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lossyWAV 1.2.0 Development Thread, Added noise WAV bitdepth reduction method
Nick.C
post Nov 19 2009, 21:06
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My gut reaction to this is that we have changed two things and are unsure which has caused --portable not to be transparent (using these particularly difficult samples) - if it ever was (have we definitively proven that the existing --portable was transparent?).

I am not initially inclined to move the -q relationship for --portable however I will probably change the --limit to 15159.

I am happy to keep --shaping defaulting to off.

The last ABX test that would be of very useful is --portable - if that was transparent then that would be great.


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halb27
post Nov 20 2009, 09:03
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--limit 15159 is fine for me too.
As for the -q correspondance of -P:
I think there are reasons to have -P correspond to -q 2.5 (-q 2.5 is very fine though not perfect).
I just hope that it's not the equidistant -q distribution among --portable to --insane which has a major impact on your decision. Equidistance is fine for --standard to --insane because it doesn't matter at all what exact -q value to use for --extreme or --insane. It's different IMO for --standard (which should correspond to 2Bdecided's original method) and --portable (which should be transparent or next-to-transparent). It's been pure chance that the equidistant oriented -q correspondance of --portable so far was considered to be transparent and still can be considered close to that.

In case it's equidistance that matters you most you could consider to remap the current -q values to new ones in a linear way that makes old -q 2 new -q 0 and keeps old -q 5 as new -q 5.
This stretches the old 2...8 scale to a new 0...10 scale, keeps the meaning of -q 5 constant, gives away the outer old values <2 and >8 which are either not worse the lossyWAV quality demands or too paranoid, and maps old -q 3.5 to new -q 2.5.
This way --portable etc. can correspond to the -q values in numerically exactly the same way it is done now, but with -q meaning the new -q values.
Together with the lower --limit and -s 0 this even keeps -P bitrate pretty much the same for the new situation (new -q values together with lower --limit and -s 0) as compared to the old situation (old -q values together with old 'original' limit value and default noise shaping).
So bitratewise we wouldn't change things seriously when considering the old and new situation for -P.
For --standard, --extreme, --insane we get smaller bitrates, with increasing savings the higher the quality demands. Fine behavior IMO.
Qualitywise at -P we get a significantly better safety margin IMO due to the improved -q value. I think -q value is the crucial thing when it comes to safety margin. We can do so without increasing bitrate seriously because of the new --limit and -s 0 strategy. I definitely think it's better to have bitrate increase be caused by a higher -q value than by using --limit 16000 and noise shaping.
For --extreme and --insane quality demands decrease with this suggestion compared to the old situation. IMO this is nothing at all to worry about.

Instead of remapping the old 2...8 to a new 0...10 scale you could also remap old 1...9 to new 0...10. The principle is the same, but it keeps the meaning of -q very close to what it is now.

This post has been edited by halb27: Nov 20 2009, 09:36


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Nick.C
post Nov 20 2009, 14:09
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lossyWAV beta 1.1.5b attached to post #1 in this thread.

I took your idea of re-mapping the scale.... old -q 0 is now -q -4 (negative -q values have been re-enabled for the bitrate conscious); -q 5 is about the same as old -q 5.

Revised bitrate table:
CODE
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| v1.1.5b | default  | -l 15159 |    -t    |
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q 10.0 | 654kbit/s| 647kbit/s| 626kbit/s|
| -q  9.5 | 641kbit/s| 633kbit/s| 614kbit/s|
| -q  9.0 | 628kbit/s| 619kbit/s| 603kbit/s|
| -q  8.5 | 614kbit/s| 605kbit/s| 591kbit/s|
| -q  8.0 | 599kbit/s| 591kbit/s| 579kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q  7.5 | 584kbit/s| 576kbit/s| 567kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q  7.0 | 570kbit/s| 561kbit/s| 555kbit/s|
| -q  6.5 | 555kbit/s| 546kbit/s| 544kbit/s|
| -q  6.0 | 540kbit/s| 531kbit/s| 532kbit/s|
| -q  5.5 | 525kbit/s| 516kbit/s| 520kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q  5.0 | 510kbit/s| 501kbit/s| 508kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q  4.5 | 493kbit/s| 485kbit/s| 496kbit/s|
| -q  4.0 | 477kbit/s| 469kbit/s| 485kbit/s|
| -q  3.5 | 463kbit/s| 456kbit/s| 474kbit/s|
| -q  3.0 | 450kbit/s| 443kbit/s| 462kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q  2.5 | 427kbit/s| 422kbit/s| 442kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q  2.0 | 416kbit/s| 411kbit/s| 431kbit/s|
| -q  1.5 | 389kbit/s| 384kbit/s| 421kbit/s|
| -q  1.0 | 365kbit/s| 362kbit/s| 411kbit/s|
| -q  0.5 | 344kbit/s| 341kbit/s| 400kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q  0.0 | 325kbit/s| 322kbit/s| 391kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q -0.5 | 306kbit/s| 303kbit/s| 381kbit/s|
| -q -1.0 | 289kbit/s| 287kbit/s| 372kbit/s|
| -q -1.5 | 274kbit/s| 271kbit/s| 363kbit/s|
| -q -2.0 | 259kbit/s| 257kbit/s| 354kbit/s|
| -q -2.5 | 247kbit/s| 245kbit/s| 345kbit/s|
| -q -3.0 | 236kbit/s| 234kbit/s| 337kbit/s|
| -q -3.5 | 226kbit/s| 225kbit/s| 329kbit/s|
| -q -4.0 | 218kbit/s| 217kbit/s| 322kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+


