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Nightwish - Angels Fall First
shadowking
post Jun 4 2007, 17:11
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Serious problems for LAME mp3 , similar issues with AAC.

This post has been edited by shadowking: Jun 4 2007, 17:23


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halb27
post Sep 6 2012, 20:17
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Thank you for applauding 3.99.5y, but I'm afraid something has gone wrong.
3.99.5y restricts its functional extension to only -V0+.
Did you use 3.99.5x instead? However 3.99.5x -V5+ doesn't help (for me), it takes an additional --adbr_min 200 to make this sample transparent to me (didn't try lower --adbr_min values).

To me this is not a pre-echo issue but a sample where Lame's psy model isn't quite right, but this flaw is overcome here by original Lame's top quality settings. With 3.99.5y problems like these are tackled by the internal --adbr_min feature which always keeps audio data bitrate above a certain threshold.


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lame3100m -V1 --insane-factor 0.75
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Dynamic
post Sep 8 2012, 17:29
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QUOTE (halb27 @ Sep 6 2012, 20:17) *
Thank you for applauding 3.99.5y, but I'm afraid something has gone wrong.
3.99.5y restricts its functional extension to only -V0+.
Did you use 3.99.5x instead? However 3.99.5x -V5+ doesn't help (for me), it takes an additional --adbr_min 200 to make this sample transparent to me (didn't try lower --adbr_min values).

To me this is not a pre-echo issue but a sample where Lame's psy model isn't quite right, but this flaw is overcome here by original Lame's top quality settings. With 3.99.5y problems like these are tackled by the internal --adbr_min feature which always keeps audio data bitrate above a certain threshold.


Sorry, I'm late replying, hence the full quote.

That's weird. My -V 5+ version was encoded by lame-3.99.5y.zip from your thread about that Lame version, halb27.

The -V 5 version encoded by it was 132kbps, LAME3.99y reported encoder (short string can't display the extra .5)
The -V 5+ version had a load more 320 kbps frames, and came out at 189kbps without running mp3packer. I have attached the -V 5+ version to this post.

--edit: the above info from foobar2000 before I realised I still had the original command prompt open--

I'd assume it's doing something when I run -V 5+ as indicated in --help. Perhaps it's reverting to the behaviour of LAME3.99.5x? Dunno.

Here's a CODEBOX with the --help info and the two encodes I ran. As luck would have it I still have the same Command Prompt Console open so I followed up with a -V 0 and -V 0+ encode, to compare, and there are actually 5 encodes in the following order:

1) lame3.98.4r -V 5
2) lame3.99.5y -V 5+ (file attached to this post)
3) lame3.99.5y -V 5
4) lame3.99.5y -V 0
5) lame3.99.5y -V 0+

I note that the percentage of short blocks is the same in the different encodes including a 3.98.4r encode I didn't spend time ABXing, but the -V 0+ encode is encoded very differently from the -V 5+

Please feel free to download the -V5+ encode attached to this post and examine it or ABX it between 0.9 and 1.9 seconds, or whatever you choose.

CODE
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

//* deleted stuff ... *//
Directory of C:\Users\Ryan\Music\Test signals

06/09/2012 16:16 <DIR> .
06/09/2012 16:16 <DIR> ..
06/09/2012 16:16 3,003,540 05___Angels_Fall_First_ringing.flac
23/08/2012 19:21 30,072 Impulse at 0.625s 384kHz sampling rate .pk
23/08/2012 19:21 1,920,044 Impulse at 0.625s 384kHz sampling rate .wav
3 File(s) 4,953,656 bytes
2 Dir(s) 7,226,523,648 bytes free

//* deleted stuff including decoding FLAC to WAV... *//

//* I did a quick encode for comparison using LAME3.98r left over from an expired dBpowerAmp
trial, which I didn't spend serious time ABXing, reasoning that using different modes of the same
encoder version might be more meaningful *//

