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Ogg Vorbis in The Guardian (UK)
Tomb
post Apr 19 2007, 18:18
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I, like many, use the ogg vorbis encoder. This article in today's Guardian (UK) may be of interest. In summary the writer states that ogg is a music file format without support or hope. Any thoughts?
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vlada
post Apr 27 2007, 12:17
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Sure, I forgot to mention I mean SW players. And for WMP, iTunes or RealPlayer you can easily add Ogg Vorbis support AFAIK.

Very soon, IMHO there will be no cellphones, PDAs nor PMPs. It will be all one device running a regular OS. So it will support formats depending on installed SW.

Btw. Ogg Vorbis is the only good quality lossy format, that is free from any fees for player makers. So it is only a matter of laziness (or company strategy) if they don't support Ogg Vorbis now. It used to be a problem of performance and memory (MP3 is easier to decode).
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LANjackal
post Apr 27 2007, 12:33
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QUOTE (vlada @ Apr 27 2007, 07:17) *
And for WMP, iTunes or RealPlayer you can easily add Ogg Vorbis support AFAIK.
Yeah. Guess how many users (outside of HA.org) enable 3rd party codec support on their software players. Not that many.

It's not so much about what is possible as much as it is about how easy it is. To an average user, it's much easier to just use what's already on their PC than figure out how to even get started with OGG, which usually requires a visit to this website (or another like it, if any exist) if you're going to do it correctly, not to mention downloading and installing more software. Compare this with inserting a CD and simply clicking "Rip" in WMP or iTunes.

QUOTE (vlada @ Apr 27 2007, 07:17) *
So it will support formats depending on installed SW.
That's a very good description of the present. Only Linux supports OGG as shipped.

QUOTE (vlada @ Apr 27 2007, 07:17) *
So it is only a matter of laziness (or company strategy) if they don't support Ogg Vorbis now.
The more things a manufacturer officially supports, the more tech support resources it needs, which increases its costs. Hence OEMs tend not to officially support codecs, etc. that aren't sufficiently widespread.


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vlada
post Apr 29 2007, 09:50
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QUOTE (LANjackal @ Apr 27 2007, 13:33) *
Yeah. Guess how many users (outside of HA.org) enable 3rd party codec support on their software players. Not that many.


I would say almost everyone installs 3rd party decoders. People want to play "DivX movies", so they usually install a codecpack, some of them include support for Ogg Vorbis. I hate codecpacks, but Haali Media Splitter and ffdshow will do a very good job on playing Ogg Vorbis/Theora in DirectShow players. But Xiph.org should give the users a clear advice: "Use this software".

QUOTE (LANjackal @ Apr 27 2007, 13:33) *
It's not so much about what is possible as much as it is about how easy it is. To an average user, it's much easier to just use what's already on their PC than figure out how to even get started with OGG, which usually requires a visit to this website (or another like it, if any exist) if you're going to do it correctly, not to mention downloading and installing more software. Compare this with inserting a CD and simply clicking "Rip" in WMP or iTunes.


Yes, you're absolutely right here. This is what I said and wrote already many times. Using Ogg Vorbis is to complicated, things need to be easier to attract more users.
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2Bdecided
post Apr 30 2007, 09:52
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QUOTE (vlada @ Apr 29 2007, 09:50) *
I would say almost everyone installs 3rd party decoders.


You see, this is a perfect example of why you should think before you type.
In one short sentence, you have revealed so much about yourself - probably more than you ever intended.

While you intended to say "almost everyone installs 3rd party decoders", what you actually conveyed was "almost everyone I know installs 3rd party decoders, because I don't know any normal people at all. All my friends are highly computer literate. Most of them built their own PCs. I don't even talk to people who use WMA, especially those who use it while thinking it's mp3. And as for those people who play CDs in those really old things, er, CD players...!"

tongue.gif biggrin.gif

Sorry - couldn't resist.

There is a world out there that thinks "a music track on a computer" = "mp3". I think this will stay for a long time. I think people will be talking about "mp3s" long after the format is dead.

Just like people talk about "Hoovers" even if someone else made the vacuum cleaner.

