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ripping DVD-A + converting to multichannel FLAC
CoyoteSmith
post Jan 30 2008, 03:48
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hello, i've been reading about this topic with a bit of confusion. a few posts on hydrogen forums and wikipedia say that DVD-A has protection, however i've copied the AUDIO_TS folders to my computer (decrypting the VIDEO_TS folder via DVDDecrypter) and the DVD-A plays fine from my computer. i've done this with releases from major studios such as the Nine Inch Nails With Teeth and the Downward Spiral, David Bowie's Reality and Megadeths Peace Sells But Who's Buying. bascially all i did was copy these folders (right click+copy) and paste them alongside my VIDEO_TS from the DVD-A and they play fine. so i'm wondering what the deal is with the so called copyprotection of these, did the labels give up when the protection was cracked or am i missing something.

Also anyway to get these into 5.1 flacs without buying an expensive program?
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Light-Fire
post Jan 30 2008, 06:16
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You probably just extracted the audio of the DVD Video part of your DVD-A disc.
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CoyoteSmith
post Jan 30 2008, 20:13
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QUOTE (Light-Fire @ Jan 30 2008, 00:16) *
You probably just extracted the audio of the DVD Video part of your DVD-A disc.

hmmm/ i got the audio from the AUDIO_TS folder
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rohangc
post Jan 31 2008, 05:12
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I have just one DVD-A disc - Iron Maiden's "Dance of Death". Is it possible for me to simply make an ISO image of the disc, mount using Daemon Tools? If that is possible, then I guess I will settle for this way of making a backup copy of the disc - for now.
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CoyoteSmith
post Feb 3 2008, 18:14
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nothing? from hydrogen of all places?
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fj4
post Feb 3 2008, 20:40
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I think nobody's touching this one because of the copy-protection issues.
Copy/paste, DVDDecrypter, etc. won't copy your DVD-Audio discs.

If I recall, you need DVD Audio Explorer, which breaks the CPPM disc copy-protection, making it illegal in countries with DMCA-type laws. That gives you MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing) files, that you need to run through a specially hacked version of SurCode MLP, which costs US$2495.
Then you are left with 6 wav's, one for each channel. Now you can make 6-channel flac's, all that's left is to code the software player to handle them! wink.gif

edit: rohangc, DVDFab HD Decrypter may be able rip an iso of DVD-Audio discs. If it does correctly, and you have PC software capable of DVD-Audio playback, I think that Daemon Tools would work.

This post has been edited by fj4: Feb 3 2008, 20:51
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bertox
post Feb 4 2008, 19:51
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Yes, DVDAudio Explorer is the thing.

But...not...surcodeMLP....Eac3to is very much easier....and free!!!

If you use Eac3toGui just rename your MLP files into *.thd or *.dtshd....MLP extension don't work properly....despite that the app IS working with MLP files.

Hope that helps...., works for me....every day.biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by bertox: Feb 4 2008, 21:31
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fj4
post Feb 4 2008, 22:59
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Nice! tongue.gif

How do you listen to files backed up this way? As 6-channel wav's?
edit: Duh... from the flac homepage:
How many channels does FLAC support?

FLAC supports from 1 to 8 channels per stream. Channels are only grouped in FLAC to take advantage of interchannel correlation and to define common channel assignments (like stereo L/R, 5.1 surround, et cetera). When encoding a large number of independent channels it is expected that they are coded separately and if required, multiplexed together in a suitable container like Ogg or Matroska.

Sadly, SPDIF doesn't have enough bandwidth to carry this. Analog connections only?

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eevan
post Feb 5 2008, 00:20
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QUOTE
...MLP extension don't work properly...

Maybe it worked for me because it was a 2 channel MLP. Anyway, it's a great tool!
CODE
MLP, 2.0 channels, 24 bits, 192khz
Writing WAV...
Creating/writing file "D:\Install\Audio software\DVD-A tools\eac3to\test.wav"...
[libav] End of stream indicated
eac3to processing took 4 seconds.
Done.


EDIT: I've compressed the resulting file with flac 1.2.1 using -8 and the resulting flac file was 3,4 MB smaller than the source MLP! biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by eevan: Feb 5 2008, 00:27


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bertox
post Feb 5 2008, 02:35
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Coaxial spdif have only bandwith for 16bit 44.1/48 KHZ.....but not 24/96 5.1; btw..optical spdif yes have bandwidth at all.

There are innumerable modes to listen 6 channel wavs.

For analog you can use the Foobar's 5.1 plugin, Channel mixer or Matrix Mixer. Mplayer Classic with FFdshow too....and the list continues...

I'll recommend Foobar2000 because its KernelStreaming output. Winamp have KS output (with plugin) too, and the lastest versions support 5.1.

