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SHM-CD Format: Hype or Hope?, Metallica's New Album
Livy
post Jul 29 2008, 14:06
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There's been a lot of discussion over at SA-CD Net about SHM-CD's and whether the "clearer plastic" technology they use generates any actual improvement in sound quality. Many people simply don't believe that would be possible. Metallica's new album - Death Magnetic - is going to be released in Japan in SHM-CD format.

I'm not very knowledgeable about this area - does anyone here know more or have opinions about SHM-CD?

Edit: I've read that mastering engineer Ted Jansen is going to working on this album - whether as mastering and recording engineer, I don't know.

This post has been edited by Livy: Jul 29 2008, 15:48
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Axon
post May 21 2009, 03:00
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A couple of incredibly bizarre threads over at sh.tv has uncovered hard evidence (some contributed by yours truly) that some SHM-CDs contain more clipping than their normal CD counterparts. On a LZ SHM-CD specifically:

QUOTE (me)
Quite simply, the only difference between the SHM CD and the Marino master, as indicated by these samples, is an extra 0.6db of gain, and additional brickwall clipping.


There are also diverse examples provided of the SHM-CD digital content being exactly the same (or suspected to be the same from track peaks) as the normal CD counterparts. Even then, several individuals are adamant that SHM-CDs sound better than their normal counterparts (even with the ones with increasing clipping). There has been absolutely no evidence found of any SHM-CD having a higher quality digital master than its normal CD counterpart.

The manufacturing technology has not been shown to give no benefit under normal CD playback conditions. But if all you're going to do is rip it to your computer, there's provably no benefit to SHM-CD.
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krabapple
post May 21 2009, 17:25
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QUOTE (Axon @ May 20 2009, 22:00) *
A couple of incredibly bizarre threads over at sh.tv has uncovered hard evidence (some contributed by yours truly) that some SHM-CDs contain more clipping than their normal CD counterparts. On a LZ SHM-CD specifically:Quite simply, the only difference between the SHM CD and the Marino master, as indicated by these samples, is an extra 0.6db of gain, and additional brickwall clipping.



You mean, the supposed virtues of the format are offset by the actual mastering? Shocking. wink.gif

QUOTE
There are also diverse examples provided of the SHM-CD digital content being exactly the same (or suspected to be the same from track peaks) as the normal CD counterparts. Even then, several individuals are adamant that SHM-CDs sound better than their normal counterparts (even with the ones with increasing clipping). There has been absolutely no evidence found of any SHM-CD having a higher quality digital master than its normal CD counterpart.


Several individuals on Hoffman's forum are clueless jackasses as regards audio.

This post has been edited by krabapple: May 21 2009, 17:26
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ShowsOn
post May 21 2009, 17:45
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QUOTE (krabapple @ May 22 2009, 01:25) *
Several individuals on Hoffman's forum are clueless jackasses as regards audio.

The scary one was the mastering 'engineer' Barry Diament's contributions to the thread where he refused to accept that when the WAV comparator in Exact Audio Copy says two WAVs are identical, that that would mean they are exactly the same mastering. He kept on saying the only way to be sure is to null the files after ensuring that the first samples line up.

I guess it proves that you don't need a degree in audio engineering to be a mastering 'engineer'.


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www.petitiononline.com/RHCPWBCD/petition.html
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krabapple
post May 21 2009, 18:14
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QUOTE (ShowsOn @ May 21 2009, 12:45) *
QUOTE (krabapple @ May 22 2009, 01:25) *
Several individuals on Hoffman's forum are clueless jackasses as regards audio.

The scary one was the mastering 'engineer' Barry Diament's contributions to the thread where he refused to accept that when the WAV comparator in Exact Audio Copy says two WAVs are identical, that that would mean they are exactly the same mastering. He kept on saying the only way to be sure is to null the files after ensuring that the first samples line up.

I guess it proves that you don't need a degree in audio engineering to be a mastering 'engineer'.



IME Diament's a fountain of dubious 'information' and audiophoolery. And in the end he will *always* retreat to 'I hear it, and that's all that matters'.


And they worship him on SH.tv.


Btw, Diament makes available a 24/96 vs 16/44 comparison , that HA might be interested in . Hosted here:


http://www.soundkeeperrecordings.com/format.htm
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ShowsOn
post May 22 2009, 14:08
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QUOTE (krabapple @ May 22 2009, 03:14) *
IME Diament's a fountain of dubious 'information' and audiophoolery. And in the end he will *always* retreat to 'I hear it, and that's all that matters'.

Yeah, he is one of those people that argues that CDs made from exactly the same digital master can sound different simply because they were made in different pressing facilities, even if the discs contain identical data. This usually cues a pointless 'discussions' about jitter.

I can't imagine discussing SHM-CD with someone who believes identical bits can produce varying sound (in a properly functioning player) will prove particularly fruitful.

I haven't used EAC for a long time (I Use dBpowerAMP ripper), but doesn't it have a setting to delete silent samples at the start of files to ensure that the files will line up perfectly when compared?

i.e. an otherwise identical mastering may include slightly different indexing that appears as digital silence just before the track starts?