C:\Users\Ryan\Music\Test signals>"C:\Program Files\Illustrate\dBpoweramp\encoder
\mp3 (Lame)\lame.exe" -V5 05___Angels_Fall_First_ringing.wav
LAME 3.98.4 32bits (http://www.mp3dev.org/)
CPU features: MMX (ASM used), 3DNow! (ASM used), SSE (ASM used), SSE2
Using polyphase lowpass filter, transition band: 16538 Hz - 17071 Hz
Encoding 05___Angels_Fall_First_ringing.wav
to 05___Angels_Fall_First_ringing.wav.mp3
Encoding as 44.1 kHz j-stereo MPEG-1 Layer III VBR(q=5)
Frame | CPU time/estim | REAL time/estim | play/CPU | ETA
1154/1154 (100%)| 0:01/ 0:01| 0:01/ 0:01| 17.869x| 0:00
32 [ 8] **
40 [ 0]
48 [ 0]
56 [ 0]
64 [ 0]
80 [ 0]
96 [ 26] %%***
112 [ 230] %%%%%%%%%********************************
128 [ 389] %%%%%%%%%%%%%*******************************************************
160 [ 329] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%********************************************
192 [ 81] %%%************
224 [ 61] %**********
256 [ 21] ****
320 [ 9] %*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kbps LR MS % long switch short %
145.9 19.5 80.5 83.3 8.9 7.8
Writing LAME Tag...done
ReplayGain: -3.4dB

C:\Users\Ryan\Music\Test signals>lame3995y.exe --help
LAME 32bits version 3.99.5y (http://lame.sf.net)

usage: lame3995y.exe [options] <infile> [outfile]

<infile> and/or <outfile> can be "-", which means stdin/stdout.

RECOMMENDED:
lame -V2 input.wav output.mp3

OPTIONS:
-b bitrate set the bitrate, default 128 kbps
-h higher quality, but a little slower. Recommended.
-f fast mode (lower quality)
-V n quality setting for VBR. default n=4
0=high quality,bigger files. 9=smaller files
-V n+ compared to -V n, -V n+ has a significantly reduced
amount of inaccurately encoded frames due to
lacking data space. Moreover, it doesn't allow
audio data bitrate to go too low
--preset type type must be "medium", "standard", "extreme", "insane",
or a value for an average desired bitrate and depending
on the value specified, appropriate quality settings will
be used.
"--preset help" gives more info on these

--priority type sets the process priority
0,1 = Low priority
2 = normal priority
3,4 = High priority

--help id3 ID3 tagging related options

--longhelp full list of options

--license print License information


C:\Users\Ryan\Music\Test signals>lame3995y.exe -V 5+ 05___Angels_Fall_First_ring
ing.wav 05___Angels_Fall_First_ringing.wav.v5plus.mp3
LAME 3.99.5y 32bits (http://lame.sf.net)
Using polyphase lowpass filter, transition band: 16538 Hz - 17071 Hz
Encoding 05___Angels_Fall_First_ringing.wav
to 05___Angels_Fall_First_ringing.wav.v5plus.mp3
Encoding as 44.1 kHz j-stereo MPEG-1 Layer III VBR(q=5)
Frame | CPU time/estim | REAL time/estim | play/CPU | ETA
1154/1154 (100%)| 0:02/ 0:02| 0:02/ 0:02| 12.244x| 0:00
32 [ 8] %*
40 [ 0]
48 [ 0]
56 [ 0]
64 [ 0]
80 [ 0]
96 [ 0]
112 [ 19] %%***
128 [ 306] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%***************************************************
160 [ 263] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%*******************************************
192 [ 217] %%%%%%%%%%%**************************************
224 [ 109] %%%%%%*******************
256 [ 91] %%%%*****************
320 [ 141] %%******************************
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kbps LR MS % long switch short %
189.0 21.3 78.7 83.3 8.9 7.8
Writing LAME Tag...done
ReplayGain: -3.4dB

