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Andre's EAC Offset Calculation
The Legioneer
post Nov 18 2006, 19:16
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Sorry to blatantly post a link to another thread, but I'm curious as to what the forum's take on this is:

http://www.digital-inn.de/exact-audio-copy...ay-offsets.html
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greynol
post Nov 28 2006, 08:40
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QUOTE (Spare Tire @ Nov 27 2006, 21:35) *
We've been talking about the 30 sample offset since the beginning of the thread, for three pages, why do i have to explicitly say that the there are 30 samples different from the "real" offset and what i've been using up to now.
So you can grasp how utterly trivial this whole thing is?

QUOTE (Spare Tire @ Nov 27 2006, 21:35) *
And how important is it? You're asking it as if track boundaries are arbitrary.
They pretty much are. Read the following questions and you'll better understand why.

QUOTE (Spare Tire @ Nov 27 2006, 21:35) *
How much sense would it make for a live musician to start playing at the middle of a song when you ask him for that song, or to start playing from the middle of last song when you ask for the one after that.
As if 680 microseconds is even comprable to the middle of a song.

You do realize that the finest resolution for which an album can be cut is 1/75 of a second? This is over an order of magnitude greater than this shift that is being discussed.

Do you think a live musician is going to alter the tempo of his or her performance just so the CD can be cut at precisely the correct point?

QUOTE (Spare Tire @ Nov 27 2006, 21:35) *
I don't see how it seems picky to want the track to start where it is, in absolute terms.
It isn't that it seems or doesn't seem picky, it is literally irrelevant.

Are you aware that the red book standard on digital audio has no definition of where a track starts in absolute terms?

Are you aware that CD players of all shapes and sizes, makes and models, do not adhere to any notion that a track begins in some absolute and calibrated spot?

...and last but by no means least...

Are you aware that you can buy two copies of the exact same title and the points where tracks are divided can be off by thousands of samples between the two copies?

QUOTE (Spare Tire @ Nov 27 2006, 21:35) *
So out of principle, even if it's an offset of one sample, it's one sample too much.
Who's principle?

