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Lame APS nukes MPC 5 on Amnesia.wav, What the #@?
Pio2001
post Feb 16 2003, 05:29
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EDIT 02.27.2004 - Here is the sample : http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....ST&f=35&t=19099

Hello,
First let me say that I'm a complete newbie in MPC (didn't encode anything until 2 days ago).
The common opinion in here is that MPC is way better than MP3 at high quality encoding, so I thought I would use --quality 5.

Since I prefer testing than trusting, I took a bunch of tests samples : Amnesia, short, vilbel, spahm, ravebase, and a sample of Rebecca Pidgeon- Granmother (an audiophile recording, not difficult for encoding).

And... big disappointment : amnesia sound UGLY ! Much worse than Lame APS : it rings.

ABX 16/16 at quality 5, 16/16 at quality 6, 8/8 at quality 7.

It still rings at quality 6, but the problem is gone in quality 7, there is just some unimportant noise left (still worse than Lame APS IMHO, but as Lame adds more noise, it becomes a matter of taste)

If we discard Short, that is an artificial sample, I find one big failure for Lame 3.90.2 APS (Badvilbel), and one big failure for Mppenc 1.14 beta --quality 5 (Amnesia) (decoded by Winamp plugin 0.97f).

Note that amnesia is a partly artificial sample, since it was normalized. The original peaked around -6 or -8 db AFAIR. On the other hand, it is a vinyl copy, so if it had been mastered on CD, it might have peaked higher anyway.

Amnesia is available is the test sample page. What do you think of it ?

I also searched for tests about MPC quality. I found Guruboolez one, that concluded that MPC 1.06 added a coloration to the sound of his sample in standard and extreme, but performed way better than Ogg and AAC. http://forum.hardware.fr/forum2.php3?post=...&trash=&subcat=
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Frank Klemm
post Feb 17 2003, 01:59
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Hi,

I moved some changes in the SV8 tree back to SV7, hopefully this will reduce some of the problems.
I can't move all SV8 changes to SV7, the format do not support some of the new features.

Bitrate is increased by typically 3.1% compared with 1.14. Most of this bitrate increase is related to
some modificitions in the tonality estimation model (which was introduced with 1.15g).

There are also some other changes which have nothing to do with quality (some counters are now
64 bit to overcome problems with very long movie sound tracks), and these must be tested very carefully.

mppenc 1.15q for Linux will be uploaded in the next minutes. Windows version will take a little bit longer.


