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psilocybin mushrooms improve hearing?, opinions
FloggedSynapse
post Apr 20 2007, 13:26
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I'm just throwing this out, I don't care if the mods move or delete this post.

For the past several years I've had a very nice cache of cyan mushrooms. Yes the psychoactive ones. The ones that make you trip.

I've noticed something interesting - I think they improve my hearing. If I take just a small amount, like a nickel sized piece of shroom flesh - not enough to trip, it makes my hearing more acute. I swear. I'm almost 40, have good hearing normally. I find I become much more sensitive to high frequency sounds (like my CRT, computer power supply and fans) and I think my hearing overall becomes more acute. Suddenly I can hear the neighbors in my apartment complex much more clearly (having good hearing can be a bit of a curse).

I doubt the drug changes the mechanics of hearing, but it does tweak the nerve conduction and sensory processing. It's thought that most of perception is unconscious and a lot of stuff gets filtered before it reaches the level of conscious perception. Perhaps the drug removes some of this filtering?

I've read a few accounts online that agree with this, including one person with moderate hearing loss that found low doses of shrooms helped his hearing greatly.

It would be interesting to actually measure this and see if there's a real difference in hearing acuity, or if it's all in your head unsure.gif
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pest
post Apr 20 2007, 13:41
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In my opinion, psychoactive drugs don't improve your hearing abilities, they rather change they way you perceive accoustic signals.
In addition you may experience some form of synaesthesia. And finally you can start to debate about "what is reality" wink.gif
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marcan
post Apr 20 2007, 13:49
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Definitely an interesting discussion.

I work in the music industry (mainly I'm mixing in a studio), so the relation between chemicals and perception of music/sound is something I have been exposed very often.

I'm quite busy right now (a client in the studio), but I will participate to this discussion, sharing my experience and knowledge and curious to learn from others.

Cheers,

Marcan
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FloggedSynapse
post Apr 20 2007, 14:27
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QUOTE (pest @ Apr 20 2007, 07:41) *
In my opinion, psychoactive drugs don't improve your hearing abilities, they rather change they way you perceive accoustic signals.
In addition you may experience some form of synaesthesia. And finally you can start to debate about "what is reality" wink.gif


Well,,, yes shrooms definitely change how you perceive, and this may well amount to sharper (and more distracting) hearing. It may change the 'audio processing' filters the brain uses so more stuff that normally gets filtered out makes it through. Who knows. Sort of like autistic people that are very sensitive to light or sound - it's thought this is because they process sensory information differently, even though the 'hardware' (the actual eyes and ears) are no different.

This post has been edited by FloggedSynapse: Apr 20 2007, 14:29
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Societal Eclipse
post Apr 20 2007, 14:47
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On a particularly large dose of Elemicin in a crowded restaurant I was able to hear the conversation at some other table about 20 feet away with perfect clarity, as if it were just in front of me. Meanwhile the people speaking at my own table had mouths that moved but no sound was uttered (to me at least). I think it's safe to say it altered the way my mind chose to focus on sounds more than ever occurs naturally without chemical exposure. I am also completely deaf in my right ear and normally what would happen in such an environment is I would hear a whole lot of noise but nothing clearly, not even what I'm trying to focus us. In this experience it was as if everything else in the world was cut away for those moments (it lasted about 5 seconds I believe). So whether there was any actual magnification of the sound in question I don't know it was a case of that all, more so just blocking out what would normally cover it up.


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Big_Berny
post Apr 20 2007, 15:18
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It would be interesting if ABXing is easier with these mushrooms...
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boojum
post Apr 20 2007, 15:30
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Better living through chemicals; yeah, right. cool.gif


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Societal Eclipse
post Apr 20 2007, 15:57
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I don't think anyone here is/was advocating drug use. As per the earlier similar thread it offers potential insight into the way our hearing works.


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Nick E
post Apr 20 2007, 18:08
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Why the Latinate name? See George Orwell: Politics and the English Language:

QUOTE
An interesting illustration of this is the way in which the English flower names which were in use till very recently are being ousted by Greek ones, snapdragon becoming antirrhinum, forget-me-not becoming myosotis, etc. It is hard to see any practical reason for this change of fashion: it is probably due to an instinctive turning-awayfrom the more homely word and a vague feeling that the Greek word is scientific.


http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit

There's a perfectly good English name for these: liberty cap mushrooms.

Do they "help" hearing in some (undefined) manner? Or would someone who's consumed some falsely imagine that they had?