@eevan

I say in Eac3toGui MLP extension don't work properly, which is different to eac3to only. And only the extension *.mlp, not the file. Then I say to re-name it extension.

Not necessarily an -8 flac encoding do this file size. -4 encoding its ok, and don't stress the player as much than -8 does.
------------------------------------

An advise to you: don't move the mouse or do something in PC until eac3to detect the Mlp file and start decoding, if you do so it may fail detecting the file.smile.gif


bye.

This post has been edited by bertox: Feb 5 2008, 02:53
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eevan
post Feb 5 2008, 03:40
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Thanks for suggestions.
In fact, I did the conversion from Eac3toGui smile.gif
QUOTE
Coaxial spdif have only bandwith for 16bit 44.1/48 KHZ.....but not 24/96 5.1; btw..optical spdif yes have bandwidth at all.
Sorry, I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying.
The protocol is designed to transfer only 2 audio channels (because there are only 2 subframes) of maximum 24 data bits through SPDIF. Bandwidth is not an issue, and certainly not the type of physical connection.


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CoyoteSmith
post Feb 5 2008, 04:59
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hmmm, but this doesnt seem to answer why i'm able to copy the AUDIO_TS folder and play it back without errors. i've played the 5.1 mix and the stereomix on my computer (of course i dont have a 5.1 system on my computer, but both played fine none-the-less). i simply do not understand how i'm able to rewrite the rules of DVD-A huh.gif
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bertox
post Feb 5 2008, 06:15
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@eevan:

Eac3toGui don't open MLP files as is to me until i re-name its extensions. Are you shure about this?? Eac3toGui don't permit MLP files as sources. But eac3to yes.

I know that receivers are using optical wires to interconnect digital 5.1 channel sources at 24/96...and 24/192 in stereo only....but only optical, not coaxial.

Perhaps this question helps: How the receivers accept digital multichannel data from high res (24/96) sources?

Btw...i don't know too much about this..., cause' i don't have a multichannel receiver. smile.gif

@CoyoteSmith:

The answer is: some players play without copy protection (eg: PowerDv...); some players play with copy protection (eg: WinDv....); some DVD-As come with a style of copy protection very bad implemented...; Some DVD-As had other more strong copy protection system (eg: WinDv...may stop playback after 30 secs - eg: Yes-Fragile-); some DVD-As play fine in computer, but don't in external DVD-A players and vice-versa.

Hope that helps.biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by bertox: Feb 5 2008, 06:32
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Light-Fire
post Feb 5 2008, 06:42
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QUOTE (CoyoteSmith @ Jan 30 2008, 14:13) *
QUOTE (Light-Fire @ Jan 30 2008, 00:16) *

You probably just extracted the audio of the DVD Video part of your DVD-A disc.

hmmm/ i got the audio from the AUDIO_TS folder


hmmm/ Did you check to see if there is anything inside the AUDIO_TS folder?
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eevan
post Feb 5 2008, 07:09
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QUOTE
Eac3toGui don't open MLP files as is to me until i re-name its extensions. Are you shure about this?? Eac3toGui don't permit MLP files as sources. But eac3to yes.
In the „Select the Source File" dialog you open the „files of type:" combo and choose „All (*.*)". Now you can add *.mlp files wink.gif

QUOTE
Perhaps this question helps: How the receivers accept digital multichannel data from high res (24/96) sources?
The audio is for example DTS 96/24 encoded and packed in SPDIF subframes, setting the appropriate channel status bit that indicates digital data is sent (and not PCM audio samples)

This post has been edited by eevan: Feb 5 2008, 07:13


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bertox
post Feb 5 2008, 07:25
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QUOTE
In the „Select the Source File" dialog you open the „files of type:" combo and choose „All (*.*)". Now you can add *.mlp files

I know all of this...despite that i born yesterday...biggrin.gif
I'm not in vain talking..., when i try to open an MLP file get a "Unsupported file type" message in all ways.
What version of Eac3toGui are you using???

Now, you are saying that the DVD-A external players can only send analog high res multichannel data to the receivers????

This post has been edited by bertox: Feb 5 2008, 07:27
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Light-Fire
post Feb 5 2008, 07:38
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QUOTE (bertox @ Feb 5 2008, 01:25) *
...Now, you are saying that the DVD-A external players can only send analog high res multichannel data to the receivers????


That's the way it is for ALL DVD-A players.
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Borisz
post Feb 5 2008, 07:39
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Actually, you need ppcmripper for decrypting the audio_ts folder. DVD Audio Explorer only allows you to extract the mlp content from a non-encrypted audio_ts.

