IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

7 Pages V  « < 3 4 5 6 7 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Nine Inch Nails Download latest album, enjoy
SamHain86
post May 12 2008, 09:14
Post #101





Group: Members
Posts: 432
Joined: 1-January 07
From: Luebeck, DE
Member No.: 39196



To be clear, as I can't find news, have the NIN engineers released a real fixed 24/96 WAV download yet?

This post has been edited by SamHain86: May 12 2008, 09:15


--------------------
OP can't edit initial post when a solution is determined :'-(
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
james.miller
post May 12 2008, 09:19
Post #102





Group: Members
Posts: 11
Joined: 16-January 04
Member No.: 11286



QUOTE (SamHain86 @ May 12 2008, 00:14) *
To be clear, as I can't find news, have the NIN engineers released a real fixed 24/96 WAV download yet?



ill be able to tell you in about....12 minutes. the filesizes are exactly the same so i dont know, but being wav that could just mean they didnt alter the track lengths at all, right?
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
james.miller
post May 12 2008, 09:42
Post #103





Group: Members
Posts: 11
Joined: 16-January 04
Member No.: 11286



QUOTE (james.miller @ May 12 2008, 00:19) *
QUOTE (SamHain86 @ May 12 2008, 00:14) *

To be clear, as I can't find news, have the NIN engineers released a real fixed 24/96 WAV download yet?



ill be able to tell you in about....12 minutes. the filesizes are exactly the same so i dont know, but being wav that could just mean they didnt alter the track lengths at all, right?



nope, they are the same files unfortunately:(

This post has been edited by james.miller: May 12 2008, 09:43
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
SamHain86
post May 12 2008, 09:50
Post #104





Group: Members
Posts: 432
Joined: 1-January 07
From: Luebeck, DE
Member No.: 39196



QUOTE (james.miller @ May 12 2008, 08:42) *
nope, they are the same files unfortunately:(
Blast! I have been checking NIN for some news that the files were not true 24/96 but have not seen anything. I have been watching this forum keenly for news that the files have been updated. So when there is news, someone post it, please!


--------------------
OP can't edit initial post when a solution is determined :'-(
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
bryant
post May 12 2008, 13:52
Post #105


WavPack Developer


Group: Developer (Donating)
Posts: 1297
Joined: 3-January 02
From: San Francisco CA
Member No.: 900



QUOTE (skamp @ May 10 2008, 14:30) *
If transcoding from such files doesn't add the kind of artifacts one would get from psychoacoustic files, your idea sounds like a fair deal to me (for high-res files, at least, as far as distribution goes). I'm gonna try it with WavPack 4.50.0 beta on my DVD-Audio rips.

Thanks, skamp, I'd be interested in hearing your impressions.

And just to be clear, the dynamic noise shaping from the beta should not be used for these files. The best noise shaping (IMO) for high sampling rate files would normally be -s1.0 and this is the default behavior for both version 4.41 and the 4.50 beta. This reduces the noise in the audible spectrum significantly.


QUOTE (Axon @ May 10 2008, 15:37) *
It's worth noting that the same advantages also apply to lossyWAV, IIRC, with the additional advantage that it is compatible with FLAC. (albeit not Apple Lossless.) But I'm not sure if it's ready for prime time yet.

It would certainly be interesting to see what LossyWAV does with these, but I believe that for high sampling rate files the noise shaping that WavPack applies would be significant (much more so than with CD audio).
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
2Bdecided
post May 12 2008, 15:17
Post #106


ReplayGain developer


Group: Developer
Posts: 5364
Joined: 5-November 01
From: Yorkshire, UK
Member No.: 409



QUOTE (bryant @ May 12 2008, 13:52) *
QUOTE (Axon @ May 10 2008, 15:37) *

It's worth noting that the same advantages also apply to lossyWAV, IIRC, with the additional advantage that it is compatible with FLAC. (albeit not Apple Lossless.) But I'm not sure if it's ready for prime time yet.

It would certainly be interesting to see what LossyWAV does with these, but I believe that for high sampling rate files the noise shaping that WavPack applies would be significant (much more so than with CD audio).

lossyWAV would do quite a different job...

If there are areas of the spectrum with little or no content, it will preserve these "empty" areas (i.e. not add noise), and so drive the bitrate up.