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-- Frank Klemm
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Posts in this topic
- Pio2001   Lame APS nukes MPC 5 on Amnesia.wav   Feb 16 2003, 05:29
- - nwn   I'm not able to elaborate a serious discussion...   Feb 16 2003, 05:45
- - Pio2001   Mhh, do you mean Ape "Monkey's audio...   Feb 16 2003, 06:27
- - JohnV   QUOTE (nwn @ Feb 16 2003 - 06:45 AM)I'm c...   Feb 16 2003, 07:46
- - Pio2001   I doubt that peaks above 18 kHz, has any effect on...   Feb 16 2003, 13:41
- - guruboolez   I haven't launched ABC/HR yet. But the sound o...   Feb 16 2003, 15:16
- - guruboolez   CODEABC/HR Version 0.9b, 30 August 2002 Testname...   Feb 16 2003, 16:10
- - guruboolez   I understand (and share) the feeling of Pio2001. T...   Feb 16 2003, 16:47
- - JohnV   Yeah, no excuse for me (except too little time) . ...   Feb 16 2003, 18:59
- - Pio2001   Here's my Amnesi5.mpc file (you'll maybe h...   Feb 16 2003, 21:35
- - guruboolez   CODEABC/HR Version 0.9b, 30 August 2002 Testname...   Feb 16 2003, 21:54
- - Gecko   ABX 8/8 Sounds like hearing the spinning blades o...   Feb 16 2003, 21:55
- - Secret Chief   I can ABX 0.0-1.5 every time; the MPC file sounds ...   Feb 16 2003, 21:55
- - Pio2001   QUOTE (Gecko @ Feb 16 2003 - 11:55 PM)Sounds ...   Feb 16 2003, 22:38
- - guruboolez   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Feb 16 2003 - 10:38 PM)I thi...   Feb 16 2003, 22:59
- - nwn   I would like to refer to this same link ... from...   Feb 17 2003, 01:22
- - Frank Klemm   Hi, I moved some changes in the SV8 tree back to ...   Feb 17 2003, 01:59
- - Garf   amensia encoded with Frank's new encoder: htt...   Feb 17 2003, 14:33
- - guruboolez   I'm an idiot : I used 1.95i codec, and not 1.1...   Feb 17 2003, 14:52
- - guruboolez   I'm an idiot : I used 1.95i codec, and not 1.1...   Feb 17 2003, 15:10
- - guruboolez   Just notice an epistemologic problem My amnesia.fl...   Feb 17 2003, 15:19
- - Garf   The original I used is at: http://sjeng.org/ftp/v...   Feb 17 2003, 15:28
- - guruboolez   I'm stupid : I used 1.95i codec, and not 1.15q...   Feb 17 2003, 15:32
- - guruboolez   Perform again the test, after a big, black coffee....   Feb 17 2003, 15:54
- - Gecko   For the record, the sample I've been using is ...   Feb 17 2003, 16:13
- - Pio2001   I took more than 200 CDs and asked myself which on...   Feb 22 2003, 04:06
- - JohnV   Hmm, I'm testing the new mppenc 1.15r. Funny ...   Feb 22 2003, 11:15
- - Frank Klemm   QUOTE (JohnV @ Feb 22 2003 - 12:15 PM)Hmm, I...   Feb 23 2003, 14:30
- - guruboolez   in the 0.500 sec. area. mpc 1.14 std representati...   Feb 23 2003, 14:55
- - JohnV   Below are the graphs for comparing 48khz and 44khz...   Feb 23 2003, 17:04
- - JohnV   QUOTE (Frank Klemm @ Feb 23 2003 - 03:30 PM)W...   Feb 23 2003, 17:39
- - Frank Klemm   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Feb 23 2003 - 03:55 PM)in...   Feb 23 2003, 17:44
- - guruboolez   QUOTE (Frank Klemm @ Feb 23 2003 - 05:44 PM)1...   Feb 23 2003, 18:19
- - JohnV   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Feb 23 2003 - 07:19 PM)He...   Feb 23 2003, 18:28
- - guruboolez   ABX result : CODE1L = D:\temp\amne...   Feb 23 2003, 18:35
- - Frank Klemm   QUOTE (JohnV @ Feb 23 2003 - 07:28 PM)QUOTE (...   Feb 23 2003, 18:45
- - Case   Mppenc 1.95z6 for Win32 and 1.95z2 for Linux are a...   Feb 23 2003, 18:47
- - guruboolez   IMO, 1.95z6 is worse than 1.15r. Dropout, at the b...   Feb 23 2003, 19:34
- - JohnV   QUOTE (Frank Klemm @ Feb 23 2003 - 07:45 PM)Q...   Feb 23 2003, 19:40
- - Frank Klemm   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Feb 23 2003 - 08:34 PM)IM...   Feb 23 2003, 21:11
- - guruboolez   I'm really confuse ; I tested 1.95z6 --standa...   Feb 23 2003, 21:20
- - Frank Klemm   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Feb 22 2003 - 05:06 AM)Autec...   Feb 24 2003, 00:53
- - Secret Chief   QUOTE (Frank Klemm @ Feb 23 2003 - 12:11 PM)B...   Feb 24 2003, 01:24
- - salpro   hi, i don't think to have as much expertise as...   Feb 25 2003, 01:51
- - KikeG   Usually, only real-world music or sounds are used ...   Feb 25 2003, 10:19
- - Pio2001   I found another sample of the same kind. The effec...   Feb 26 2003, 01:21
- - Pio2001   Wow ! Just listened to Amnesia again... seems ...   Feb 26 2003, 01:28
- - JohnV   Can you try the 48khz amnesia, which sounds better...   Feb 26 2003, 01:44
- - Pio2001   OK, but not tonight, sorry I'll try to get th...   Feb 26 2003, 01:46
- - JohnV   I hope that Frank can come up with his magic to so...   Feb 26 2003, 01:53
- - Pio2001   Here are my listening tests results. Parameters -q...   Feb 26 2003, 22:58
- - Case   Pio2001's transwave sample.   Feb 26 2003, 23:41
- - Dibrom   Here is a new version from Frank which may improve...   Mar 9 2003, 10:54
- - Frank Klemm   QUOTE (Dibrom @ Mar 9 2003 - 11:54 AM)Here is...   Mar 9 2003, 12:29
- - Tim Mervielde   Here are my WinABX-results for some “problem-sampl...   Mar 10 2003, 05:06
- - Pio2001   Is it an effect of my imagination, or is there a t...   Mar 10 2003, 20:18
- - KikeG   As a global, 6/8 + 6/8 = 12/16, p=3,8%... very lik...   Mar 11 2003, 10:16
- - NumLOCK   Have you tried the new settings ( http://static.hy...   Mar 11 2003, 10:33
- - niktheblak   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Mar 10 2003 - 09:18 PM)Is it...   Mar 11 2003, 12:09


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