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When Pigs Fly: The Death of Oink, the Birth of Dissent
boombaard
post Oct 29 2007, 21:30
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perhaps an interesting/entertaining read: (not by my hand, found it yesterday)
http://www.demonbaby.com/blog/2007/10/when...k-birth-of.html

QUOTE (article introduction)
For quite a long time I've been intending to post some sort of commentary on the music industry - piracy, distribution, morality, those types of things. I've thought about it many times, but never gone through with it, because the issue is such a broad, messy one - such a difficult thing to address fairly and compactly. I knew it would result in a rambly, unfocused commentary, and my exact opinion has teetered back and forth quite a bit over the years anyway. But on Monday, when I woke up to the news that Oink, the world famous torrent site and mecca for music-lovers everywhere, had been shut down by international police and various anti-piracy groups, I knew it was finally time to try and organize my thoughts on this huge, sticky, important issue.


edit2: thanks for editing the title, kind (and anonymous) moderator smile.gif

This post has been edited by boombaard: Oct 29 2007, 23:57
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Canar
post Oct 30 2007, 21:54
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neomoe, at the basic level, words are numbers as well. They're just in an encoding that you can interpret without requiring math.

plnelson, I said nothing about rationalizing stealing. There is no stealing happening. What is happening is unauthorized reproduction, nothing more. According to Mirriam-Webster's dictionary, steal means:

intransitive verb
1: to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as a habitual or regular practice
2: to come or go secretly, unobtrusively, gradually, or unexpectedly
3: to steal or attempt to steal a base

transitive verb
1 a: to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully <stole a car>
b: to take away by force or unjust means <they've stolen our liberty>
c: to take surreptitiously or without permission <steal a kiss>
d: to appropriate to oneself or beyond one's proper share : make oneself the focus of <steal the show>
2 a: to move, convey, or introduce secretly : smuggle
b: to accomplish in a concealed or unobserved manner <steal a visit>
3 a: to seize, gain, or win by trickery, skill, or daring <a basketball player adept at stealing the ball> <stole the election>

Furthermore, to clarify intransitive definition 1, we need to clarify "take", which in almost all definitions means transfer, which implies that the original party no longer has it.

Call it whatever you like, but unauthorized copying is not stealing by any normal definition of "steal".

I spend what I can on music. However, given modern technology, it is going to be very difficult to prevent people from transferring numbers to and from each other.

We may be at the end of the short period of time wherein it is possible to charge for recorded music. Music was in no threat of dying out before recorded music could be sold, and it will be in no threat after recorded music dies out.

You're right that it's contrary to copyright law, but that doesn't make copyright law, the ownership of numbers, any less absurd.

I firmly believe that only physical objects can be owned. If you would not like a certain number made public, do not publicise it. There's nothing 20th century about this belief. For that matter, I believe that in the ideal case, there would be no concept of ownership, although in the status quo it is required. What exists ideally and what exists presently are two extremely different realms.


