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My tests over kmixer effects, Seem to be none...
KikeG
post Jan 16 2003, 09:40
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I've been doing some tests over kmixer effect, both using standard waveout and directsound, connecting my TBSC digital output to my Audiophile digital input, under WinXP (no SP1), and I'm sure that with a single stream at 48 KHz, with the TBSC mixer volume at max, the kmixer doesn't touch a bit of the audio stream, it's sent bit-perfectly to the output of the card. At 44.1 KHz I can't be so conclusive, since the TBSC resamples everything to 48 KHz and I've had some problems to test it the same way, but according to my analog measurements in loopback mode of Audiophile output, there is no trace of signal degradation over the 44.1 KHz played data.

...So it's very possible that this kmixer sounding worse than ASIO or k.streaming is our old friend mr. placebo entering into scene again. wink.gif

Anyway, I'll do some more tests in the future.

This post has been edited by KikeG: Jan 16 2003, 09:42
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thomaspf
post Jan 19 2003, 06:11
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Strange. I have an M-audio DIO24/96 and I have no problem doing this. I set the master clock to internal xtal and can record the digital output via loopback just fine. I have not connected anything to the monitor mixer. Is the Audiophile different from the DIO in this respect?

It turns out that input and output are not asynchronous but I can record only when I play and record at the same frequency. I am a bit lost how skipping can occur here. This locking seems to get one sample read for one sample written. The internal API delays might affect when a sample actually hits the wire after calling the API but as long as you don't have underruns on the send side you will end up sending the complete consecutive stream. All these bits will get recorded in the same order with the same values with a varying amount of leading and trailing samples of zeros.

I just completed a whole set of recordings. I used ntrack for recording the S/PDIF input and played the tracks with different output methods using Winamp (wave,DS, ASIO), foobar2000 (wave, DS, KS) on the same machine, and my external CD player.


I wrote a little command line tool for finding offset in the recorded files and doing the comparison but I can't find that anymore, so I did an early check using the statistics function in cooledit2000. So far, I get the same picture that I got 8 month ago. The values in this statistic that are invariant to leading and trailing samples of zeros in the recorded files have exactly the same values for the EAC ripped wav file, the recording from the external player, and the loopback recording played via ASIO.

All the other recordings fail easy checks like min and max values for the samples including the recording using foobar with KS output.

I have to work tomorrow, so I will probably have to continue this next week.
@KikeG how did you do the bit compare between the recordings and your original file. Do you have some tool that finds the correct offset in the recording and does a sample for sample compare?