By default, lossyWAV doesn't look above 16kHz when carrying out this analysis, so it won't "see" the empty area above 24kHz in a "48kHz resampled to 96kHz" recording, so this won't bloat the bitrate, but will have some noise added (but no more than the audible range - there's no noise shaping).


If the content is basically loud all across the spectrum lossyWAV checks (i.e. below 16kHz), it will quantise just below the quietest spectral area in this range, and so drive the bitrate down on loud recordings. You can easily be left with less than 16-bits (sometimes as few as 8!); no hope of keeping "nearly 24" in parts where 16 is judged more than enough.

Cheers,
David.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Synthetic Soul
post May 12 2008, 19:35
Post #107





Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 4887
Joined: 12-August 04
From: Exeter, UK
Member No.: 16217



Discussion regarding the artistic merits of The Slip moved to Nine Inch Nails' The Slip: Your Thoughts, in General Music Discussion.

Let's keep this thread for discussion on the technical aspects of the release (audio formats, distribution philosophy, etc.).


--------------------
I'm on a horse.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Nick.C
post May 13 2008, 07:55
Post #108


lossyWAV Developer


Group: Developer
Posts: 1815
Joined: 11-April 07
From: Wherever here is
Member No.: 42400



QUOTE (bryant @ May 12 2008, 13:52) *
QUOTE (Axon @ May 10 2008, 15:37) *
It's worth noting that the same advantages also apply to lossyWAV, IIRC, with the additional advantage that it is compatible with FLAC. (albeit not Apple Lossless.) But I'm not sure if it's ready for prime time yet.
It would certainly be interesting to see what LossyWAV does with these, but I believe that for high sampling rate files the noise shaping that WavPack applies would be significant (much more so than with CD audio).
At present lossyWAV 1.0.0 will do exactly nothing with either the FLAC or the 24bit 96kHz versions of The Slip, other than exit with an error code. This is due to a 'PAD ' chunk inserted before the 'data' chunk in the WAV file. As I had not found the 'PAD ' chunk in the WAV specification documents that I googled / wikipedia'd it has not (yet) been included in the list of chunks recognised by lossyWAV. This will, of course, be remedied and 1.0.0b released ASA®P.


--------------------
lossyWAV -q X -a 4 --feedback 4| FLAC -8 ~= 320kbps
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
ningeneer
post May 13 2008, 15:38
Post #109





Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 8-May 08
Member No.: 53384



QUOTE (randal1013 @ May 10 2008, 11:24) *
since there are issues with the 24/96 version of the slip, i wonder if there are similar issues with the 24/96 version of ghosts? they made ghosts first and then the slip, if they followed ghosts as a guide for the slip, and the slip has issues, what does that mean for ghosts?


No. Ghosts was mastered by a different engineer at a different mastering studio, using different software, etc.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Nick.C
post May 13 2008, 19:05
Post #110


lossyWAV Developer


Group: Developer
Posts: 1815
Joined: 11-April 07
From: Wherever here is
Member No.: 42400



QUOTE (Nick.C @ May 13 2008, 07:55) *
At present lossyWAV 1.0.0 will do exactly nothing with either the FLAC or the 24bit 96kHz versions of The Slip, other than exit with an error code. This is due to a 'PAD ' chunk inserted before the 'data' chunk in the WAV file. As I had not found the 'PAD ' chunk in the WAV specification documents that I googled / wikipedia'd it has not (yet) been included in the list of chunks recognised by lossyWAV. This will, of course, be remedied and 1.0.0b released ASA®P.
I've fixed the unknown chunk error to an extent that I can process the two versions of the album:

24bit / 96kHz : 1822kbps FLAC > 697kbps lossyFLAC -q 5.

16bit / 44.1kHz : 797kbps FLAC > 471kbps lossyFLAC -q 5

I would expect to post lossyWAV 1.0.0b tonight.