I suppose that could be tested in controlled experiments. I can't see it happening, since this would risk the health of the participants, so what reputable academic institution would undertake such experiments?

If an academic institution were to be interested in how altered states of consciousness might affect hearing (or any other sense) I'd suggest Buddhist monks used to meditating would be a better bet.
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FloggedSynapse
post Apr 20 2007, 21:29
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QUOTE (Nick E @ Apr 20 2007, 12:08) *
Why the Latinate name? See George Orwell: Politics and the English Language:

QUOTE
An interesting illustration of this is the way in which the English flower names which were in use till very recently are being ousted by Greek ones, snapdragon becoming antirrhinum, forget-me-not becoming myosotis, etc. It is hard to see any practical reason for this change of fashion: it is probably due to an instinctive turning-awayfrom the more homely word and a vague feeling that the Greek word is scientific.


http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit

There's a perfectly good English name for these: liberty cap mushrooms.



rolleyes.gif Next time I'll just call them shrooms. Happy? Technically the ones I had were NOT liberty caps - there are many different species of psychoactive mushrooms, what I had were found outdoors along the west coast of the US - 'cyan cubensis' or something like that. 'Cyan' because they have a blueish color. They're one of the most potent varieties of 'magic mushrooms'.

QUOTE
I suppose that could be tested in controlled experiments. I can't see it happening, since this would risk the health of the participants, so what reputable academic institution would undertake such experiments?


First off mushrooms do not damage your health - that's rubbish. Well you certainly may not be comfortable while 'under the influence' you aren't going to be physically harmed by them. As I tried to mention in my original post a very low dose - below what it would take to trip - is all that's needed to effect hearing. Anyway I agree we're not going to be seeing any controlled testing in the area anytime soon, hence my asking for opinions here.

QUOTE
If an academic institution were to be interested in how altered states of consciousness might affect hearing (or any other sense) I'd suggest Buddhist monks used to meditating would be a better bet.


I fail to see how this relates to shrooms altering hearing. That would be a different test smile.gif
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boojum
post Apr 20 2007, 21:51
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QUOTE (Societal Eclipse @ Apr 20 2007, 07:57) *
I don't think anyone here is/was advocating drug use. As per the earlier similar thread it offers potential insight into the way our hearing works.



Well, re-read this section: "For the past several years I've had a very nice cache of cyan mushrooms. Yes the psychoactive ones. The ones that make you trip.

I've noticed something interesting - I think they improve my hearing."


Seems to me "better hearing" is being presented as a form of "better living." It is not being classified as "same living" or "worse living" I do not think. I rarely see posts like these on the part of responsible scientific types doing real scientific research. I see lots of it by people who abuse drugs, though, and try to rationalize their behavior. Not that this is the case here, of course. I am sure that the cache of mushrooms has been used for scientific research for the past several years. The tripping was only an accidental by-product of this research, right? This is, I am sure, real scientific research. cool.gif

BTW the Latin word for "as" is "per."


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marcan
post Apr 20 2007, 22:11
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I tried, without too much excess, a lot of different things in my life (I'm more than 40 now) in order to improve my music and sound perception: Loudspeakers, amplifiers, converters, acoustic, foobar;) ... and also mind altering substance.
According to my current experience, the followings have improved my perception: cannabis, mdma, mda, piracetam,
Alcohol, cocaine, ... never improve something interesting for me ...
Mushr? I was too tripped to be focused on the details of the sound. Maybe there is some species at the appropriate level ?! (not too much according to FloggedSynapse)

Under "certain circumstances", I can easily abx the mp3 (aps) and the wav of a fairly large number of track (particularly with aggressive content in the treble). I generally failed to have the same result under normal circumstances.

I have also noticed that some drugs can modify your spectral balance. Mdma for example can create a kind of sensibility in the very high frequencies (>10 khz). So I can't let go a mix without a normal listening.

I have also notice that more than 10 hours of mix in the studio can give me a very good perception of the details ... but then I can miss the consistency and the balance of the overall track.

