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Anyone else use 320 kbps mp3's?, n00b here.
320 kbps mp3's
Do You ever use 320 kbps mp3's?
Yes, rarely. [ 117 ] ** [23.12%]
Yes, often. [ 93 ] ** [18.38%]
No, never. [ 296 ] ** [58.50%]
Can you tell the difference between 256 kbps VBR or CBR mp3's and 320 kbps mp3's?
Yes. [ 48 ] ** [9.49%]
No. [ 434 ] ** [85.77%]
Only between 256 CBR and 320 CBR [ 24 ] ** [4.74%]
Total Votes: 643
  
JAKE196
post Jul 31 2008, 00:28
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Hi, I'm kinda new to compressed audio encoding. . .

My Mp3 player supports mp3, aac, wma, and wav files and after doing a lot of listening to the different lossy formats and bitrates I decided to use 320 mp3's because to my ears they sound almost as good as CD quality, minus the frequency cut off.

I'm just wondering if anyone else here uses 320 kbps mp3's at all?

I've looked at some other threads and a lot of people say that if you are going to use 320 kbps mp3's you might as well use a lossless codec, and I understand that. (however, I use them because my player doesn't support any compressed lossless format)

I've also seen a lot of statements that 320 kbps is a pointless bitrate and something like 256 vbr is the highest thats worth using no matter what. I really don't agree with this, there is definitely an audible difference between 256 CBR or 256 VBR files and 320 files, to my ears anyway. (do I have really good ear's? I'm wondering) I have to admit LAME mp3's can pick up a lot of detail at 256 and 192 kbps, but they still don't sound as good as 320 mp3's.

I usually use 320 kbps mp3's, with the exception of fairly simple songs or exceptionally long songs, for which I use 256 kbps.

Just wanted to express my opinion and see how many other people use them, peace. biggrin.gif

So answer the poll if it works. (this is my first post. . . )

I'll check back later.
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timcupery
post Aug 5 2008, 14:13
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QUOTE (Soap @ Aug 5 2008, 07:30) *
I agree with you throughout this thread, but feel I must be pedantic on this one.

A successful ABX test does not mean he finds the lossless sounds better than the lossy. It means he finds the lossless sounds distinguishably different than the lossy. Nothing more.

This is technically true. But for most people, the point of lossy compression is to sound indistinguishable to the original, but at a much lower bitrate.
So you're right, ABX testing means being able to hear a difference, not being able to hear which one sounds better. But if we assume the whole point of the endeavor is that the lossy sounds like the lossless, the lossy sounding unlike the lossless is worse.

[you're probably on the same page with me here, now that I think about your vs. kornchild's phrasing more carefully, but I figured this is worth elucidating]


--------------------
God kills a kitten every time you encode with CBR 320
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Soap
post Aug 5 2008, 15:51
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QUOTE (timcupery @ Aug 5 2008, 09:13) *
[you're probably on the same page with me here, now that I think about your vs. kornchild's phrasing more carefully, but I figured this is worth elucidating]

Yes I am, I had just come back to clarify my position but you replied first.
I was just trying to be absolutely clear for our self-professed "noob" original poster that ABX testing determines differences, not quality. That quality is subjective and something determined by personal preference.

Clearly in the case of lossless vs lossy there is an ability to ABX (lack of) transparency (and therefore a reasonable claim of "better"), but in the case of lossy vs lossy better is completely subjective.

This post has been edited by Soap: Aug 5 2008, 15:52


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Creature of habit.
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JAKE196
post Aug 6 2008, 03:11
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Am I doing ABX tests the wrong way? Well this is the first time I've done any, someone should have told me.

I don't think comparing .mp3's to .wav's would work because I can always tell between them simply by listening to the cymbals. cymbals often sound like a jingly mess on mp3's but they sound good on .wav's.

. . . I guess that's because the frequency cutoff, before I decided to use mp3's I also tried AAC files with frequency cutoff's at 18khz, 20khz, etc. The cymbals on those files sounded better, but I decided the higher frequency cutoff wasn't worth the extra memory because the difference wasn't that big. Then I eventually decided to stick to mp3's because the frequency cutoff doesn't really effect the music that much. (cymbals, pffft)

I know there has been numerous debates about frequency stuff in the past, and i don't want to start another one, but also note that I am under 20 which means i should be able to hear higher frequencies than middle aged people. (I've at least done my homework on this one) (yay wiki) (also, you know those annoying ring tones that only young ppl can hear? Well if your old you don't, but yeah.)

I have tried comparing lower bitrate files and higher ones and i can tell the difference. . . I don't think comparing mp3's to .wav files would help much. I guess I'll try it just to make sure though, I will compare a 320 kbps mp3 (just to be safe) and a .wav file and see if I can beat an ABX test.