Most normal people do not install codecs. Most normal people don't even install their own choice of media player unless someone else does it for them!

Cheers,
David.
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Posts in this topic
- Tomb   Ogg Vorbis in The Guardian (UK)   Apr 19 2007, 18:18
- - naylor83   QUOTE (Tomb @ Apr 19 2007, 19:18) Any tho...   Apr 19 2007, 18:22
- - Remedial Sound   I also don't agree with the quote (millions of...   Apr 19 2007, 19:20
|- - Nick E   QUOTE (Remedial Sound @ Apr 19 2007, 12:2...   Apr 19 2007, 19:44
|- - LANjackal   QUOTE (Nick E @ Apr 19 2007, 14:44) QUOTE...   Apr 19 2007, 20:32
|- - naylor83   Well, I guess, for me all that matters is that the...   Apr 19 2007, 22:16
- - LANjackal   QUOTE If you look at the Top Ten Reviews list of p...   Apr 19 2007, 19:34
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (LANjackal @ Apr 19 2007, 15:34) Tr...   Apr 19 2007, 22:58
|- - jcoalson   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Apr 19 2007, 16:58) QUO...   Apr 20 2007, 01:21
||- - rjamorim   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Apr 19 2007, 21:21) QUO...   Apr 23 2007, 11:54
||- - LANjackal   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Apr 23 2007, 06:54) Yea...   Apr 23 2007, 13:10
|||- - rjamorim   QUOTE (LANjackal @ Apr 23 2007, 09:10) If...   Apr 25 2007, 15:39
||||- - Julien   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Apr 25 2007, 16:39) I d...   Apr 25 2007, 17:53
||||- - LANjackal   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Apr 25 2007, 10:39) QUO...   Apr 25 2007, 18:36
||||- - rjamorim   QUOTE (LANjackal @ Apr 25 2007, 14:36) Th...   Apr 26 2007, 04:43
|||- - sonytp50   QUOTE (Rio @ Apr 23 2007, 07:05) We just ...   May 8 2007, 15:54
||- - jcoalson   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Apr 23 2007, 05:54) QUO...   May 8 2007, 22:47
|- - aabxx   QUOTE Besides, it's not that perfect for PC pl...   May 16 2007, 01:44
- - ChesterB   Sorry for the off-topic, but why do you guys talk ...   Apr 19 2007, 20:27
- - gameplaya15143   QUOTE (Tomb @ Apr 19 2007, 13:18) ogg is ...   Apr 19 2007, 22:15
|- - LANjackal   QUOTE (gameplaya15143 @ Apr 19 2007, 17:1...   Apr 19 2007, 22:51
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (gameplaya15143 @ Apr 19 2007, 18:1...   Apr 20 2007, 00:02
|- - Squeller   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Apr 19 2007, 15:02) In ...   Apr 22 2007, 11:58
- - Silversight   QUOTE An industry giant could drive support for Og...   Apr 20 2007, 00:12
|- - Maurits   QUOTE (Silversight @ Apr 19 2007, 23:12) ...   Apr 20 2007, 01:31
|- - LANjackal   QUOTE (Maurits @ Apr 19 2007, 20:31) Ther...   Apr 20 2007, 03:17
- - PatchWorKs   QUOTE (Silversight @ Apr 20 2007, 01:12) ...   Apr 20 2007, 10:32
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (PatchWorKs @ Apr 20 2007, 06:32) S...   Apr 20 2007, 10:55
|- - niktheblak   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Apr 20 2007, 12:55) Cou...   Apr 20 2007, 11:46
- - damaki   QUOTE (Squeller @ Apr 22 2007, 11:58) The...   Apr 22 2007, 12:52
- - maikmerten   Well, actually I think such DAP centric discussion...   Apr 22 2007, 14:38
- - Rio   Vorbis has just added one follower, and that's...   Apr 23 2007, 12:05
- - sketchy_c   My few personal ~128 kbps ABC/HR tests have given ...   Apr 23 2007, 13:14