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Posts in this topic
- boombaard   When Pigs Fly: The Death of Oink   Oct 29 2007, 21:30
- - neomoe   very nice read! thank you for sharing this...   Oct 29 2007, 22:58
- - Fandango   "so this is why CDs cost $18..." H...   Oct 29 2007, 23:17
- - seanyseansean   If you disregard their 'illegal' status, b...   Oct 30 2007, 00:19
- - LANjackal   Interesting. I was wondering just how long it woul...   Oct 30 2007, 02:02
- - Canar   Mentioning an illegal site that no longer exists i...   Oct 30 2007, 03:23
- - plnelson   I certainly don't disagree that the music indu...   Oct 30 2007, 18:25
|- - skamp   QUOTE (plnelson @ Oct 30 2007, 18:25) No ...   Oct 31 2007, 14:26
- - Fandango   *rofl* Why is it always the stealing cars analogy ...   Oct 30 2007, 19:31
|- - plnelson   QUOTE (Fandango @ Oct 30 2007, 14:31) *ro...   Oct 30 2007, 19:46
- - Canar   An MP3 is a very long number. Likewise, a track on...   Oct 30 2007, 20:30
|- - plnelson   QUOTE (Canar @ Oct 30 2007, 15:30) An MP3...   Oct 30 2007, 21:31
- - neomoe   numbers are interpreted by a program, so they are ...   Oct 30 2007, 21:34
|- - plnelson   QUOTE (neomoe @ Oct 30 2007, 16:34) numbe...   Oct 30 2007, 21:51
|- - Light-Fire   QUOTE (plnelson @ Oct 30 2007, 15:51) ......   Oct 31 2007, 03:54
- - Canar   neomoe, at the basic level, words are numbers as w...   Oct 30 2007, 21:54
|- - plnelson   QUOTE (Canar @ Oct 30 2007, 16:54) plnels...   Oct 30 2007, 23:22
- - boombaard   QUOTE An MP3 is a very long number. Likewise, a tr...   Oct 30 2007, 21:57
- - krabapple   from the rant: QUOTE because you can all but guar...   Oct 30 2007, 22:10
- - greynol   Didn't we already have this discussion a short...   Oct 30 2007, 23:26
- - Axon   The bigger question is how the overall flow of mon...   Oct 31 2007, 01:14
|- - plnelson   QUOTE (Axon @ Oct 30 2007, 20:14) Would i...   Oct 31 2007, 16:09
|- - skamp   QUOTE (plnelson @ Oct 31 2007, 16:09) All...   Oct 31 2007, 17:30
||- - plnelson   QUOTE (skamp @ Oct 31 2007, 12:30) QUOTE ...   Oct 31 2007, 18:20
||- - greynol   QUOTE (plnelson @ Oct 31 2007, 10:20) And...   Oct 31 2007, 18:55
||- - skamp   QUOTE (plnelson @ Oct 31 2007, 18:20) And...   Nov 1 2007, 09:41
|- - Artemis3   QUOTE (plnelson @ Oct 31 2007, 11:09) All...   Oct 31 2007, 19:22
|- - sraffa   QUOTE (Artemis3 @ Oct 31 2007, 13:22) . ....   Oct 31 2007, 20:19
|- - plnelson   QUOTE (Artemis3 @ Oct 31 2007, 14:22) Rig...   Nov 6 2007, 18:24
- - digital   . . You cats need to take a stiff shot of your fa...   Oct 31 2007, 02:13
- - Fuchal   How long do you think before the labels are out of...   Oct 31 2007, 04:06
- - LANjackal   @ plnelson: Aren't you the same guy who starte...   Oct 31 2007, 04:29
- - Canar   Let's take a look at the people who are provid...   Oct 31 2007, 04:35
- - Artemis3   My, my, this topic is also here Quoting myself at...   Oct 31 2007, 07:27
- - boombaard   QUOTE All the armchair philosophizing in your post...   Oct 31 2007, 16:59
- - Triza   Just my 2 pence: Labels will be smaller, but they ...   Oct 31 2007, 23:15
|- - Lyx   QUOTE (Triza @ Nov 1 2007, 00:15) Just my...   Nov 1 2007, 06:19
- - Cosmo   Who pays $15 - $18 per CD?   Nov 1 2007, 00:20
- - SebastianG   CDs in Germany usually cost 15-18 EUR (20-25 USD)....   Nov 1 2007, 01:13
|- - Light-Fire   QUOTE (SebastianG @ Oct 31 2007, 19:13) C...   Nov 1 2007, 01:47
- - david_dl   Here, a newly released CD by a local artist, or an...   Nov 1 2007, 03:54
- - randal1013   i just read on blabbermouth that trent reznor had ...   Nov 1 2007, 04:42
- - Night Surfer   The numbers argument is funny. Of course one canno...   Nov 1 2007, 15:53
|- - greynol   Not one single person in this entire thread is jus...   Nov 1 2007, 17:30
|- - Pepzhez   An easy solution to this dilemma could be devised ...   Nov 1 2007, 21:14
|- - Lyx   QUOTE (Pepzhez @ Nov 1 2007, 22:14) An ea...   Nov 2 2007, 09:39
|- - plnelson   QUOTE (Pepzhez @ Nov 1 2007, 16:14) Had I...   Nov 6 2007, 18:40
||- - Pepzhez   QUOTE (plnelson @ Nov 6 2007, 09:40) If y...   Nov 7 2007, 05:58
|- - uart   QUOTE (Pepzhez @ Nov 1 2007, 12:14) Speak...   Nov 7 2007, 09:56
- - simonh   well said, pepzhez.   Nov 1 2007, 22:58
- - Artemis3   And yet, Pepzhez is not the only one... So plnels...   Nov 2 2007, 07:53
- - ArtMustHurt   usually artists dont earn much from cd sales unles...   Nov 2 2007, 13:19
- - Fandango   Personally I like this idea of an ideal state-of-t...   Nov 2 2007, 14:20
|- - skamp   QUOTE (Fandango @ Nov 2 2007, 14:20) Arti...   Nov 2 2007, 14:51
|- - Fandango   QUOTE (skamp @ Nov 2 2007, 14:51) So... p...   Nov 2 2007, 15:04
|- - skamp   QUOTE (Fandango @ Nov 2 2007, 15:04) Yes,...   Nov 2 2007, 16:35
|- - SnTholiday   QUOTE let people decide what they want to buy. Pe...   Nov 2 2007, 23:01
|- - Leto Atreides II   QUOTE (SnTholiday @ Nov 2 2007, 15:01) So...   Nov 4 2007, 06:45
|- - Lyx   QUOTE (SnTholiday @ Nov 3 2007, 00:01) Pe...   Nov 6 2007, 18:31
- - jaybeee   When Pigs Fly... I found this to be a very intere...   Nov 7 2007, 09:07
- - Tab   I find it amusing to no end that people rationaliz...   Nov 7 2007, 09:57
- - Buddylee   The Recording Monopoly (if you wish to talk about ...   Nov 11 2007, 13:26


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