To make an iso copy, you have to decrypt the audio_ts, video_ts, and make an image out of both using Gear Software Mastering Edition. Simply dragging the files to nero/discjuggler etc won't work because they don't save the physical positions of the files (eg file xyz.aob from sector 200-550, stuff like that).

Theres one notable DVD-A release, LOVE from Beatles, which is not encrypted at all, you can just iso it up with dvddecrypter and get a functional copy complete with hi-res audio_ts in it.

does the eac3to give proper sample number and size (as indicated by the "uncompressed size" field in dvd-a explorer) on an extracted mlp? All other apps I've tried cut off a few samples from the end of a converted mlp, a very annoying thing I could only bypass by stitching all mlp files of an album to one gigantic file, padding it, converting that to wav, then manually split it per the size data shown by dvda explorer.


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bertox
post Feb 5 2008, 08:30
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QUOTE
That's the way it is for ALL DVD-A players.

Are you shure?? mmmmmmm....i don't know....mmm...thinkin' that the receivers are so useless then.., ..there are receivers with better dacs than some dvd-audio players....mmmm. Well.. i don't have a receiver or dvd-a player after all...no matter for me.smile.gif

This post has been edited by bertox: Feb 5 2008, 08:32
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eevan
post Feb 5 2008, 18:04
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QUOTE
What version of Eac3toGui are you using???
It's the version 0.63

My soundcard has digital outputs, in fact, there are 3 SPDIF interfaces used to send 6 channels (that is, two per interface). They are capable of maximum 96 kHz rate. It's the only way to transfer uncompressed multichannel audio through SPDIF.


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bertox
post Feb 5 2008, 18:57
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QUOTE
It's the version 0.63


Is very old version...

I have 1.49 version...the lastest (12-16-2007).

Maybe in your version there is no capped to MLP files...smile.gif

It's very strange to me to listening that there is no way to transport digital sources to an receiver....

Maybe you are talking about your sound card but not the rest of existent "transmitters".
Maybe your card have coaxial ouputs only...but not optical.

You see an DVD-A or Sacd external player ever??

I like to see shure talking people here....please.
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eevan
post Feb 5 2008, 19:16
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OK.
I know exactly what I'm talking here, but you seem a bit unsure.
I had to design a FPGA implementation of SPDIF transmitter as a project in my VLSI course at the university. So I couldn't afford guessing things about this.

As a start, read this application note from Cirrus.

And you think that they designed all that copyright protection and be so foolish to provide you with an uncompressed hires multichannel audio at the digital output?

EDIT: And for the bandwidth. For 96 kHz samplerate, you need to transfer a bitstream at a rate of 6.144 Mbit/s (so you need roughly 12 MHz of bandwidth for that). Tell me which coaxial cable isn't good for this bandwidth?

QUOTE (Wikipedia)
Note that there are no differences in the signals transmitted over optical or coaxial S/PDIF connectors—both carry exactly the same information. Selection of one over the other rests mainly on the availability of appropriate connectors on the chosen equipment and the preference and convenience of the user. Connections longer than 6 meters or so, or those requiring tight bends, should use coaxial cable, since the high light signal attenuation of TOSLINK cables limits its effective range. On the other hand, TOSLINK cables are not susceptible to ground loops and RF interference like coaxial cables.[1] One deciding factor for many is cost—any standard 75 Ω A/V cable can be used for coaxial connectivity, while TOSLINK requires a specific cable which until recently was not very affordable.


This post has been edited by eevan: Feb 5 2008, 20:17


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bertox
post Feb 5 2008, 19:40
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QUOTE
they designed all that copyright protection and be so foolish to provide you with an uncompressed hires multichannel audio at the digital output?


You are right with this question.smile.gif

Conclusion:

It's really better to have a PC with Soundcard capable to transmit digital data to receivers...than an horrendous analog dvd-a external player.

Bye.
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krabapple
post Feb 5 2008, 21:01
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QUOTE (Light-Fire @ Feb 5 2008, 01:38) *
QUOTE (bertox @ Feb 5 2008, 01:25) *

...Now, you are saying that the DVD-A external players can only send analog high res multichannel data to the receivers????


That's the way it is for ALL DVD-A players.



Not so. In the past there were players that could send it via firewire (i-link) or proprietary digital links (Denonlink); nowadays it can be sent via HDMI 1.1 or higher. These have the advantage of allowing the receiver to perform DSP (delay, bass management, room correction, etc) on the signal in the digital domain.
You can have a fully digital DVD-A set up rather cheaply these days, using , for example, an Oppo DVD player and any number of cheap AVRs with HDMI 1.1.

The topic of extracting DVD-A was covered extensively in this thread

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=34368

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bertox
post Feb 5 2008, 22:05
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There he come: new version of EAC3toGUI with MLP support (by my requests, jejeje):

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1096650#post1096650

.biggrin.gif

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