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What is going on with Vorbis? (or Xiph overall)
rjamorim
post Mar 3 2007, 16:03
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Today I was checking RareWares' links page to find broken links, and happened upon Xiph's page. I noticed the "news" there were 3-4 years old.

So I was wondering, does anyone, by any chance, know what is going on there? Are they working on Vorbis2, or Tarkin, or Theora? Have they disbanded and only the web pages remain? I remember that in Emmett's time, he would feed us news non-stop, mostly from #vorbis (he was a little too loud, matter of factly :B). Now, we listen nothing but crickets.

Do we have some insider here that knows if something is going on there, at all? Maybe Coalson or Valin?

And what the hell is Emmett up to anyway?

Thanks for any info.

R.


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vlada
post Apr 7 2007, 16:39
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I think this is one of the major problems. There are some people (just average users) who read about Ogg Vorbis, they heard it sounds better then MP3 and they want to try it. So they get to the official webpage and they hope to get an official tool to convert their CDs to Ogg Vorbis. But what do they find? An outdated CLI encoder and obviously they have no idea how to use it. Then there are links to many programs and they have no idea which one to choose.

Many people need to be told what to do. Use program X to create, tag and play the Ogg Vorbis files. This is all what they need. They are confused if there are more choices.

Ogg Vorbis format has all the advantages you can imagine. So why only a few people (including me) use it? Wrong marketing and missing easy to use tools and guides. All the development is not concentrated in one places and there are no good informations for end users. If you want to be successful, you have to concentrate on end users.

Look at Firefox - if you download it and install, it is as simple as possible. No need to set up anything, just use it. If you need more functions, then you are probably an advanced user, who knows how to install the proper extension. Opera has too many functions in default install and so it confuses users. And the market share shows you clearly, what most users want - a save browser which is just working.

Another example is the Matroska project: you have an official MKVToolnix program from Moritz Bunkus, which will convert almost anything to Matroska format. Then you have an official DirectShow splitter from Haali which will enable playback in all DS players. There are also libraries for developers, so they can add matroska support to their applications. The result: Matroska is becoming more and more popular, although it has very hard competition in AVI, MP4 and TS.