C:\Users\Ryan\Music\Test signals>lame3995y.exe -V 5 05___Angels_Fall_First_ringi
ng.wav 05___Angels_Fall_First_ringing.wav.v5normal.mp3
LAME 3.99.5y 32bits (http://lame.sf.net)
Using polyphase lowpass filter, transition band: 16538 Hz - 17071 Hz
Encoding 05___Angels_Fall_First_ringing.wav
to 05___Angels_Fall_First_ringing.wav.v5normal.mp3
Encoding as 44.1 kHz j-stereo MPEG-1 Layer III VBR(q=5)
Frame | CPU time/estim | REAL time/estim | play/CPU | ETA
1154/1154 (100%)| 0:02/ 0:02| 0:02/ 0:02| 14.375x| 0:00
32 [ 8] %*
40 [ 0]
48 [ 0]
56 [ 0]
64 [ 0]
80 [ 0]
96 [ 52] %%******
112 [ 428] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%************************************************
128 [ 456] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%***************************************************
160 [ 80] %%%*********
192 [ 75] %***********
224 [ 28] %****
256 [ 23] %***
320 [ 4] %
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kbps LR MS % long switch short %
131.9 21.3 78.7 83.3 8.9 7.8
Writing LAME Tag...done
ReplayGain: -3.4dB

C:\Users\Ryan\Music\Test signals>lame3995y.exe -V 0 05___Angels_Fall_First_ringi
ng.wav 05___Angels_Fall_First_ringing.wav.v0normal.mp3
LAME 3.99.5y 32bits (http://lame.sf.net)
polyphase lowpass filter disabled
Encoding 05___Angels_Fall_First_ringing.wav
to 05___Angels_Fall_First_ringing.wav.v0normal.mp3
Encoding as 44.1 kHz j-stereo MPEG-1 Layer III VBR(q=0)
Frame | CPU time/estim | REAL time/estim | play/CPU | ETA
1154/1154 (100%)| 0:02/ 0:02| 0:02/ 0:02| 11.376x| 0:00
32 [ 0]
40 [ 0]
48 [ 0]
56 [ 0]
64 [ 0]
80 [ 0]
96 [ 0]
112 [ 0]
128 [ 5] %
160 [ 5] %
192 [ 55] %%%%%%%%%
224 [ 327] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%*******
256 [ 436] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%********************
320 [ 326] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%***************
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kbps LR MS % long switch short %
261.0 75.7 24.3 83.3 8.9 7.8
Writing LAME Tag...done
ReplayGain: -3.4dB

C:\Users\Ryan\Music\Test signals>lame3995y.exe -V 0+ 05___Angels_Fall_First_ring
ing.wav 05___Angels_Fall_First_ringing.wav.v0plus.mp3
LAME 3.99.5y 32bits (http://lame.sf.net)
Using polyphase lowpass filter, transition band: 17249 Hz - 17782 Hz
Encoding 05___Angels_Fall_First_ringing.wav
to 05___Angels_Fall_First_ringing.wav.v0plus.mp3
Encoding as 44.1 kHz j-stereo MPEG-1 Layer III VBR(q=0)
Frame | CPU time/estim | REAL time/estim | play/CPU | ETA
1154/1154 (100%)| 0:04/ 0:04| 0:04/ 0:04| 7.3687x| 0:00
32 [ 0]
40 [ 0]
48 [ 0]
56 [ 0]
64 [ 0]
80 [ 0]
96 [ 0]
112 [ 0]
128 [ 0]
160 [ 0]
192 [ 0]
224 [ 3] %
256 [ 139] %%%%%%%%**
320 [1012] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%*****************
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kbps LR MS % long switch short %
312.0 75.6 24.4 83.3 8.9 7.8
Writing LAME Tag...done
ReplayGain: -3.4dB

C:\Users\Ryan\Music\Test signals>


This post has been edited by Dynamic: Sep 8 2012, 17:30
Attached File(s)
Attached File  05___Angels_Fall_First_ringing.wav.v5plus.mp3 ( 695.1K ) Number of downloads: 94
 