- - naylor83   I have only converted one person into a Vorbis use...   Apr 26 2007, 22:40
- - gameplaya15143   QUOTE (maikmerten @ Apr 22 2007, 09:38) T...   Apr 26 2007, 23:07
- - turke   A question. Does it really worth to rip as ogg vor...   Apr 27 2007, 00:36
|- - Mr Bungle   QUOTE (turke @ Apr 27 2007, 09:36) A ques...   Apr 27 2007, 02:45
- - Nikaki   I don't need Vorbis to have "a promising ...   Apr 27 2007, 04:06
- - vlada   gameplaya15143 The latest information I heard is t...   Apr 27 2007, 08:04
|- - LANjackal   QUOTE (vlada @ Apr 27 2007, 03:04) turke ...   Apr 27 2007, 08:40
|- - Kirby54925   QUOTE (vlada @ Apr 27 2007, 00:04) gamepl...   Apr 29 2007, 10:41
- - vlada   Sure, I forgot to mention I mean SW players. And f...   Apr 27 2007, 12:17
|- - LANjackal   QUOTE (vlada @ Apr 27 2007, 07:17) And fo...   Apr 27 2007, 12:33
||- - vlada   QUOTE (LANjackal @ Apr 27 2007, 13:33) Ye...   Apr 29 2007, 09:50
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (vlada @ Apr 29 2007, 09:50) I woul...   Apr 30 2007, 09:52
||- - [JAZ]   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Apr 30 2007, 09:52) QU...   Apr 30 2007, 11:04
|- - eofor   QUOTE (vlada @ Apr 27 2007, 12:17) Ogg Vo...   Apr 27 2007, 14:00
|- - maikmerten   QUOTE (eofor @ Apr 27 2007, 13:00) ogg is...   Apr 30 2007, 12:23
- - Mercurio   As someone said, Ogg Vorbis is the standard for th...   Apr 28 2007, 12:08
|- - LANjackal   QUOTE (Mercurio @ Apr 28 2007, 07:08) Whe...   Apr 28 2007, 17:20
|- - aabxx   QUOTE (Mercurio @ Apr 28 2007, 03:08) And...   Jun 1 2007, 21:53
- - Hollunder   QUOTE (LANjackal @ Apr 27 2007, 13:33) QU...   Apr 28 2007, 12:55
- - Nikaki   Win/OSX do not want Vorbis to exist. Seems like th...   Apr 28 2007, 15:48
- - LANjackal   @2Bdecided: +1 to what you said. It's a common...   Apr 30 2007, 10:19
- - vlada   2Bdecided Well, yes you're partially ri...   Apr 30 2007, 16:48
- - Squeller   I have a strong reason rather to encode to nero aa...   May 7 2007, 13:49
- - Mercurio   On osnews there is a "Review: The OGG-Compati...   May 7 2007, 14:31
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Mercurio @ May 7 2007, 10:31) I th...   May 7 2007, 17:17
|- - Mercurio   QUOTE (rjamorim @ May 7 2007, 08:17) Don...   May 8 2007, 11:58
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Mercurio @ May 8 2007, 07:58) (but...   May 8 2007, 15:45
|- - Mercurio   QUOTE (rjamorim @ May 8 2007, 06:45) Yes....   May 8 2007, 16:32
|- - sonytp50   QUOTE The programmer of mp3splt is working to a gu...   May 8 2007, 16:59
- - Maurits   Well, if for your definition of "high quality...   May 8 2007, 12:20
- - Mercurio   Here at Hydrogenaudio there are a lot of sophists ...   May 8 2007, 15:06
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (sonytp50 @ May 8 2007, 11:54) In m...   May 9 2007, 00:21
|- - sonytp50   QUOTE (rjamorim @ May 8 2007, 23:21) Fine...   May 9 2007, 08:09
|- - pepoluan   QUOTE (sonytp50 @ May 9 2007, 14:09) QUOT...   May 16 2007, 08:49
- - jcoalson   but there's no need to wait, the ALAC decoder ...   May 9 2007, 04:43
- - pepoluan   This thread is rapidly converging with another thr...   May 19 2007, 06:36
- - hybridfan   "Ogg is still a long way behind other formats...   Jul 11 2007, 11:57


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