BTW, someone has a good tip for me? tongue.gif

Cheers,

Marcan

This post has been edited by marcan: Apr 22 2007, 00:10
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FloggedSynapse
post Apr 20 2007, 22:46
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QUOTE (boojum @ Apr 20 2007, 15:51) *
Seems to me "better hearing" is being presented as a form of "better living." It is not being classified as "same living" or "worse living" I do not think. I rarely see posts like these on the part of responsible scientific types doing real scientific research. I see lots of it by people who abuse drugs, though, and try to rationalize their behavior. Not that this is the case here, of course. I am sure that the cache of mushrooms has been used for scientific research for the past several years. The tripping was only an accidental by-product of this research, right? This is, I am sure, real scientific research. cool.gif


Good grief. Now you're reading far too much into this. I'm not trying to equate tripping with "better living". That's all you. Sheesh. And I'm not trying to rationalize my behavior either - if I want to trip I do so, no need to come up with an excuse. I simply noticed that small amounts of this drug seem to have a very noticeable effect on my hearing, much more so than other recreational drug that I've tried - and I've tried just about all of them smile.gif Take it or leave it. It's interesting that the most uptight responses to this topic are likely from people that have never tried shrooms. laugh.gif

It would be interesting to see some 'real' scientific research on this topic though I doubt it's going to happen anytime soon.
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Synthetic Soul
post Apr 21 2007, 08:01
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QUOTE (Nick E @ Apr 20 2007, 18:08) *
I suppose that could be tested in controlled experiments. I can't see it happening, since this would risk the health of the participants, so what reputable academic institution would undertake such experiments?
I can't help but think of the 1955 Panorama special in which Christopher Mayhew took mescaline and filmed the results.

QUOTE (FloggedSynapse @ Apr 20 2007, 21:29) *
First off mushrooms do not damage your health - that's rubbish. Well you certainly may not be comfortable while 'under the influence' you aren't going to be physically harmed by them. As I tried to mention in my original post a very low dose - below what it would take to trip - is all that's needed to effect hearing.
It's possible that you could physically harm yourself as a result of psychological effects. It is also possible that you could develop psychological problems from overuse. I don't think that you can deny that their use is potentially harmful. The problem with mushrooms, as opposed to labratory-created drugs, is that it is difficult to gauge their potency.

QUOTE (marcan @ Apr 20 2007, 22:11) *
I have also notice that more than 10 hours of mix in the studio can give me a very good perception of the details ... but then I can miss the consistency and the balance of the track.
I do wonder whether the issue here is down to concentration levels.

QUOTE (FloggedSynapse @ Apr 20 2007, 22:46) *
It's interesting that the most uptight responses to this topic are likely from people that have never tried shrooms. laugh.gif
Firstly that is an assumption on your part, and secondly... well... it's just plain dumb. Contrary to popular belief, smileys don't excuse such statements.

I'm sure you are aware that this thread is on the edge, and irresponsible statements will not help its cause. It would be a shame to see it pulled because of a few careless words.


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de Mon
post Apr 21 2007, 09:14
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Can you prove your listening abilities become better or is it just your hallucination? There should be a sober spectacor with you to prove it.


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znode
post Apr 21 2007, 09:16
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QUOTE (FloggedSynapse @ Apr 20 2007, 04:26) *
It would be interesting to actually measure this and see if there's a real difference in hearing acuity, or if it's all in your head unsure.gif


But hearing IS mostly in your head - so much postprocessing is done by the brain that it is impossible to define the sense of hearing without it.
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Akuostophile
post Apr 21 2007, 15:38
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It would be interesting to actually measure this and see if there's a real difference in hearing acuity, or if it's all in your head

I don't know a about a permanent change, but I do think there is a change. Many years ago when I did that sort of thing I noticed the same effect. One interesting note: my brother and I spent a night listening to music while doing shrooms and, on the afternoon following the trip, we turned the music back on only to notice that the volume was far too low for ordinary listening.

If I had the opportunity (training in the area and govt. approval) I would research the drug(s) myself. It might prove to offer breakthough opportunies for the hearing impaired. Problematically, our society has had such a reaction to the likes of Timothy Leary that research on the possible positive effects of psychoactive drugs is nonexistant.

If studies were conducted scientifically (i.e. using a control group, double blind, controled dosages, etc.) the risk to the test subjects would be virtually nil (particularly using controled dosages - - the really weird stuff starts at high dosages while the effect on hearing begins at a fairly low dose that has no real effect on the concious mind). I'm a scientist in a different field, old now and not inclined to the excesses of youth, but I remain curious as to the potential benefit that could be derived from this research.

Later
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The Seeker
post Apr 21 2007, 17:19
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Terence McKenna stated that even at moderate dosages, hallucinogens heighten visual and auditory acuity.


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Cornie
post Apr 21 2007, 18:24
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QUOTE (FloggedSynapse @ Apr 20 2007, 13:46) *
It would be interesting to see some 'real' scientific research on this topic though I doubt it's going to happen anytime soon.


