTE
; Generated by Easy MD5 Creator 1.4.0 on 21 February 2003 at 1:52:57 PM.
;
; File                                    Size (Bytes)    Time/Date
; ------------------------------------    ------------    ---------
; 001_256Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav    55,461,932      13:49:59 21/02/2003
; 002_32Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav     55,461,932      13:50:13 21/02/2003
; 003_CBR-256Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav    55,461,932      13:50:28 21/02/2003
; 004_CBR-96Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav     55,461,932      13:50:41 21/02/2003
; 005_DirectLame.wav                      55,461,932      13:50:55 21/02/2003
; 006_VBR-192Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav    55,461,932      13:51:10 21/02/2003
; 007_VBR-96Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav     55,461,932      13:51:25 21/02/2003
;
001_256Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav 47B9AF0CA5C1668CA55F3646E96BB2C4
002_32Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav 47B9AF0CA5C1668CA55F3646E96BB2C4
003_CBR-256Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav 47B9AF0CA5C1668CA55F3646E96BB2C4
004_CBR-96Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav 47B9AF0CA5C1668CA55F3646E96BB2C4
005_DirectLame.wav 47B9AF0CA5C1668CA55F3646E96BB2C4
006_VBR-192Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav 47B9AF0CA5C1668CA55F3646E96BB2C4
007_VBR-96Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav 47B9AF0CA5C1668CA55F3646E96BB2C4
; End of MD5 file.



Track 04
QUOTE
; Generated by Easy MD5 Creator 1.4.0 on 21 February 2003 at 1:55:13 PM.
;
; File                                    Size (Bytes)    Time/Date
; ------------------------------------    ------------    ---------
; 001_256Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav    30,795,308      13:53:45 21/02/2003
; 002_32Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav     30,795,308      13:53:53 21/02/2003
; 003_CBR-256Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav    30,795,308      13:54:00 21/02/2003
; 004_CBR-96Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav     30,795,308      13:54:06 21/02/2003
; 005_DirectLame.wav                      30,795,308      13:54:12 21/02/2003
; 006_VBR-192Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav    30,795,308      13:54:20 21/02/2003
; 007_VBR-96Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav     30,795,308      13:54:27 21/02/2003
;
001_256Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav 00148F05AD4246DE702805C53C3F7629
002_32Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav 00148F05AD4246DE702805C53C3F7629
003_CBR-256Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav 00148F05AD4246DE702805C53C3F7629
004_CBR-96Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav 00148F05AD4246DE702805C53C3F7629
005_DirectLame.wav 00148F05AD4246DE702805C53C3F7629
006_VBR-192Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav 00148F05AD4246DE702805C53C3F7629
007_VBR-96Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav 00148F05AD4246DE702805C53C3F7629
; End of MD5 file.



Track 05
QUOTE
; Generated by Easy MD5 Creator 1.4.0 on 21 February 2003 at 1:57:27 PM.
;
; File                                    Size (Bytes)    Time/Date
; ------------------------------------    ------------    ---------
; 001_256Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav    31,910,444      13:55:52 21/02/2003
; 002_32Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav     31,910,444      13:56:00 21/02/2003
; 003_CBR-256Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav    31,910,444      13:56:07 21/02/2003
; 004_CBR-96Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav     31,910,444      13:56:14 21/02/2003
; 005_DirectLame.wav                      31,910,444      13:56:22 21/02/2003
; 006_VBR-192Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav    31,910,444      13:56:30 21/02/2003
; 007_VBR-96Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav     31,910,444      13:56:37 21/02/2003
;
001_256Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav 51108A3204E65AB56FFBEA9F4AEA8493
002_32Kbps-User Defined Encoder.wav 51108A3204E65AB56FFBEA9F4AEA8493
003_CBR-256Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav 51108A3204E65AB56FFBEA9F4AEA8493
004_CBR-96Kbps-Lame MP3 Encoder.wav 51108A3204E65AB56FFBEA9F4AEA8493
005_DirectLame.wav 51108A3204E65AB56FFBEA9F4AEA8493
006_VBR-192Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav 51108A3204E65AB56FFBEA9F4AEA8493
007_VBR-96Kbps-LAME MP3 Encoder.wav 51108A3204E65AB56FFBEA9F4AEA8493
; End of MD5 file.



Conclusion:
----------
The results are what we hoped they would be!!!!!!!!!!!!! The decoded files are identical to the last bit. Folks, Patsoe was right. Let's open that bottle of champagne and celebrate!!!! laugh.gif I guess the reason why the actual MP3 files were not identical was that they had additional information (LAME headers) written onto them. Otherwise, "--alt-preset standard" is "--alt-preset standard", no matter which "Parameter Passing Scheme" you use. I hope this has finally answered our question and brings an end to this traumatic discussion. Thanks a lot for your patience folks. I love you all and I love this forum. Bye.
Let me just get a understanding here. Basically what your saying is, there is no difference, when you encode and Mp3's with EAC or RazorLame? As long as you have then configured correctly, too?

Let me just get a understanding here. Basically what your saying is, there is no difference, when you encode and Mp3's with EAC or RazorLame? As long as you have then configured correctly, too? I always thought that there were no differences, when encoding with either, altought i only use RazorLame to encode my .wav's.


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I see "Deaf" people! d(-_-)b
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rohangc
post Dec 3 2003, 02:00
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QUOTE
Let me just get a understanding here. Basically what your saying is, there is no difference, when you encode and Mp3's with EAC or RazorLame? As long as you have then configured correctly, too? I always thought that there were no differences, when encoding with either, altought i only use RazorLame to encode my .wav's.


That's right. You get identical results as long as you configure EAC properly.
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Daijoubu
post Dec 3 2003, 05:30
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I compared the files in Beyond Compare and took a screenshot
Here is it:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/?showtopic=15995

Only 3 bytes differs... rolleyes.gif
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