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halb27
post Nov 20 2009, 16:11
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Thanks a lot for remapping.
Can you tell a bit about how excatly is the mapping (you say old and new -q 5 are only roughly the same)?

I hope the bitrates are for your 55 problems set. Because otherwise -q 2.5 bitrate looks very high.
I guessed -l 15159 means --limit 15159 and noise shaping with a value of q/10, and -t means --limit 14470 and no noise shaping. But bitrates confuse me. With high quality settings bitrate of -t is lower than that of -l 15159, and with mediocre and low quality settings it's the other way around. I don't really understand this.

This post has been edited by halb27: Nov 20 2009, 16:12


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halb27
post Nov 20 2009, 17:23
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I think I have come to understand it:
default means: old -q system, --limit 16000, no noise shaping (noise shaping is off by default since quite a while).
-l 15159: same as default but with --limit 15159 instead of --limit 16000.
-t: new -q system, --limit 15159, no noise shaping.

Right?

This post has been edited by halb27: Nov 20 2009, 17:29


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Nick.C
post Nov 20 2009, 18:52
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It certainly is - you are right, these results are for my 55 problem sample set (and your second set of assumptions are correct).

I am working on results for my 10 album test set and will post tonight.

Shaping is off by default. --altpreset has a new -q system and a fixed --limit of 15159.


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halb27
post Nov 20 2009, 21:08
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Thank you Nick.

1.1.5b -P --altpreset has an average bitrate of 380 kbps for my standard test set. That's fine to me.

Can you please tell a bit about how the old -q values are mapped to the new -q values?
1.1.4j -q 3.0 --limit 15159 -s 0 yields 380 kbps, as does 1.1.5b -q 3.0 --limit 15159. But the encodings are NOT bit-identical (they start to differ from sec. 43 for the track I tested, so there must be a lot in common but not everything is identical).
1.15b -P --altpreset yields a filesize for the track I tested which is a very tiny bit bigger than the result of 1.15b -q 3.0 --limit 15159, so probably new -q 2.5 doesn't map exactly to old -q 3.0. Probably it's the same for -q 5 hence your remark.
Can you please bring some light into these things?

This post has been edited by halb27: Nov 20 2009, 21:09


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Nick.C
post Nov 20 2009, 21:20
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The following will (hopefully) clarify the changes to the --altpreset settings:
CODE
+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
| Param |  -4   |  -3   |  -2   |  -1   |   0   |   1   |   2   |   3   |   4   |   5   |   6   |   7   |   8   |   9   |  10   |
+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
| dbtk  |  1.50 |  1.75 |  2.00 |  2.25 |  2.50 |  2.75 |  3.00 |  3.25 |  3.50 |  3.75 |  4.00 |  4.25 |  4.50 |  4.75 |  5.00 |  
| ntsm  | 36.00 | 32.00 | 28.00 | 24.00 | 20.00 | 16.00 |  9.00 |  6.00 |  3.00 |  0.00 | -2.40 | -4.80 | -7.20 | -9.60 |-12.00 |
| ntsa  | -2.00 | -6.00 |-10.00 |-14.00 |-18.00 |-22.00 |-23.50 |-23.50 |-23.50 |-25.00 |-28.00 |-31.00 |-34.00 |-37.00 |-40.00 |
+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+