This post has been edited by ShowsOn: May 22 2009, 14:10


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Posts in this topic
- Livy   SHM-CD Format: Hype or Hope?   Jul 29 2008, 14:06
- - odyssey   I quickly found this rather amusing thread elsewhe...   Jul 29 2008, 14:12
|- - Fandango   QUOTE (odyssey @ Jul 29 2008, 15:12) I qu...   Jul 29 2008, 17:07
|- - Bodhi   QUOTE (odyssey @ Jul 29 2008, 15:12) A di...   Aug 2 2008, 23:09
- - Rain   Does it matter? The album's going to be as lou...   Jul 29 2008, 15:01
- - unfortunateson   bits are bits.   Jul 29 2008, 18:43
- - giopiar   This is a semplification, but you could imagine an...   Jul 29 2008, 20:48
- - .halverhahn   Digital data are media independent. Even you write...   Aug 1 2008, 22:27
- - Sebastian Mares   I once wrote an e-mail to Stereo or some other mag...   Aug 1 2008, 23:02
- - Tahnru   I'm going to buy one of these, draw a green ri...   Aug 1 2008, 23:23
|- - Sebastian Mares   QUOTE (Tahnru @ Aug 2 2008, 00:23) What d...   Aug 1 2008, 23:55
|- - uzernaam   QUOTE (Tahnru @ Aug 2 2008, 00:23) ... My...   Oct 17 2010, 10:56
- - Tahnru   Oh I know! And you can't even make it fro...   Aug 2 2008, 00:17
|- - me7   QUOTE (Tahnru @ Aug 2 2008, 01:17) ...or ...   Aug 2 2008, 01:36
|- - honestguv   QUOTE (me7 @ Aug 2 2008, 02:36) QUOTE (Ta...   Aug 2 2008, 12:00
|- - Silversight   QUOTE (honestguv @ Aug 2 2008, 13:00) Why...   Aug 2 2008, 16:34
||- - Fandango   QUOTE (Silversight @ Aug 2 2008, 17:34) T...   Aug 2 2008, 18:13
||- - honestguv   QUOTE (Silversight @ Aug 2 2008, 17:34) T...   Aug 2 2008, 21:06
|- - greynol   QUOTE (honestguv @ Aug 2 2008, 04:00) I w...   Aug 2 2008, 18:51
- - Egor   Bi-wiring/amping concept itself isn't a bad th...   Aug 2 2008, 08:31
|- - Tahnru   QUOTE (Egor @ Aug 2 2008, 02:31) Bi-wirin...   Aug 6 2008, 06:30
- - greynol   I can assure you that my hyperbole was intentional...   Aug 2 2008, 21:12
|- - honestguv   QUOTE (greynol @ Aug 2 2008, 22:12) I can...   Aug 2 2008, 22:21
- - greynol   No apologies necessary. I wouldn't expect you...   Aug 2 2008, 22:41
- - insane_alien   SHM-CD = SHAM-CD a bit for bit copy is the same n...   Aug 3 2008, 01:47
- - Tahnru   I had wanted to post this to the thread, but I for...   Aug 5 2008, 22:21
- - Axon   A couple of incredibly bizarre threads over at sh....   May 21 2009, 03:00
|- - WonderSlug   I'd rather they spend time on better manufactu...   May 21 2009, 05:04
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (Axon @ May 20 2009, 22:00) A coupl...   May 21 2009, 17:25
|- - ShowsOn   QUOTE (krabapple @ May 22 2009, 01:25) Se...   May 21 2009, 17:45
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (ShowsOn @ May 21 2009, 12:45) QUOT...   May 21 2009, 18:14
||- - ShowsOn   QUOTE (krabapple @ May 22 2009, 03:14) IM...   May 22 2009, 14:08
|- - WonderSlug   QUOTE (ShowsOn @ May 21 2009, 09:45) QUOT...   May 21 2009, 18:50
|- - hlloyge   QUOTE (WonderSlug @ May 21 2009, 19:50) I...   May 23 2009, 08:57
- - ShowsOn   I gave up on that thread around page 40.   May 21 2009, 05:28
- - Seeking_Lossless   Even on vinyl also that album still clip. It's...   May 21 2009, 17:46
- - dev   The propaganda; only thing i can think of, they pr...   May 22 2009, 16:01
- - Nick.C   More like the "land of the unknowing" - ...   May 23 2009, 09:32
- - jimmy69   Holy moly! The couple of comments about more ...   Oct 17 2010, 12:28
- - Squeller   Well, there's an Article in Stereo magazine (g...   Oct 24 2012, 19:15
- - rod   Hi, is true, bits are bits, but we need bits in t...   Nov 10 2013, 21:25
- - db1989   Do you have any evidence that jitter in typical CD...   Nov 10 2013, 21:53
- - lvqcl   It's simply not possible to read CD sample by ...   Nov 10 2013, 22:06
|- - knutinh   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Nov 10 2013, 22:06) It...   Nov 11 2013, 14:41
|- - Glenn Gundlach   QUOTE (knutinh @ Nov 11 2013, 05:41) The ...   Nov 12 2013, 07:12
- - extrabigmehdi   This thread has been resurrected, so I'd take ...   Nov 10 2013, 22:26
- - db1989   Which is nothing inherent to the format, just bad ...   Nov 10 2013, 23:04
- - unfinished.hide   A couple of years ago I came across a SHM-CD, Bon ...   Nov 11 2013, 13:20
- - rod   If anyone want to know more about jitter may read ...   Nov 11 2013, 17:03
- - greynol   Rather than more hit-and-run posting, maybe you ca...   Nov 11 2013, 17:41
|- - knutinh   QUOTE (greynol @ Nov 11 2013, 17:41) Rath...   Nov 11 2013, 21:34
|- - pdq   QUOTE (knutinh @ Nov 11 2013, 15:34) QUOT...   Nov 11 2013, 21:43
- - krabapple   Bob Katz has an unfortunate habit of citing 'b...   Nov 11 2013, 21:07
- - extrabigmehdi   QUOTE (krabapple @ Nov 11 2013, 20:07) Bo...   Nov 12 2013, 01:37


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