An interesting bottom line is, that Matroska gains it's popularity also because of Vorbis. It is the only container (except of the dead OGM format), which can store Vorbis sound and MPEG-4 video.
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Posts in this topic
- rjamorim   What is going on with Vorbis? (or Xiph overall)   Mar 3 2007, 16:03
- - HotshotGG   QUOTE And what the hell is Emmett up to anyway? ...   Mar 3 2007, 20:12
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (HotshotGG @ Mar 3 2007, 16:12) He ...   Mar 3 2007, 20:22
- - jorsol   Well I try to follow the progress in Xiph by the s...   Mar 3 2007, 20:47
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (jorsol @ Mar 3 2007, 16:47) and be...   Mar 3 2007, 21:11
||- - jaybeee   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Mar 3 2007, 20:11) Shit...   Mar 3 2007, 21:19
||- - Lyx   QUOTE (jaybeee @ Mar 3 2007, 21:19) QUOTE...   Mar 3 2007, 21:22
|- - kjoonlee   QUOTE (jorsol @ Mar 3 2007, 20:47) Vorbis...   Mar 4 2007, 11:51
|- - xiphmont   QUOTE (kjoonlee @ Mar 4 2007, 06:51) QUOT...   May 11 2007, 23:43
|- - Fandango   QUOTE (xiphmont @ May 12 2007, 00:43) The...   May 13 2007, 17:48
- - Emmett   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Mar 3 2007, 07:03) And ...   Mar 3 2007, 23:59
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Emmett @ Mar 3 2007, 19:59) Maybe ...   Mar 4 2007, 00:17
|- - Emmett   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Mar 3 2007, 15:17) Plan...   Mar 4 2007, 01:22
- - vlada   Do you remember this thread?   Mar 4 2007, 04:29
|- - Emmett   QUOTE (vlada @ Mar 3 2007, 19:29) Do you ...   Mar 4 2007, 06:02
||- - clb3092   You know, even if Xiph has slipped into coma OGG o...   Mar 4 2007, 09:04
||- - eofor   QUOTE (clb3092 @ Mar 4 2007, 09:04) I jus...   Mar 4 2007, 13:07
||- - clb3092   QUOTE (eofor @ Mar 4 2007, 04:07) QUOTE (...   Mar 5 2007, 20:27
||- - Lyx   QUOTE (clb3092 @ Mar 5 2007, 20:27) I did...   Mar 5 2007, 21:37
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (vlada @ Mar 4 2007, 00:29) Do you ...   Mar 4 2007, 13:24
- - Firon   The problem with having aoTuV is that it's not...   Mar 4 2007, 09:12
- - vlada   Well it was me, ho stated that the projects are de...   Mar 4 2007, 14:11
- - Lyx   I made experience with that last-mile thing issue ...   Mar 4 2007, 14:17
- - jorsol   QUOTE (kjoonlee @ Mar 4 2007, 04:51) QUOT...   Mar 4 2007, 18:24
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (jorsol @ Mar 5 2007, 02:24) Ghost ...   Mar 16 2007, 00:26
- - PatchWorKs   The most active Xiph project nowdays seems to be T...   Mar 4 2007, 18:35
|- - Kim_C   QUOTE (PatchWorKs @ Mar 4 2007, 19:35) Th...   Mar 4 2007, 20:08
|- - Emmett   QUOTE (PatchWorKs @ Mar 4 2007, 09:35) BT...   Mar 4 2007, 20:16
- - Lych   With all due respect to Vorbis, Theora, etc. Xiph ...   Mar 5 2007, 01:26
- - Firon   QUOTE (Lyx @ Mar 4 2007, 09:17) I doubt t...   Mar 5 2007, 05:52
- - spoon   The last thing Ogg Vorbis needs now is Ogg Vorbis ...   Mar 5 2007, 10:21
|- - Kef   QUOTE (spoon @ Mar 5 2007, 11:21) The las...   Mar 5 2007, 11:45
|- - eofor   As a successor/alternative to mp3, Vorbis has been...   Mar 5 2007, 14:07
- - vinnie97   Yea, all this doom and gloom about Vorbis is disco...   Mar 5 2007, 14:29
- - HotshotGG   QUOTE Since Vorbis is an open format, 3rd party su...   Mar 5 2007, 21:21
- - SebastianG   Hi! I just wanted to say there's currently...   Mar 5 2007, 22:37
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (SebastianG @ Mar 5 2007, 18:37) Hi...   Mar 12 2007, 23:17
- - Firon   Get someone besides Monty to merge aoyumi's wo...   Mar 6 2007, 07:30
- - gameplaya15143   QUOTE (SebastianG @ Mar 5 2007, 16:37) mu...   Mar 8 2007, 19:59
- - fpi   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Mar 3 2007, 09:03) Toda...   Mar 15 2007, 12:08
- - Justin Ruggles   I see that Xiph is mentoring projects for this yea...   Mar 17 2007, 23:39
- - 3ngel   Hi to all, i was just searching for information ab...   Mar 21 2007, 11:58
- - Triza   I wish Monty would be like Josh for FLAC. The latt...   Mar 22 2007, 22:41
|- - dyneq   QUOTE (Triza @ Mar 22 2007, 17:41) I wish...   Mar 23 2007, 00:08
|- - MedO   QUOTE (Triza @ Mar 22 2007, 22:41) ...Mon...   Mar 23 2007, 11:46
|- - aabxx   Why the heck is anyone complaining? Trust me when...   Apr 6 2007, 16:22
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (aabxx @ Apr 6 2007, 12:22) you mig...   Apr 6 2007, 17:18