Cheers

Thomas

This post has been edited by thomaspf: Jan 19 2003, 06:20
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Posts in this topic
- KikeG   My tests over kmixer effects   Jan 16 2003, 09:40
- - thomaspf   Could you describe this setup in a bit more detail...   Jan 16 2003, 20:02
- - KikeG   I used WinXP pre-SP1. As I said, at 48 KHz, I use...   Jan 17 2003, 09:46
- - kaiwei   Did anyone actually claimed that it sounds better?...   Jan 17 2003, 11:52
- - KikeG   I don't think anybody has claimed it sounds be...   Jan 17 2003, 12:06
- - dev0   So basically all of thomaspf claims turn out to be...   Jan 17 2003, 16:17
- - thomaspf   Very interesting. All the experiments I did came a...   Jan 17 2003, 17:17
- - Pio2001   Loopbacking a soundcard into itself can lead to pr...   Jan 17 2003, 18:43
- - thomaspf   Interesting. I thought input and output of this ca...   Jan 17 2003, 19:21
- - KikeG   thomaspf, there's one thing I don't unders...   Jan 18 2003, 17:59
- - thomaspf   Strange. I have an M-audio DIO24/96 and I have no ...   Jan 19 2003, 06:11
- - Pio2001   Actually, long ago, I managed the same loopback wi...   Jan 19 2003, 14:51
- - thomaspf   Windows has supported a various driver models over...   Jan 19 2003, 18:03
- - thomaspf   A few more results. First I recreated this little ...   Jan 20 2003, 08:42
- - KikeG   I have only one computer too, but two soundcards i...   Jan 20 2003, 13:00
- - KikeG   So, all software that uses waveout (WinABX, abc/hr...   Jan 20 2003, 13:03
- - KikeG   thomaspf, make sure that in the settings of the pa...   Jan 20 2003, 14:50
- - thomaspf   Looks like we are getting on the same page here...   Jan 20 2003, 18:32
- - KikeG   In my Winamp 2 directsound plugin, I have no optio...   Jan 21 2003, 10:15
- - thomaspf   My DAC/surround sound proc is on it's way back...   Jan 21 2003, 21:58
- - KikeG   Ok, I've managed to get decent drivers for my ...   Jan 24 2003, 17:14
- - Continuum   QUOTE (KikeG @ Jan 24 2003 - 05:14 PM)Ok, I...   Jan 24 2003, 17:41
- - thomaspf   @kikeG I am expecting to get my DAC back this we...   Jan 25 2003, 00:31
- - KikeG   QUOTE (Continuum @ Jan 24 2003 - 05:41 PM)I h...   Jan 26 2003, 14:38
- - KikeG   Player: Winamp 2.81 Drivers: latest M-Audio Dio24...   Jan 26 2003, 14:41
- - thomaspf   I finally got my DAC back and repeated my tests vi...   Jan 29 2003, 08:46
- - Continuum   Are you sure that all volume levels are set to max...   Jan 29 2003, 11:53
- - KikeG   Yes, that could happen, but depends also on the se...   Jan 29 2003, 14:38
- - thomaspf   I set everything up as it shoud and also consulted...   Jan 29 2003, 19:07
- - thomaspf   Here is another tidbit. I had a conversation with ...   Feb 3 2003, 00:09
- - KikeG   This is strange, I hope I had a DTS decoder to mak...   Feb 3 2003, 09:25
- - Pio2001   I get bit perfect digital playback-record in loopb...   Feb 9 2003, 07:26
- - KikeG   I think the relevant results here would be for 44....   Feb 9 2003, 20:16
- - thomaspf   I just checked the Marian WEB site. It looks like ...   Feb 9 2003, 21:10
- - KikeG   OK, I've performed several RMAA (RightMark Aud...   Mar 6 2003, 16:35
- - KikeG   Well, a couple of months ago I managed to get mi C...   Jun 30 2003, 13:03
- - KikeG   Well, I just did a few more tests. I own now both ...   Aug 1 2003, 17:55
- - balazer   I understand that you need to use something like A...   Aug 19 2003, 10:02
- - KikeG   I already answered at the AVS thread. I did all my...   Aug 19 2003, 18:29
- - Patsoe   QUOTE (KikeG @ Jun 30 2003, 01:03 PM)There...   Aug 22 2003, 00:13
- - Peter   I suppose they just perform mixing/resampling at h...   Aug 22 2003, 01:10
- - AstralStorm   It depends on the card and its drivers. TerraTec A...   Aug 22 2003, 01:15
- - Patsoe   QUOTE (zZzZzZz @ Aug 22 2003, 01:10 AM)(ABX a...   Aug 22 2003, 01:22
- - Peter   No sane engineer seriously takes the possibility o...   Aug 22 2003, 01:37
- - AstralStorm   The test was brain-damaged. Mangled sample and no...   Aug 22 2003, 02:21
- - Patsoe   QUOTE (AstralStorm @ Aug 22 2003, 02:21 AM)Th...   Aug 22 2003, 08:06
- - KikeG   External hardware decoding of 44.1 KHz PCM-encoded...   Aug 23 2003, 18:30
- - KikeG   And, even when hardware directsound acceleration c...   Aug 23 2003, 18:35
- - Peter   That's because kernel mixer was designed to pl...   Aug 23 2003, 18:52
- - KikeG   Yes. But if I play something, I'd better prefe...   Aug 24 2003, 20:58
- - Patsoe   QUOTE (KikeG @ Aug 23 2003, 06:35 PM)So, in p...   Aug 24 2003, 21:52
- - KikeG   QUOTE (Patsoe @ Aug 24 2003, 09:52 PM)Well, i...   Aug 25 2003, 20:16


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