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Dynamic the artist formerly known as DickD
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Posts in this topic
- shadowking   Nightwish - Angels Fall First   Jun 4 2007, 17:11
- - odyssey   Please add version, parameters etc. I had no prob...   Jun 4 2007, 17:18
- - shadowking   I first spotted it with 3.97 ages ago. Tested 3.98...   Jun 4 2007, 17:26
- - greynol   I'm not sure I could ABX at -V3, but at -V4 di...   Jun 4 2007, 17:35
- - halb27   Tried 3.97V5 on it. I couldn't hear the proble...   Jun 4 2007, 19:52
|- - shadowking   QUOTE (halb27 @ Jun 5 2007, 04:52) Tried ...   Jun 10 2007, 04:33
|- - LANjackal   QUOTE (shadowking @ Jun 9 2007, 23:33) QU...   Jun 10 2007, 18:43
- - LANjackal   For what it's worth, I couldn't ABX it at ...   Jun 5 2007, 06:53
- - stigc   It's funny, Vorbis (aoTuVb5) have no 'trem...   Jun 5 2007, 11:11
|- - Pio2001   QUOTE (stigc @ Jun 5 2007, 12:11) Does an...   Jun 8 2007, 00:18
- - Jillian   Out Of Topic. I'm very disappoint Anette, ne...   Jun 5 2007, 11:26
- - robert   @shadowking: nice sample, but I think we cannot fi...   Jun 7 2007, 14:26
- - alter4   I was able to abx even lame 3.99.5 with -b320 -q0 ...   Sep 4 2012, 11:05
|- - halb27   QUOTE (alter4 @ Sep 4 2012, 12:05) I was ...   Sep 6 2012, 20:29
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (halb27 @ Sep 6 2012, 16:29) You us...   Sep 8 2012, 04:13
|- - MostlyHarmless   QUOTE (IgorC @ Sep 8 2012, 06:13) p = 0.0...   Sep 8 2012, 12:12
|- - C.R.Helmrich   0.5^number-of-trials. Igor, I wouldn't say 5 i...   Sep 8 2012, 13:17
- - psycho   I missed this thread in 2007, but now I'm inte...   Sep 4 2012, 16:47
- - lvqcl   05___Angels_Fall_First_ringing.flac was (re)upload...   Sep 4 2012, 18:15
- - psycho   Hm, I can't hear it... I've tried -V 6 to ...   Sep 5 2012, 19:38
- - mixminus1   A ringing/fluttering in the right-channel guitar, ...   Sep 5 2012, 20:13
- - psycho   Thanks, mixminus1. I will try it again tonight. B...   Sep 6 2012, 11:33
|- - Dynamic   I wanted to try out the VBR+ mode (-V n+) of halb2...   Sep 6 2012, 18:59
- - psycho   Aha! Now I took time, put my headphones on and...   Sep 6 2012, 17:19
- - halb27   Thank you for applauding 3.99.5y, but I'm afra...   Sep 6 2012, 20:17
|- - Dynamic   QUOTE (halb27 @ Sep 6 2012, 20:17) Thank ...   Sep 8 2012, 17:29
|- - halb27   QUOTE (Dynamic @ Sep 8 2012, 18:29) That...   Sep 8 2012, 18:54
|- - Dynamic   QUOTE (halb27 @ Sep 8 2012, 18:54) Anyway...   Sep 8 2012, 20:02
- - halb27   I tried various 3.99.5 -Vn settings with this inte...   Sep 7 2012, 21:49
- - alter4   QUOTE (halb27 @ Sep 6 2012, 22:29) QUOTE ...   Sep 8 2012, 11:14
|- - halb27   QUOTE (alter4 @ Sep 8 2012, 12:14) I did ...   Sep 8 2012, 18:28
- - halb27   Thanks for that. Hopefully you will continue your ...   Sep 8 2012, 20:33
|- - Dynamic   QUOTE (halb27 @ Sep 8 2012, 20:33) One th...   Sep 9 2012, 10:04
- - alter4   Guys, just one question. What is LAME3.99y encoder...   Sep 9 2012, 11:14
- - halb27   You can download it from the 3.99.5y thread. Than...   Sep 9 2012, 13:30
|- - Dynamic   QUOTE (halb27 @ Sep 9 2012, 13:30) You ca...   Sep 10 2012, 17:34
- - halb27   Here comes a candidate for 3.99.5z to play with. T...   Sep 10 2012, 22:16
|- - Dynamic   Thanks, I look forward to testing this. Ryan. [e...   Sep 11 2012, 08:40
|- - halb27   QUOTE (Dynamic @ Sep 11 2012, 09:40) ... ...   Sep 11 2012, 09:23
- - halb27   I'd like to draw special attention to the samp...   Sep 11 2012, 09:09


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