Phenethylamines I Have Known And Loved:
A Chemical Love Story
By Alexander and Ann Shulgin
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online...al/pihkal.shtml

Tryptamines i Have Known And Loved:
The Chemistry Continues
By Alexander and Ann Shulgin
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online...al/tihkal.shtml

Both chronicling over 20 years research of the 2 main psychoactive molecules - Phenethylamine & Tryptamines and the literally thousands of molecular analogs....
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Akuostophile
post Apr 21 2007, 21:04
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[quote name='Cornie' date='Apr 21 2007, 13:24' post='486988']
[quote name='FloggedSynapse' post='486849' date='Apr 20 2007, 13:46']

Both chronicling over 20 years research of the 2 main psychoactive molecules - Phenethylamine & Tryptamines and the literally thousands of molecular analogs....
[/quote]

Neither of which deal with the issues discussed in this forum. Molecular structure does not the effect on hearing explain, nor does they test the efficacy of the drugs on hearing acuity.


BTW in my earlier post this "It would be interesting to actually measure this and see if there's a real difference in hearing acuity, or if it's all in your head " was a quote from a previous post.

Grace.
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Donunus
post Apr 21 2007, 21:20
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are we talking listening like daredevil here?
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Cornie
post Apr 21 2007, 21:27
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QUOTE (Akuostophile @ Apr 21 2007, 12:04) *
QUOTE (Cornie @ Apr 21 2007, 13:24) *

QUOTE (FloggedSynapse @ Apr 20 2007, 13:46) *


Both chronicling over 20 years research of the 2 main psychoactive molecules - Phenethylamine & Tryptamines and the literally thousands of molecular analogs....



Neither of which deal with the issues discussed in this forum. Molecular structure does not the effect on hearing explain, nor does they test the efficacy of the drugs on hearing acuity.


BTW in my earlier post this "It would be interesting to actually measure this and see if there's a real difference in hearing acuity, or if it's all in your head " was a quote from a previous post.

Grace.


Actually, my reply was to FloggedSynapse - as you can tell from the quotes. And the links do apply to the question.
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Akuostophile
post Apr 21 2007, 21:36
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QUOTE (Donunus @ Apr 21 2007, 16:20) *
are we talking listening like daredevil here?


Not really. The movie Daredevil made his auditory sensations like that of a bat. The sensation under shrooms include increased acuity and, at higher doses, the representation of sounds as visuals (I've forgotten the term, but someone mentioned it in this thread) but the visuals are patterns and colors. It's been 30 years for me so my memory is a bit faded. I still would like to see someone really analize the effect on hearing. Were I to do it over again I might like to do it myself (not the experince - - the analysis).

On a related note: while the texts quoted in a previous do go into more detail than mere molecular structure, they don't do a real scientific analysis of the effects of shrooms on hearing. They report some impressions etc.

Grace.
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Akuostophile
post Apr 21 2007, 21:50
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Actually, my reply was to FloggedSynapse - as you can tell from the quotes. And the links do apply to the question.

How? That is could you point me to a place within the texts you linked that would show that they conducted double blind, controlled, multiple subjects studies of the effects of psy. drugs on hearing acuity? I quickly scanned the materials and saw nothing that I would describe as a scientific analysis of the effects on hearing acuity. I certainly may have missed it.

Please give a more specific reference w/in the text that you would consider a definitive scientific study on hearing and I'd love to take a look (I don't want to read the whole thing). I really am interested in the topic.

Grace
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Cornie
post Apr 21 2007, 23:47
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QUOTE (Akuostophile @ Apr 21 2007, 12:50) *
Actually, my reply was to FloggedSynapse - as you can tell from the quotes. And the links do apply to the question.

How? That is could you point me to a place within the texts you linked that would show that they conducted double blind, controlled, multiple subjects studies of the effects of psy. drugs on hearing acuity? I quickly scanned the materials and saw nothing that I would describe as a scientific analysis of the effects on hearing acuity. I certainly may have missed it.

Please give a more specific reference w/in the text that you would consider a definitive scientific study on hearing and I'd love to take a look (I don't want to read the whole thing). I really am interested in the topic.

Grace


While it is true that neither book deals specifically with the effects of psy. drugs(sic) on hearing, they are 2 examples of research that has studied the effects of a large number of psychoactive molecular groupings - on the human organism

btw.... no where did I state that those links were to the full texts (they both run close to 1000 pages) - I was merely pointing them out as avenues of further reading.
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