+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
| Param |  -4   |  -3   |  -2   |  -1   |   0   |   1   |   2   |   3   |   4   |   5   |   6   |   7   |   8   |   9   |  10   |
+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
| dbtk  |  2.50 |  2.60 |  2.70 |  2.80 |  2.90 |  3.00 |  3.10 |  3.20 |  3.30 |  3.40 |  3.50 |  3.60 |  3.70 |  3.80 |  3.90 |
| ntsm  | 20.00 | 17.75 | 15.50 | 13.25 | 11.00 |  8.75 |  6.50 |  4.25 |  2.00 | -0.25 | -2.50 | -4.75 | -7.00 | -9.25 |-11.50 |
| ntsa  |-18.00 |-19.00 |-20.00 |-21.00 |-22.00 |-23.00 |-24.00 |-25.00 |-26.00 |-27.00 |-28.00 |-29.00 |-30.00 |-31.00 |-32.00 |
+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+

nb: dbtk == Dynamic_Bits_To_Keep; ntsm == Noise_Threshold_Shift_Minimum; ntsa == Noise_Threshold_Shift_Average.




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halb27
post Nov 20 2009, 22:06
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I see, you didn't remap -q itself but some (all?) of the internal parameters which are controlled by the -q value.
I'm not into these details any more (in case I ever was), but I see -q 2.5 gets more defensive with respect to all of the three parameters you mentioned.
Not quite true for -q 5 however where 1 parameter is more aggressive.
I'd welcome if all the -q levels up to -q 5 would become more defensive in any internal aspect. Ideally to me -q 5 has exactly the same meaning no matter old or new -q system.
Is there any reason for giving other weights to the -q controlled internal details than you do when not using --altpreset? If not why not hang on to the usual weigths and give -q 5 the exact internal meaning as before,
give -q 2.5 the internal meaning of former -q 3 (or a similar value like -q 3.5), and so on?

Sorry for being not totally content for so many times, and you do such a hard job on lossyWAV.
I really appreciate your great work.

This post has been edited by halb27: Nov 20 2009, 22:08


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Nick.C
post Nov 20 2009, 23:14
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One notable change regarding the --altpreset settings is that the rate of change is constant with quality setting. This cannot be said of the previous settings. with this in mind and also the fact that the existing --portable is "close" to transparent, I feel quite comfortable with the minor change to Dynamic_Minimum_Bits_To_Keep (which at -q 5 --altpreset is still above the level for the existing -q 2.5).

The rate of change of resultant bitrate for my 55 problem sample set is significantly more consistent:
CODE
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| v1.1.5b | default  | -l 15159 |    -t    |
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q 10.0 | -------- | -------- | -------- |
| -q  9.5 | -13kbit/s| -14kbit/s| -11kbit/s|
| -q  9.0 | -14kbit/s| -14kbit/s| -12kbit/s|
| -q  8.5 | -14kbit/s| -14kbit/s| -12kbit/s|
| -q  8.0 | -14kbit/s| -15kbit/s| -12kbit/s|
| -q  7.5 | -15kbit/s| -15kbit/s| -12kbit/s|
| -q  7.0 | -15kbit/s| -15kbit/s| -12kbit/s|
| -q  6.5 | -15kbit/s| -15kbit/s| -12kbit/s|
| -q  6.0 | -15kbit/s| -15kbit/s| -12kbit/s|
| -q  5.5 | -15kbit/s| -15kbit/s| -12kbit/s|
| -q  5.0 | -15kbit/s| -15kbit/s| -12kbit/s|
| -q  4.5 | -17kbit/s| -16kbit/s| -12kbit/s|
| -q  4.0 | -16kbit/s| -16kbit/s| -12kbit/s|
| -q  3.5 | -14kbit/s| -14kbit/s| -11kbit/s|
| -q  3.0 | -13kbit/s| -12kbit/s| -11kbit/s|
| -q  2.5 | -23kbit/s| -21kbit/s| -21kbit/s|
| -q  2.0 | -12kbit/s| -11kbit/s| -11kbit/s|
| -q  1.5 | -27kbit/s| -26kbit/s| -10kbit/s|
| -q  1.0 | -23kbit/s| -23kbit/s| -10kbit/s|
| -q  0.5 | -21kbit/s| -21kbit/s| -10kbit/s|
| -q  0.0 | -20kbit/s| -19kbit/s| -10kbit/s|
| -q -0.5 | -19kbit/s| -18kbit/s| -10kbit/s|
| -q -1.0 | -17kbit/s| -17kbit/s|  -9kbit/s|
| -q -1.5 | -15kbit/s| -15kbit/s|  -9kbit/s|
| -q -2.0 | -14kbit/s| -14kbit/s|  -9kbit/s|
| -q -2.5 | -13kbit/s| -12kbit/s|  -9kbit/s|
| -q -3.0 | -11kbit/s| -11kbit/s|  -8kbit/s|
| -q -3.5 | -10kbit/s|  -9kbit/s|  -8kbit/s|
| -q -4.0 |  -8kbit/s|  -8kbit/s|  -8kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+