|- - Nick E   QUOTE (aabxx @ Apr 6 2007, 09:22) And the...   Apr 7 2007, 16:02
- - vlada   I think this is one of the major problems. There a...   Apr 7 2007, 16:39
- - gameplaya15143   QUOTE (aabxx @ Apr 6 2007, 11:22) it will...   Apr 12 2007, 23:04
- - Synthetic Soul   Discussion about the Rarewares redesign moved to t...   Apr 14 2007, 06:54
- - maikmerten   As already said xiph.org is understaffed - and tho...   Apr 23 2007, 15:57
- - spoon   >This sadly means that there's apparently l...   Apr 23 2007, 19:48
- - vlada   maikmerten I absolutely agree with everything you ...   Apr 24 2007, 18:11
- - spoon   >AoTuV an official Xiph...balked at that You j...   May 13 2007, 17:04
- - vlada   An interesting new initiative: Play Ogg.   May 18 2007, 15:41
- - pepoluan   That's good news! Thanks for the link. I...   May 18 2007, 16:21
|- - SwiftBiscuit   QUOTE (pepoluan @ May 18 2007, 11:21) I...   May 18 2007, 20:09
|- - Nick E   QUOTE (pepoluan @ May 18 2007, 09:21) Tha...   May 20 2007, 17:43
|- - pepoluan   QUOTE (Nick E @ May 20 2007, 23:43) What ...   May 21 2007, 07:23
- - Fandango   On the http://playogg.org/ page I see no links to ...   May 18 2007, 20:25
|- - Demetris   QUOTE (Fandango @ May 18 2007, 22:25) [.....   May 18 2007, 22:32
|- - Fandango   QUOTE (Demetris @ May 18 2007, 23:32) So,...   May 19 2007, 00:30
- - vlada   Demetris> IMO both sentences are correct. It de...   May 19 2007, 04:22
- - pepoluan   But leaving out Winamp, which is the de facto most...   May 19 2007, 06:18
|- - sonytp50   QUOTE (pepoluan @ May 19 2007, 05:18) But...   May 22 2007, 10:44
|- - vlada   QUOTE (sonytp50 @ May 22 2007, 11:44) Als...   May 24 2007, 10:59
- - jorsol   I think that they choose VLC for various reasons.....   May 19 2007, 06:59
|- - vlada   QUOTE (jorsol @ May 19 2007, 07:59) QUOTE...   May 19 2007, 18:15
- - pepoluan   Okay, you have a point there, jorsol.   May 19 2007, 07:44
|- - Fandango   QUOTE (pepoluan @ May 19 2007, 08:44) Oka...   May 19 2007, 17:10
- - PatchWorKs   I still remember this one too... In my opinion vo...   May 19 2007, 08:50
- - Demetris   http://oggvorbis.fc2web.com/link.html It has two ...   May 19 2007, 21:52
|- - haregoo   QUOTE (Demetris @ May 20 2007, 05:52) Wha...   May 20 2007, 03:08
- - Enig123   Ogg community it says. Although I know little Japa...   May 20 2007, 01:13
- - Demetris   Enig123 and haregoo, thanks for the answers! :...   May 20 2007, 13:07
- - vlada   Nick E There are some IE compatibility hacks in th...   May 21 2007, 18:58
- - pepoluan   ... and the "Play Ogg" campaign is now m...   May 22 2007, 07:23
- - tempnegro   could of swore I had a post in here   May 23 2007, 02:03
- - pepoluan   See this: Wired has picked up on the Play Ogg ini...   May 23 2007, 19:32
|- - Fandango   QUOTE (pepoluan @ May 23 2007, 20:32) Wir...   May 23 2007, 23:12
- - gameplaya15143   QUOTE (jorsol @ May 19 2007, 01:59) ...Wi...   May 23 2007, 20:18
- - ckjnigel   Well, most people don't know about VBR and why...   May 24 2007, 16:26
|- - pepoluan   QUOTE (ckjnigel @ May 24 2007, 22:26) Wel...   May 25 2007, 09:23
- - askoff   I think that Vorbis has quite good support already...   May 25 2007, 11:19
- - Spikey   Well, for my money, I find the 'ease of encodi...   May 26 2007, 04:29
|- - vinnie97   QUOTE (Spikey @ May 25 2007, 19:29) If av...   May 26 2007, 11:21
|- - Junon   QUOTE (Spikey @ May 26 2007, 05:29) Incid...   May 26 2007, 15:07
|- - MedO   QUOTE (Junon @ May 26 2007, 16:07) He...   May 27 2007, 15:33
- - pepoluan   Just an anecdote from me: People keep asking me t...   May 27 2007, 17:06
- - Mercurio   QUOTE I think my greatest disappointment is that N...   May 28 2007, 11:22
|- - pepoluan   QUOTE (Mercurio @ May 28 2007, 17:22) QUO...   May 28 2007, 12:34
|- - gottkaiser   QUOTE (pepoluan @ May 28 2007, 13:34) Is ...   May 28 2007, 12:45
|- - pepoluan   QUOTE (gottkaiser @ May 28 2007, 18:45) Q...   May 28 2007, 13:02
|- - eofor   QUOTE (pepoluan @ May 28 2007, 13:02) QUO...   May 29 2007, 10:50
- - pepoluan   Why Audio Format Matters   May 29 2007, 10:18
- - bawjaws   I don't know if this has been mentioned alread...   May 29 2007, 12:00
|- - eofor   If Ogg Vorbis/Theora goes into HTML 5, that means ...   May 29 2007, 12:45
- - TREX6662k6   lol, no patents? I find that hard to imagine espec...   May 29 2007, 12:59
- - bawjaws   Theora *is* patented. Google or Wikipedia for more...   May 29 2007, 13:18
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