--------------------
lossyWAV -q X -a 4 --feedback 4| FLAC -8 ~= 320kbps
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Frankie
post May 13 2008, 20:43
Post #111





Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 14-June 03
Member No.: 7175



I got the FLACs from archive.org today and wonder if there's something wrong with these files, because audio identifier can't read them:






Does anybody else have this problem?
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
alvaro84
post May 13 2008, 21:20
Post #112





Group: Members
Posts: 128
Joined: 9-August 06
Member No.: 33830



QUOTE (Frankie @ May 13 2008, 21:43) *
I got the FLACs from archive.org today and wonder if there's something wrong with these files, because audio identifier can't read them:


Do they play normally?
Is that possible that audio identifier can't handle their embedded album art? (I love this feature in these digital NIN releases: I got wonderful slide shows with their albums smile.gif)
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Ron Jones
post May 14 2008, 20:03
Post #113





Group: Members
Posts: 412
Joined: 9-August 07
From: Los Angeles
Member No.: 46048



QUOTE (Frankie @ May 13 2008, 11:43) *
Does anybody else have this problem?

foobar seems to have no difficulty identifying track length, bit rate and so forth. I'll take a look at the nin.com FLACs in Audio Identifier later today to see if it has any difficulties.

I don't recall having any issues with AI reading FLACs with embedded album art before, so this may actually be something else (or just an AI glitch).
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jebus
post May 14 2008, 20:09
Post #114





Group: Developer
Posts: 1327
Joined: 17-March 03
From: Calgary, AB
Member No.: 5541



QUOTE (Nick.C @ May 13 2008, 00:55) *
QUOTE (bryant @ May 12 2008, 13:52) *
QUOTE (Axon @ May 10 2008, 15:37) *
It's worth noting that the same advantages also apply to lossyWAV, IIRC, with the additional advantage that it is compatible with FLAC. (albeit not Apple Lossless.) But I'm not sure if it's ready for prime time yet.
It would certainly be interesting to see what LossyWAV does with these, but I believe that for high sampling rate files the noise shaping that WavPack applies would be significant (much more so than with CD audio).
At present lossyWAV 1.0.0 will do exactly nothing with either the FLAC or the 24bit 96kHz versions of The Slip, other than exit with an error code. This is due to a 'PAD ' chunk inserted before the 'data' chunk in the WAV file. As I had not found the 'PAD ' chunk in the WAV specification documents that I googled / wikipedia'd it has not (yet) been included in the list of chunks recognised by lossyWAV. This will, of course, be remedied and 1.0.0b released ASA®P.


A chunk doesn't have to be defined for it to exist (legally) within a wave file. The only requirement is that the data chunk follows the fmt chunk, but there can be other (undocumented) chunks in-between. Instead of skipping certain known chunks, you should just use a "seekTo(string chunkID)" function to find the data chunk after parsing fmt. It's easy to do; each chunk, even if undocumented, starts with a chunk size. also, don't forget to word-align the size field (chunkSize += chunkSize % 2).

I know, lots (most?) wave readers do the same thing you do, but it is still incorrect.

This post has been edited by Jebus: May 14 2008, 20:12
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
treznor
post May 14 2008, 20:39
Post #115





Group: Members
Posts: 1
Joined: 14-May 08
Member No.: 53512



Gents-
Thanks for the heads up regarding this matter. The corrected files are now posted on our site and if you re-download them they will be the correct ones.
What happened? We mastered this on Friday (5/2) and released it Sunday night. The files went right from mastering to the server without the proper scrutiny (aside from a cursory listen for errors). The last two songs were different because they were redone due to an audible error we did find.
Bottom line: some sort of mastering shenanigans took place.
In addition, there are now 24/96 FLAC files as well as wave files.

BTW, the record was recorded at 24/96 using a Lavry AD122-96MKIII, Antelope's Isochrone OCX clock and mixed in analog through the SSL AWS 900+. We mixed back into Pro Tools through the Lavry as well as a separate rig running at 24/192 using Apogee A/D. The mixes we chose varied song to song based on what sounded best to us.

Trent Reznor
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Ron Jones
post May 14 2008, 20:54
Post #116





Group: Members
Posts: 412
Joined: 9-August 07
From: Los Angeles
Member No.: 46048



Great news! Thank you Trent.

It's actually rather interesting to hear that you guys are using the Isochrone. Since its release some time ago, I haven't actually seen anyone using it in the wild, which is surprising to me given how damn nifty that box is.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jebus
post May 14 2008, 21:00
Post #117





Group: Developer
Posts: 1327
Joined: 17-March 03
From: Calgary, AB
Member No.: 5541



QUOTE (treznor @ May 14 2008, 13:39) *
BTW, the record was recorded at 24/96 using a Lavry AD122-96MKIII, Antelope's Isochrone OCX clock and mixed in analog through the SSL AWS 900+. We mixed back into Pro Tools through the Lavry as well as a separate rig running at 24/192 using Apogee A/D. The mixes we chose varied song to song based on what sounded best to us.