The only blip for revised --altpreset is between -q 3 and -q 2.5 which is caused by --impulse (on between -q 3 and -q 10).

[edit] My full collection just finished transcoding using --portable --altpreset: 378kbit/s. [/edit]

This post has been edited by Nick.C: Nov 20 2009, 23:32


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halb27
post Nov 20 2009, 23:27
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I see.
I just don't understand the dbtk settings for -q 5. Doesn't the lower table correspond to the --altpreset mapping and the upper table to the usual one?
Then what do you mean by saying the new -q 5 dbtk setting is still more defensive than it was (at least I read it like this)?

This post has been edited by halb27: Nov 20 2009, 23:28


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Nick.C
post Nov 20 2009, 23:32
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I meant that the revised --altpreset setting at --standard is more onerous than the existing setting at --portable. (revised above).


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Nick.C
post Nov 21 2009, 18:15
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lossyWAV beta 1.1.5c attached to post #1 in this thread.

Minor revision to --altpreset settings.
CODE
v1.1.4s internal settings
+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
| Param |  -4   |  -3   |  -2   |  -1   |   0   |   1   |   2   |   3   |   4   |   5   |   6   |   7   |   8   |   9   |  10   |
+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
| dbtk  |  1.50 |  1.75 |  2.00 |  2.25 |  2.50 |  2.75 |  3.00 |  3.25 |  3.50 |  3.75 |  4.00 |  4.25 |  4.50 |  4.75 |  5.00 |  
| ntsm  | 36.00 | 32.00 | 28.00 | 24.00 | 20.00 | 16.00 |  9.00 |  6.00 |  3.00 |  0.00 | -2.40 | -4.80 | -7.20 | -9.60 |-12.00 |
| ntsa  | -2.00 | -6.00 |-10.00 |-14.00 |-18.00 |-22.00 |-23.50 |-23.50 |-23.50 |-25.00 |-28.00 |-31.00 |-34.00 |-37.00 |-40.00 |
+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+

v1.1.5b internal settings
+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
| Param |  -4   |  -3   |  -2   |  -1   |   0   |   1   |   2   |   3   |   4   |   5   |   6   |   7   |   8   |   9   |  10   |
+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
| dbtk  |  2.50 |  2.60 |  2.70 |  2.80 |  2.90 |  3.00 |  3.10 |  3.20 |  3.30 |  3.40 |  3.50 |  3.60 |  3.70 |  3.80 |  3.90 |
| ntsm  | 20.00 | 17.75 | 15.50 | 13.25 | 11.00 |  8.75 |  6.50 |  4.25 |  2.00 | -0.25 | -2.50 | -4.75 | -7.00 | -9.25 |-11.50 |
| ntsa  |-18.00 |-19.00 |-20.00 |-21.00 |-22.00 |-23.00 |-24.00 |-25.00 |-26.00 |-27.00 |-28.00 |-29.00 |-30.00 |-31.00 |-32.00 |
+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+

v1.1.5c internal settings
+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
| Param |  -4   |  -3   |  -2   |  -1   |   0   |   1   |   2   |   3   |   4   |   5   |   6   |   7   |   8   |   9   |  10   |
+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
| dbtk  |  2.50 |  2.64 |  2.78 |  2.92 |  3.06 |  3.19 |  3.33 |  3.47 |  3.61 |  3.75 |  4.00 |  4.25 |  4.50 |  4.75 |  5.00 |
| ntsm  | 20.00 | 17.78 | 15.56 | 13.33 | 11.11 |  8.89 |  6.67 |  4.44 |  2.22 |  0.00 | -2.22 | -4.44 | -6.67 | -8.89 |-11.11 |
| ntsa  |-18.00 |-19.00 |-20.00 |-21.00 |-22.00 |-23.00 |-24.00 |-25.00 |-26.00 |-27.00 |-28.00 |-29.00 |-30.00 |-31.00 |-32.00 |
+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+

nb: dbtk == Dynamic_Bits_To_Keep; ntsm == Noise_Threshold_Shift_Minimum; ntsa == Noise_Threshold_Shift_Average.