And of course remember that I have so much memory I can use slightly overkill bitrates if i want. smile.gif I'm not going to use 320 kbps any more but i might as well use the highest bitrate for which I can tell the difference between lower ones. If quality is subjective like one of you said, I'll use the highest bitrates I deem fit, ABX tests or not.

Seriously, I got almost 8 gigs and the player wasn't even that expensive. Cheaper than those dam ipods, and better sound output. My Library isn't that big either.

You guys aren't going to convince me to use a lot lower bitrates, but I appreciate the continued input.

. . . and one more time, sorry, I guess you guys were fairly patient considering I was rambling on about something that isn't true. I was quite ignorant.

And all right, I get the point, CBR isn't as good as VBR, I knew that. But it isn't terrible.

That's all my thoughts.

Damn, that has to be one of the longest posts I've ever made on a forum. top 5.
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Synthetic Soul
post Aug 6 2008, 07:41
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QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Aug 6 2008, 03:11) *
I don't think comparing .mp3's to .wav's would work because I can always tell between them simply by listening to the cymbals. cymbals often sound like a jingly mess on mp3's but they sound good on .wav's.
QUOTE
...you do it to yourself, just you; you and no-one else...
You're setting yourself up for a TOS #8 warning here again. For us to continue we really are going to need to see ABX results.

Given your previous misconceptions I am surpised at such a statement. I agree wholeheartedly with shadowking, that you should provide ABX results from tests of various VBR quality levels, and even 320 CBR, given the generalistion (you can tell the difference between any MP3 and a lossless source?). Thankfully, I believe that you are interested enough in the subject to perform these tests, and honest enough to post accurate results (as you have proved).

QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Aug 6 2008, 03:11) *
note that I am under 20
No shit. wink.gif

QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Aug 6 2008, 03:11) *
My Library isn't that big either.
My wife always tells me that size doesn't matter.

QUOTE (greynol @ Aug 6 2008, 03:44) *
For the record, I believe JAKE196. His ability to determine high-bitrate lossy encodings from one another was enough for me.
I agree. He obviously has good hearing and could be a really useful member of the community, if he stops violating TOS #8 and is willing to have an open mind. However, if anyone states that they can tell a difference between (by inference, 320 CBR) MP3 and WAVE we must see ABX results. Them's the rules.

I would dearly love to see JAKE196 post ABX results of lossless/lossy tests, achieve spiritual enlightenment, start wearing a mu'umu'u, and become an active member in the Listening Tests forum. As I am a huge fan of irony I would then, months down the line, love to see him posting in threads like these, batting for the other side.

I miss Guru too BTW. sad.gif I wonder if Gabs still hears from him.


