IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Personal Multiformat ABC/HR test at 96 kbit/s, AAC, Vorbis, Lame, WMA10pro.
IgorC
post May 19 2007, 06:35
Post #1





Group: Members
Posts: 1572
Joined: 3-January 05
From: ARG/RUS
Member No.: 18803



Codecs :
High anchor Lame 3.98b1 --vbr-new -V 5
Low anchor Lame 3.98b1 --abr 96
Nero 1.0.7.0 VBR -q 0.34 (approx 96 kbps)
Itunes 7.1.1.5 96 kbit/s VBR
WMA10pro 96 kbit/s CBR 1pass (dbpower converter 12.1)
Lancer Vorbis Aotuv (last oggdropXP nov 10 2006) -q 2.00 (approx 96 kbps)

Decoders:
Nero, itunes, Lancer, lame were decoded by foobar 0.9.4.3
wma10pro by dbprower converter 12.1

Headphones Sennheiser HD 447 and soundcard Audigy SE 24/96

Results:
http://rapidshare.com/files/34474605/96kbps.xls.html

This post has been edited by IgorC: May 31 2007, 18:36
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
pepoluan
post May 19 2007, 06:43
Post #2





Group: Members
Posts: 1455
Joined: 22-November 05
From: Jakarta
Member No.: 25929



Thanks for your efforts! Just one suggestion, put the anchors on the left/right ends of the table. Less confusing smile.gif

But thanks!


--------------------
Nobody is Perfect.
I am Nobody.

http://pandu.poluan.info
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
IgorC
post May 23 2007, 05:46
Post #3





Group: Members
Posts: 1572
Joined: 3-January 05
From: ARG/RUS
Member No.: 18803



QUOTE (pepoluan @ May 18 2007, 21:43) *
Thanks for your efforts! Just one suggestion, put the anchors on the left/right ends of the table. Less confusing smile.gif

But thanks!


Thanks for suggestion.
I added more samples to test.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
IgorC
post May 31 2007, 18:35
Post #4





Group: Members
Posts: 1572
Joined: 3-January 05
From: ARG/RUS
Member No.: 18803



I added more samples. Now it's 50. New table http://rapidshare.com/files/34474605/96kbps.xls.html

iTunes surprised. It cuts more frecuencies than other encoders however has a higher score.

This post has been edited by IgorC: May 31 2007, 18:38
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
ff123
post Jun 1 2007, 08:57
Post #5


ABC/HR developer, ff123.net admin


Group: Developer (Donating)
Posts: 1396
Joined: 24-September 01
Member No.: 12



Your excel file made it easy to cut and paste to the statistical webalyzer at my site:

http://ff123.net/friedman/stats.html

All tied except for the low anchor. There is the suggestion (though not statistically validated) that you prefer itunes and Lancer over Nero.


CODE
FRIEDMAN version 1.24 (Jan 17, 2002) http://ff123.net/
Tukey HSD analysis

Number of listeners: 50
Critical significance:  0.05
Tukey's HSD:   0.335

Means:

itunes   Lancer   Lame_v5  wma10pro Nero     Lame_abr
  4.60     4.58     4.46     4.45     4.33     3.20  

-------------------------- Difference Matrix --------------------------

         Lancer   Lame_v5  wma10pro Nero     Lame_abr
itunes     0.014    0.136    0.146    0.264    1.396*
Lancer              0.122    0.132    0.250    1.382*
Lame_v5                      0.010    0.128    1.260*
wma10pro                              0.118    1.250*
Nero                                           1.132*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

itunes is better than Lame_abr
Lancer is better than Lame_abr
Lame_v5 is better than Lame_abr
wma10pro is better than Lame_abr
Nero is better than Lame_abr
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
IgorC
post Jun 3 2007, 23:14
Post #6





Group: Members
Posts: 1572
Joined: 3-January 05
From: ARG/RUS
Member No.: 18803



There is a trouble. The number format is x,xx in Excel and not x.xx as here http://ff123.net/friedman/stats.html

This post has been edited by IgorC: Jun 3 2007, 23:15
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
vinnie97
post Jun 6 2007, 06:49
Post #7





Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 6-March 03
Member No.: 5360



Look at that, most of the formats are matching or slightly better in quality than the high anchor! w00t.gif I haven't done any ABX to verify but I suspect my results would be similar. I'm content with 80 kbps Vorbis on my portable after all. This would be interesting to see again with the same high anchor but testing for 80 kbps transparency.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
haregoo
post Aug 8 2007, 11:24
Post #8





Group: Members
Posts: 192
Joined: 16-January 06
Member No.: 27155



My try.

Encoders
96kbps contenders
aoTuV beta5 (q 2)
iTunes v7.3.1.3 (96k VBR)
Nero AAC Enc v1.1.34.0 (q 0.35)

128kbps contenders
LAME v3.97 (-V5 --vbr-new)
LAME v3.98b4 (-V5)

Samples
All samples comes from Sebastian's choice on 64kbps multi-format listening test. But I couldn't finish every one of them, because it's too hard for this comparison or unfamiliar to me.