Revised 55 problem sample bitrate table:
CODE
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| v1.1.5c | default  | -l 15159 |    -t    |
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q 10.0 | 654kbit/s| 647kbit/s| 623kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q  9.5 | 641kbit/s| 633kbit/s| 612kbit/s|
| -q  9.0 | 628kbit/s| 619kbit/s| 600kbit/s|
| -q  8.5 | 614kbit/s| 605kbit/s| 588kbit/s|
| -q  8.0 | 599kbit/s| 591kbit/s| 577kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q  7.5 | 584kbit/s| 576kbit/s| 565kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q  7.0 | 570kbit/s| 561kbit/s| 553kbit/s|
| -q  6.5 | 555kbit/s| 546kbit/s| 542kbit/s|
| -q  6.0 | 540kbit/s| 531kbit/s| 530kbit/s|
| -q  5.5 | 525kbit/s| 516kbit/s| 518kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q  5.0 | 510kbit/s| 501kbit/s| 506kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q  4.5 | 493kbit/s| 485kbit/s| 495kbit/s|
| -q  4.0 | 477kbit/s| 469kbit/s| 483kbit/s|
| -q  3.5 | 463kbit/s| 456kbit/s| 472kbit/s|
| -q  3.0 | 450kbit/s| 443kbit/s| 461kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q  2.5 | 427kbit/s| 422kbit/s| 441kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q  2.0 | 416kbit/s| 411kbit/s| 431kbit/s|
| -q  1.5 | 389kbit/s| 384kbit/s| 421kbit/s|
| -q  1.0 | 365kbit/s| 362kbit/s| 411kbit/s|
| -q  0.5 | 344kbit/s| 341kbit/s| 401kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q  0.0 | 325kbit/s| 322kbit/s| 391kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+
| -q -0.5 | 306kbit/s| 303kbit/s| 381kbit/s|
| -q -1.0 | 289kbit/s| 287kbit/s| 372kbit/s|
| -q -1.5 | 274kbit/s| 271kbit/s| 363kbit/s|
| -q -2.0 | 259kbit/s| 257kbit/s| 354kbit/s|
| -q -2.5 | 247kbit/s| 245kbit/s| 346kbit/s|
| -q -3.0 | 236kbit/s| 234kbit/s| 337kbit/s|
| -q -3.5 | 226kbit/s| 225kbit/s| 329kbit/s|
| -q -4.0 | 218kbit/s| 217kbit/s| 322kbit/s|
+---------+----------+----------+----------+


CODE
55 Problem Sample Set
+-------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|Version| Settings | FLAC -5  |--insane  |--extreme |--standard|--portable|  --zero  | --nasty  | --awful  |
+-------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|v1.0.0b| default  | 780kbit/s| 655kbit/s| 582kbit/s| 503kbit/s| 417kbit/s| 330kbit/s|----------|----------|
+-------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|v1.1.0c| default  | 780kbit/s| 654kbit/s| 583kbit/s| 508kbit/s| 425kbit/s| 321kbit/s|----------|----------|
+-------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|v1.1.5c| default  | 780kbit/s| 654kbit/s| 585kbit/s| 510kbit/s| 427kbit/s| 325kbit/s| 259kbit/s| 218kbit/s|
|v1.1.5c| -l 15159 | 780kbit/s| 647kbit/s| 576kbit/s| 501kbit/s| 422kbit/s| 322kbit/s| 257kbit/s| 217kbit/s|
|v1.1.5c|    -t    | 780kbit/s| 623kbit/s| 565kbit/s| 506kbit/s| 441kbit/s| 391kbit/s| 354kbit/s| 322kbit/s|
+-------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+

10 Album Test Set
+-------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|Version| Settings | FLAC -5  |--insane  |--extreme |--standard|--portable|  --zero  | --nasty  | --awful  |
+-------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|v1.0.0b| default  | 854kbit/s| 626kbit/s| 539kbit/s| 452kbit/s| 365kbit/s| 295kbit/s|----------|----------|
+-------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|v1.1.0c| default  | 854kbit/s| 632kbit/s| 548kbit/s| 463kbit/s| 376kbit/s| 285kbit/s|----------|----------|
+-------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|v1.1.5c| default  | 854kbit/s| 627kbit/s| 544kbit/s| 460kbit/s| 376kbit/s| 288kbit/s| 230kbit/s| 200kbit/s|
|v1.1.5c| -l 15159 | 854kbit/s| 611kbit/s| 527kbit/s| 444kbit/s| 367kbit/s| 283kbit/s| 228kbit/s| 199kbit/s|
|v1.1.5c|    -t    | 854kbit/s| 582kbit/s| 514kbit/s| 450kbit/s| 385kbit/s| 341kbit/s| 310kbit/s| 283kbit/s|
+-------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+