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I'm on a horse.
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Posts in this topic
- JAKE196   Anyone else use 320 kbps mp3's?   Jul 31 2008, 00:28
- - Fandango   When your main playback device for the MP3s is a p...   Jul 31 2008, 00:45
- - incunabula   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Jul 30 2008, 18:28) . . ...   Jul 31 2008, 00:47
- - greynol   Yes, lets see some blind test results, JAKE196.   Jul 31 2008, 00:51
- - Kitsuned   320 is a waste of space with no valuable gain in o...   Jul 31 2008, 01:31
- - JAKE196   Sorry, I should have read the rules, I didn't ...   Jul 31 2008, 01:55
|- - kornchild2002   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Jul 30 2008, 18:55) Sorr...   Jul 31 2008, 03:35
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Jul 30 2008, 20:55) Sorr...   Aug 1 2008, 22:21
- - IgorC   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Jul 30 2008, 20:28) My M...   Jul 31 2008, 01:59
- - shadowking   I never use 320k mp3. I suppose some might use it ...   Jul 31 2008, 02:06
- - lesswire   Hi JAKE196 I'm also new to HA which by the wa...   Jul 31 2008, 03:42
- - greynol   He may as well cut to the chase and ABX -V0 and -b...   Jul 31 2008, 03:56
- - odious_m   Only used -b320 for harpsichord. But now I've...   Jul 31 2008, 05:47
- - zombiewerewolf   I've never use 320kbps personally, only use it...   Jul 31 2008, 06:02
- - twostar   I never have and won't ever encode 320kbps mp3...   Jul 31 2008, 07:05
- - smok3   QUOTE Is there any way we can set up a test on thi...   Jul 31 2008, 08:55
|- - j7n   QUOTE (smok3 @ Jul 31 2008, 10:55) it sho...   Jul 31 2008, 09:48
- - hlloyge   Well, I tend to listen music on the go, on portabl...   Jul 31 2008, 09:03
- - Synthetic Soul   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Jul 31 2008, 01:55) Sorr...   Jul 31 2008, 09:27
- - zorba   Do You ever use 320 kbps mp3's? Yes, often. ...   Jul 31 2008, 09:48
- - smok3   point would be: a. to support lazy users which c...   Jul 31 2008, 10:09
- - 2Bdecided   "Can you tell the difference between 256 kbps...   Jul 31 2008, 10:46
|- - Slipstreem   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jul 31 2008, 10:46) ...   Jul 31 2008, 14:33
|- - JAKE196   "Good for you but that is not what this threa...   Jul 31 2008, 16:23
|- - kornchild2002   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Jul 31 2008, 09:23) ...   Jul 31 2008, 16:51
- - smok3   QUOTE (Synthetic Soul @ Jul 31 2008, 10:2...   Jul 31 2008, 11:57
- - incunabula   Not to beat a dead horse, but you have nothing to ...   Jul 31 2008, 18:50
- - JAKE196   I'll test myself then, what specific program s...   Jul 31 2008, 21:21
|- - tpijag   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Jul 31 2008, 15:21) I...   Jul 31 2008, 21:35
|- - greynol   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Jul 31 2008, 13:21) I wa...   Jul 31 2008, 21:57
|- - kornchild2002   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Jul 31 2008, 14:21) I...   Aug 1 2008, 01:01
|- - sld   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Aug 1 2008, 04:21) but i...   Aug 1 2008, 21:16
- - smok3   there is nothing radical in your point of view and...   Jul 31 2008, 21:30
- - Bodhi   VBR V0 here!   Aug 1 2008, 20:43
|- - Tahnru   QUOTE (Bodhi @ Aug 1 2008, 14:43) VBR V0 ...   Aug 1 2008, 20:44
|- - Bodhi   QUOTE (Tahnru @ Aug 1 2008, 21:44) QUOTE ...   Aug 1 2008, 20:52
- - Tahnru   @ Bodhi Ahhh! Sorry - I have been watching t...   Aug 1 2008, 20:58
|- - Bodhi   QUOTE (Tahnru @ Aug 1 2008, 21:58) @ Bodh...   Aug 1 2008, 21:05
- - HotshotGG   QUOTE I swear I could tell between a high bitrate ...   Aug 1 2008, 22:50
- - JAKE196   Well, I tried a couple of ABX tests and failed. ...   Aug 1 2008, 23:42
|- - Tahnru   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Aug 1 2008, 17:42) Well,...   Aug 1 2008, 23:52
|- - JasonQ   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Aug 1 2008, 17:42) Well,...   Aug 2 2008, 00:25
|- - Synthetic Soul   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Aug 1 2008, 23:42) One m...   Aug 2 2008, 06:52
||- - Bodhi   QUOTE (Synthetic Soul @ Aug 2 2008, 07:52...   Aug 2 2008, 07:36
|||- - Synthetic Soul   QUOTE (Bodhi @ Aug 2 2008, 07:36) Maybe w...   Aug 2 2008, 07:59
|||- - Bodhi   QUOTE (Synthetic Soul @ Aug 2 2008, 08:59...   Aug 2 2008, 08:15
||- - sld   QUOTE (Synthetic Soul @ Aug 2 2008, 13:52...   Aug 2 2008, 09:32
|- - Alexxander   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Aug 2 2008, 00:42) ... I...   Aug 2 2008, 09:01