Trent Reznor


Thanks buddy! I wish more rock stars were computer nerds at heart. See you at Pemberton!

This post has been edited by Jebus: May 14 2008, 21:03
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
alvaro84
post May 14 2008, 21:22
Post #118





Group: Members
Posts: 128
Joined: 9-August 06
Member No.: 33830



Magnificent! What can I say? Thank you (again), I'm downloading the new flac files right now (while listening the older version, it'll take some time)...
You guys gave us great support smile.gif I regret that I couldn't visit your concert last summer here in Hungary (I couldn't get a day off sad.gif)...

This post has been edited by alvaro84: May 14 2008, 21:52
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
james.miller
post May 14 2008, 21:33
Post #119





Group: Members
Posts: 11
Joined: 16-January 04
Member No.: 11286



thats great news. Thanks for taking the time to tell us personally! awesome stuff:)
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
retro83
post May 14 2008, 22:57
Post #120





Group: Members
Posts: 87
Joined: 12-January 08
Member No.: 50400



QUOTE (treznor @ May 14 2008, 20:39) *
Gents-
...
Trent Reznor


Just to re-iterate what was said above, thanks for taking the time to do this. Will be adding this to my archive shortly! cool.gif
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Axon
post May 14 2008, 23:04
Post #121





Group: Members (Donating)
Posts: 1985
Joined: 4-January 04
From: Austin, TX
Member No.: 10933



All together now:

thank you.

QUOTE (treznor @ May 14 2008, 14:39) *
BTW, the record was recorded at 24/96 using a Lavry AD122-96MKIII, Antelope's Isochrone OCX clock and mixed in analog through the SSL AWS 900+. We mixed back into Pro Tools through the Lavry as well as a separate rig running at 24/192 using Apogee A/D. The mixes we chose varied song to song based on what sounded best to us.


Soooo I don't think anybody will be accusing you of not being an audiophile!

The parallel A/D conversions (to both the Lavry and the Apogee) is interesting, though. Was the 24/192 rig the source of the 24/96 files, and not the source of the 16/44 files? If so, and if the Isochrone was perhaps not used for the Apogee mastering, then that explains the 14ppm speed difference.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
HeavensBlade23
post May 15 2008, 01:08
Post #122





Group: Members
Posts: 21
Joined: 16-January 06
Member No.: 27153



Thanks, Trent, I'm impressed.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
DARcode
post May 15 2008, 02:01
Post #123





Group: Members (Donating)
Posts: 682
Joined: 10-January 05
From: Italy
Member No.: 18968



Awesome! Thanks so much Mr. Reznor! Always enjoyed checking you out live, cheers.


--------------------
WavPack 4.70.0 -b384hx6cmv/qaac 2.43 -V 100
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
sauvage78
post May 15 2008, 02:21
Post #124





Group: Members
Posts: 677
Joined: 4-May 08
Member No.: 53282



I have just re-downloaded both the new 24bits FLAC & WAV files, decompressed the FLAC files with foobar2000, & checked if the CRC of the decoded new FLAC files matched with the CRC of the new WAV files ... it didn't ... is it normal ? I don't have the old WAV files anymore to compare with the two new ones.

Here is my 2 MD5 checksums, if anyone is willing to compare it with the old (bad) WAV files.

Decoded FLAC (24Bits):
8b60e0ac97c9ff5ce58f1e3529b2d2dc *01 999,999.wav

Raw WAV (24Bits):
4753a0e50b01e445b9bbe441988fb86e *01 999,999.wav

This post has been edited by sauvage78: May 15 2008, 04:29


--------------------
CDImage+CUE
Secure [Low/C2/AR(2)]
Flac -4
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mcpancakes
post May 15 2008, 03:17
Post #125





Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 1-January 08
Member No.: 50028



Thanks Trent. As a guy a couple posts up from me said, I wish more bands that I liked were good with tech enough to give us cool stuff like this.

This post has been edited by mcpancakes: May 15 2008, 03:17
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

7 Pages V  « < 3 4 5 6 7 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 29th December 2014 - 03:34