Results
CODE
sample n    aoTuV    iTunes    L397    L398    Nero
sample 01    3.50    4.20    3.80    2.70    4.30
sample 02    3.50    4.30    4.20    4.20    3.40
sample 03    3.50    4.10    4.30    4.30    4.00
sample 04    3.90    4.10    3.50    3.70    4.20
sample 05    3.00    4.00    5.00    4.00    3.70
sample 06    3.00    5.00    5.00    5.00    5.00
sample 07
sample 08    3.50    5.00    5.00    5.00    5.00
sample 09    3.20    3.50    4.00    2.80    4.20
sample 10    4.00    4.50    4.50    4.00    5.00
sample 11
sample 12    3.90    3.70    3.20    3.90    4.00
sample 13    3.30    4.00    3.50    2.80    4.00
sample 14    3.20    4.00    4.20    3.70    4.00
sample 15    3.50    4.30    4.50    5.00    4.00
sample 16
sample 17    4.00    4.10    3.70    3.20    4.20
sample 18    3.40    4.20    3.70    3.90    4.20
------------------------------------------------------------
Overall      3.49    4.2    4.14    3.88    4.21


AACs on top, followed by LAME 3.97, then 3.98. aoTuV loses.

Overall quality at this bitrate isn't impressive. I was rarely required to ABX. But AACs and 128kbps MP3 perform well with orchestral samples (No. 6 and 8).

QUOTE
FRIEDMAN version 1.24 (Jan 17, 2002) http://ff123.net/
Tukey HSD analysis

Number of listeners: 15
Critical significance: 0.05
Tukey's HSD: 0.458

Means:

Nero iTunes LAME397 LAME398 aoTuV
4.21 4.20 4.14 3.88 3.49

-------------------------- Difference Matrix --------------------------

iTunes LAME397 LAME398 aoTuV
Nero 0.013 0.073 0.333 0.720*
iTunes 0.060 0.320 0.707*
LAME397 0.260 0.647*
LAME398 0.387
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Nero is better than aoTuV
iTunes is better than aoTuV
LAME397 is better than aoTuV
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
IgorC
post Aug 8 2007, 17:01
Post #9





Group: Members
Posts: 1572
Joined: 3-January 05
From: ARG/RUS
Member No.: 18803



haregoo
Thanks for share the results

Speaking of my test also I think Itunes 96 kbit/s VBR mode doesn't produce 96 kbit/s. For a lot of albums with enough silence itunes still has 105 kbit/s while Vorbis -q2 and Nero 1.0.7.0 produce something like 89-90 kbits.On average Vorbis and Nero respect with their VBR mode 96 kbit/s bitrate while Itunes always ends on 105-110 kbit/s.

wouldn't be more fair to shift bitrate? something like:
Vorbis -q 2.5 (Instead of -q 2.0)
Nero 1.0.7.0 -q 0.36
Nero 1.1.34 -q 0.34 / -q0.35(?)

But it would be test for 105 kbit/s . Not 96 kbit/s.

This post has been edited by IgorC: Aug 8 2007, 17:37
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
muaddib
post Aug 8 2007, 18:06
Post #10





Group: Developer
Posts: 398
Joined: 14-October 01
Member No.: 289



What you can expect with Nero 1.1.34 is:

-q 0.34 -> 92kbps
-q 0.35 -> 96kbps
-q 0.37 -> 103kbps
-q 0.38 -> 107kbps

So for test at 105kbps one should be using -q 0.375
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
haregoo
post Aug 9 2007, 00:41
Post #11





Group: Members
Posts: 192
Joined: 16-January 06
Member No.: 27155



QUOTE (IgorC @ Aug 9 2007, 01:01) *
Speaking of my test also I think Itunes 96 kbit/s VBR mode doesn't produce 96 kbit/s. For a lot of albums with enough silence itunes still has 105 kbit/s while Vorbis -q2 and Nero 1.0.7.0 produce something like 89-90 kbits.On average Vorbis and Nero respect with their VBR mode 96 kbit/s bitrate while Itunes always ends on 105-110 kbit/s.

Perhaps iTunes AAC is more like CBR unlike quality-based VBR encoder including aoTuV and Nero VBR setting. iTunes's one doesn't save bitrate for quieter simple part of music, thus most of music will end up with 96-105kbps. As far as these above samples are concerned, I could get fair bitrate table.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
kennedyb4
post Aug 9 2007, 03:49
Post #12





Group: Members
Posts: 772
Joined: 3-October 01
Member No.: 180



QUOTE (haregoo @ Aug 8 2007, 19:41) *
QUOTE (IgorC @ Aug 9 2007, 01:01) *

Speaking of my test also I think Itunes 96 kbit/s VBR mode doesn't produce 96 kbit/s. For a lot of albums with enough silence itunes still has 105 kbit/s while Vorbis -q2 and Nero 1.0.7.0 produce something like 89-90 kbits.On average Vorbis and Nero respect with their VBR mode 96 kbit/s bitrate while Itunes always ends on 105-110 kbit/s.

Perhaps iTunes AAC is more like CBR unlike quality-based VBR encoder including aoTuV and Nero VBR setting. iTunes's one doesn't save bitrate for quieter simple part of music, thus most of music will end up with 96-105kbps. As far as these above samples are concerned, I could get fair bitrate table.


I was told that Itunes VBR can only select larger frames and in this case will never have a frame at less than 96. In this respect it does not sound like a true VBR implementation, more like enhanced CBR.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 16th September 2014 - 23:04