- - greynol   @JAKE196: Regardless of the result, kudos for tryi...   Aug 2 2008, 00:15
- - kornchild2002   I agree with greynol. Look into using even lower ...   Aug 2 2008, 00:28
- - SpasV   Sorry, I am not going to answer the questions in t...   Aug 2 2008, 04:21
- - j7n   In comment to the very first post: I'd use 32...   Aug 2 2008, 09:26
- - JAKE196   Synthetic Soul, I knew I shouldn't have said ...   Aug 5 2008, 03:01
- - timcupery   Jake, I'm just reading over this thread and wa...   Aug 5 2008, 05:16
- - kornchild2002   It is nice that you are conducting blind ABX tests...   Aug 5 2008, 06:15
|- - Soap   QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Aug 5 2008, 01:15)...   Aug 5 2008, 12:30
- - timcupery   QUOTE (Soap @ Aug 5 2008, 07:30) I agree ...   Aug 5 2008, 14:13
|- - Soap   QUOTE (timcupery @ Aug 5 2008, 09:13) [yo...   Aug 5 2008, 15:51
|- - JAKE196   Am I doing ABX tests the wrong way? Well this is t...   Aug 6 2008, 03:11
|- - greynol   For the record, I believe JAKE196. His ability to...   Aug 6 2008, 03:44
|- - kornchild2002   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Aug 5 2008, 20:11) Am I ...   Aug 6 2008, 03:47
||- - Tahnru   QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Aug 5 2008, 21:47)...   Aug 6 2008, 04:47
|- - Tahnru   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Aug 5 2008, 21:11) Am I ...   Aug 6 2008, 04:20
|- - timcupery   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Aug 5 2008, 22:11) I don...   Aug 6 2008, 04:31
|- - Synthetic Soul   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Aug 6 2008, 03:11) I don...   Aug 6 2008, 07:41
- - lesswire   QUOTE I don't think comparing .mp3's to .w...   Aug 6 2008, 03:25
- - timcupery   Rob - I'd agree with you in technicalities. Bu...   Aug 6 2008, 05:07
|- - kornchild2002   QUOTE (timcupery @ Aug 5 2008, 22:07) Rob...   Aug 6 2008, 06:41
- - Tahnru   As far as the context for HA is concerned, I am in...   Aug 6 2008, 05:28
- - shadowking   I'd like to know what these differences are in...   Aug 6 2008, 05:46
- - smok3   QUOTE note that I am under 20 i belive ~ 25 is the...   Aug 6 2008, 08:12
- - shadowking   I think i've just about read enough of this me...   Aug 6 2008, 08:36
|- - JAKE196   QUOTE (shadowking @ Aug 6 2008, 01:36) I ...   Aug 6 2008, 23:25
||- - Synthetic Soul   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Aug 6 2008, 23:25) So ma...   Aug 7 2008, 09:18
||- - digital_music   Hi, am interested in the general discussion you ar...   Aug 9 2008, 00:14
||- - carpman   QUOTE (digital_music @ Aug 9 2008, 00:14)...   Aug 9 2008, 04:22
|- - DonP   QUOTE (shadowking @ Aug 6 2008, 02:36) I ...   Dec 11 2008, 16:26
- - Slipstreem   Good man! Nobody here is trying to tell you wh...   Aug 7 2008, 04:21
- - JAKE196   Well I've done some more tests and I was surpr...   Aug 8 2008, 21:25
|- - kornchild2002   QUOTE (JAKE196 @ Aug 8 2008, 14:25) One d...   Aug 8 2008, 23:14
- - Slipstreem   Another person who thinks he knows better than the...   Aug 9 2008, 02:58
- - lesswire   QUOTE The actual audio is 'closer' to the ...   Aug 9 2008, 04:08
- - slimserver   From following this thread I went ahead and did an...   Aug 9 2008, 06:12
|- - mr budzone   QUOTE (slimserver @ Aug 9 2008, 07:12) Fr...   Aug 9 2008, 11:07
- - Synthetic Soul   QUOTE (digital_music @ Aug 9 2008, 00:14)...   Aug 9 2008, 08:36
- - xSerpentx   I always stay away from 320, you never know what i...   Dec 13 2008, 02:39
|- - Synthetic Soul   QUOTE (xSerpentx @ Dec 13 2008, 01:39) I ...   Dec 13 2008, 09:54
- - bwat47   320 kb/s mp3s are a total waste of space.   Feb 21 2009, 16:08
- - kwanbis   This post needs more votes, so it is more represen...   Feb 21 2009, 20:56
- - B7k   I have only used Mpeg-1 layer2 (Mp2) @320kbps or A...   Apr 14 2009, 07:18
- - Rei Murasame   QUOTE (digital_music @ Aug 9 2008, 00:14)...   Jul 3 2009, 21:00
|- - rpp3po   QUOTE (Rei Murasame @ Jul 3 2009, 22:00) ...   Jul 3 2009, 21:30
|- - /mnt   QUOTE (Rei Murasame @ Jul 3 2009, 21:00) ...   Jul 3 2009, 22:57
- - Eli   I use lossless (FLAC) for archiving and ABR ~128 m...   Jul 3 2009, 23:07
- - gorgekko   I use VBR. Back in ye olden dayes when MP3s were n...   Jul 4 2009, 01:04
- - Rei Murasame   QUOTE (/mnt @ Jul 3 2009, 22:57) QUOTE (R...   Jul 4 2009, 03:19
|- - /mnt   QUOTE (Rei Murasame @ Jul 4 2009, 03:19) ...   Jul 4 2009, 12:21
|- - Rei Murasame   QUOTE (/mnt @ Jul 4 2009, 12:21) Precho o...   Jul 4 2009, 20:03
- - shadowking   320k for transform codecs is too high because wavp...   Jul 4 2009, 16:47
- - /mnt   QUOTE (shadowking @ Jul 4 2009, 16:47) It...   Jul 4 2009, 19:18
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