This post has been edited by Nick.C: Nov 22 2009, 22:19


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halb27
post Nov 22 2009, 21:01
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Thank you, Nick. I like it this way.

Average bitrate for my standard test set is 379 kbps now using -P --altpreset.
It was 380 kbps with version 1.1.5b, and I expected bitrate to go a tiny bit up not down.


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Nick.C
post Nov 22 2009, 21:19
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The noise_threshold_shift_minimum has gone up from 5.375 to 5.555 (more noise) while the dynamic_minimum_bits_to_keep has gone up from 3.15 to 3.40 (more bits to keep). Noise_threshold_shift_average remains the same.


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halb27
post Nov 22 2009, 22:45
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I see, and I like it all.


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Nick.C
post Nov 22 2009, 22:57
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Now, I think that there will be a pause of a number of days for bug-reports followed by the release of v1.2.0.


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Skymmer
post Dec 3 2009, 03:22
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I don't know if situation which I'm going to describe have happened before but, honestly speaking, I'm lazy to read the whole (and no doubt) great topic smile.gif
The deal is that I found a piece of audio data which being proccessed with LossyWAV and then packed with FLAC gives larger files then without LossyWAV. In details. I have the audio image of Elve - Infinite Garden album. Here is the result table:

CODE
Original.wav                        702 775 292
FLAC -8                             265 453 324
LossyWAV -q 10\FLAC -8 -b 512       272 760 641
LossyWAV -q 10 -t\FLAC -8 -b 512    267 741 220

Versions used: LossyWav 1.1.5c, FLAC 1.2.1
Well, I suppose if I will publish this audio here it will be violation so, Nick, if you need it for investigations I can upload it and PM you the link.


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Nick.C
post Dec 3 2009, 07:15
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This does happen occasionally with some types of audio - lossyWAV doesn't remove many (if any) bits from the audio (especially at -q 10) and encoding the result with FLAC -b 512 is less efficient than default the blocksize (4096).

This post has been edited by Nick.C: Dec 3 2009, 07:16


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halb27
post Dec 3 2009, 08:36
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QUOTE (Skymmer @ Dec 3 2009, 03:22) *
...
CODE
Original.wav                        702 775 292
FLAC -8                             265 453 324
LossyWAV -q 10\FLAC -8 -b 512       272 760 641
LossyWAV -q 10 -t\FLAC -8 -b 512    267 741 220

I guess it's the results from 3 different snippets of the track.
The last snippet is interesting showing that it can be quite vital to have the analysis' HF limit a little bit lower than 16 kHz.


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Nick.C
post Dec 3 2009, 08:57
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I think that they are all FLAC (or lossyFLAC) files created from the same WAV file.


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halb27
post Dec 3 2009, 09:19
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But there are three columns. What should they mean if not three different tracks or track snippets?


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Nick.C
post Dec 3 2009, 09:43
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I think that those are 9-digit integers with the commas missing.


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halb27
post Dec 3 2009, 09:51
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I see. I think you are right.
And it would make sense because FLAC is very efficient in this case which is the typical situation where lossyWAV doesn't improve things.

This post has been edited by halb27: Dec 3 2009, 09:54


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Skymmer
post Dec 3 2009, 10:53
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QUOTE (Nick.C @ Dec 3 2009, 09:15) *
This does happen occasionally with some types of audio - lossyWAV doesn't remove many (if any) bits from the audio (especially at -q 10) and encoding the result with FLAC -b 512 is less efficient than default the blocksize (4096).

Thanks. I wonder what's the theoretical probability of appearing of such file(s)?

QUOTE (halb27 @ Dec 3 2009, 11:19) *
But there are three columns. What should they mean if not three different tracks or track snippets?

Nick is right. There is only one column. Its the regional standard in my country to split the digit groups with 0xA0 which is looks like space. Comma used for integer and fractioanal part splitting. I'll take it into account to avoid confusion next time wink.gif


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