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EDIT: Formatting

This post has been edited by greynol: Nov 28 2006, 08:44


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Posts in this topic
- The Legioneer   Andre's EAC Offset Calculation   Nov 18 2006, 19:16
- - GeSomeone   I'd say it's interesting, but Andre is rig...   Nov 18 2006, 19:53
- - greynol   I have yet to dive into the discussion and links, ...   Nov 18 2006, 20:17
- - The Legioneer   Without question, I understand Andre's point o...   Nov 18 2006, 20:45
- - Firon   Eh, 30 samples really is nothing.   Nov 18 2006, 22:47
- - rh2600   I wonder if there could just be a checkbox in the ...   Nov 18 2006, 23:54
- - damaki   Couldn't those 30 samples create problems if a...   Nov 18 2006, 23:55
- - pdq   In order to make a bit-perfect copy one must alway...   Nov 19 2006, 05:36
- - spoon   30 samples is really a non issue, and those 30 sam...   Nov 19 2006, 09:14
- - HbG   But they don't read for the purpose of storing...   Nov 19 2006, 12:31
- - Martin H   It's a well-known fact that different CD-DA ma...   Nov 19 2006, 17:11
|- - Pio2001   QUOTE (Martin H @ Nov 19 2006, 17:11) htt...   Nov 19 2006, 23:35
|- - bhoar   As for the AR issue, I wouldn't be surprised i...   Nov 20 2006, 01:13
|- - greynol   What part of this did you guys not read? QUOTE (P...   Nov 23 2006, 16:52
|- - Martin H   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Nov 19 2006, 23:35) [......   Dec 11 2006, 17:07
- - spoon   You have 8 million tracks submitted to the databas...   Nov 20 2006, 09:31
|- - greynol   QUOTE (spoon @ Nov 20 2006, 00:31) You ha...   Nov 20 2006, 20:01
- - dv1989   This is very interesting . . . one to watch for me...   Nov 20 2006, 21:39
- - Martin H   My vote defenetly goes for keeping the current ref...   Nov 21 2006, 12:42
- - dv1989   As I understand, manufacturers can press CD's ...   Nov 22 2006, 00:23
|- - GeSomeone   QUOTE (dv1989 @ Nov 22 2006, 01:23) ...Pl...   Nov 25 2006, 00:46
- - The Legioneer   Thanks for everyone's answers on the subject. ...   Nov 22 2006, 02:53
- - greynol   QUOTE (dv1989 @ Nov 21 2006, 15:23) Howev...   Nov 22 2006, 03:33
- - Spare Tire   There are no CRC database for image+cue yet so i...   Nov 23 2006, 06:48
- - Cosmo   If it was corrected to true zero, what percent of ...   Nov 23 2006, 09:19
- - Pio2001   What does "bit perfect" mean to you ? F...   Nov 23 2006, 12:39
|- - Cosmo   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Nov 23 2006, 06:39) What...   Nov 23 2006, 15:07
- - Sebastian Mares   I think he means having an exact image of the audi...   Nov 23 2006, 13:22
|- - kwanbis   I never understood this obsession with having a ...   Nov 23 2006, 14:20
|- - bhoar   QUOTE (kwanbis @ Nov 23 2006, 09:20) I ne...   Nov 23 2006, 20:23
|- - pepoluan   QUOTE (kwanbis @ Nov 23 2006, 20:20) I ne...   Dec 11 2006, 17:16
|- - Cartoon   QUOTE (pepoluan @ Dec 11 2006, 17:16) QUO...   Dec 11 2006, 19:00
- - Moitah   For what it's worth, I used a method similar t...   Nov 23 2006, 14:44
- - Martin H   It's nearly always possible to get all the aud...   Nov 23 2006, 14:52
- - Moitah   I should have worded that last sentence differentl...   Nov 23 2006, 17:19
- - greynol   QUOTE (Moitah @ Nov 23 2006, 08:19) I don...   Nov 23 2006, 17:31
- - Sebastian Mares   I am a bit confused and hope that you can help me ...   Nov 23 2006, 20:40
|- - The Legioneer   QUOTE (Sebastian Mares @ Nov 23 2006, 14...   Nov 23 2006, 21:20
||- - Martin H   QUOTE (The Legioneer @ Nov 23 2006, 21:20...   Nov 24 2006, 11:50
|- - Pio2001   QUOTE (Moitah @ Nov 23 2006, 14:44) For w...   Nov 24 2006, 00:38
|- - Sebastian Mares   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Nov 24 2006, 00:38) In o...   Nov 24 2006, 07:10
|- - Pio2001   QUOTE (Sebastian Mares @ Nov 24 2006, 07...   Nov 24 2006, 12:59
- - Sebastian Mares   Ah, I see, so the problem is finding out how to de...   Nov 23 2006, 21:57
- - Sebastian Mares   I would answer all questions with "yes"....   Nov 24 2006, 17:48
|- - Pio2001   QUOTE (benski @ Nov 24 2006, 20:37) QUOTE...   Nov 25 2006, 00:36
- - dv1989   Then, without manually checking pregaps and lead-i...   Nov 24 2006, 17:55
- - Sebastian Mares   Wondering about one thing... I remember burning a ...   Nov 24 2006, 18:31
|- - benski   QUOTE (Sebastian Mares @ Nov 24 2006, 12...   Nov 24 2006, 18:56
- - greynol   QUOTE (bhoar @ Nov 23 2006, 11:23) QUOTE ...   Nov 24 2006, 20:25
|- - Sebastian Mares   QUOTE (greynol @ Nov 24 2006, 20:25) It i...   Nov 24 2006, 21:20
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Sebastian Mares @ Nov 24 2006, 12...   Nov 24 2006, 21:33
- - Sebastian Mares   So Nero CD/DVD Speed also relies on EAC's calc...   Nov 24 2006, 20:26
|- - benski   QUOTE (Sebastian Mares @ Nov 24 2006, 14...   Nov 24 2006, 20:37
- - Sebastian Mares   One more thing - do Plextors have a 0 samples read...   Nov 24 2006, 22:42
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Sebastian Mares @ Nov 24 2006, 13...   Nov 24 2006, 22:55
- - Sebastian Mares   But what do you do with drives that have asymmetri...   Nov 24 2006, 23:14
- - greynol   Just follow the regular equation: write samples o...   Nov 24 2006, 23:45
- - Sebastian Mares   To be honest, I guess I will dump this whole offse...   Nov 24 2006, 23:49
- - greynol   From what I understand, Andre used the median valu...   Nov 25 2006, 00:22
- - IpseDixit   QUOTE Did Ipsedixit by any means used Plextor (par...   Nov 25 2006, 05:23
- - Pio2001   If you mean the drive used for the experiment, it ...   Nov 25 2006, 13:07
- - rh2600   Does this issue only effect the first 30 samples o...   Nov 25 2006, 23:03
- - Sebastian Mares   It affects either the first or the last track.   Nov 25 2006, 23:07
- - greynol   QUOTE (Sebastian Mares @ Nov 25 2006, 14...   Nov 25 2006, 23:20
- - Sebastian Mares   I was referring to data being lost, sorry. Of cour...   Nov 25 2006, 23:50
- - rh2600   Oh ok, so in theory, the 30 samples that should be...   Nov 26 2006, 00:21
- - greynol   QUOTE (rh2600 @ Nov 25 2006, 15:21) is th...   Nov 26 2006, 01:15
- - Sebastian Mares   For a moment I thought you mean "no, data wil...   Nov 26 2006, 10:00
- - Spare Tire   If you rip only certain tracks, then you could say...   Nov 27 2006, 04:06
- - greynol   QUOTE (Spare Tire @ Nov 26 2006, 19:06) I...   Nov 27 2006, 08:12
- - dv1989   Do skew or the corrected offset affect the accurac...   Nov 27 2006, 12:17
|- - The Legioneer   QUOTE (greynol @ Nov 27 2006, 02:12) Thin...   Nov 28 2006, 04:24
|- - greynol   QUOTE (The Legioneer @ Nov 27 2006, 19:24...   Nov 28 2006, 09:51
|- - The Legioneer   QUOTE (greynol @ Nov 28 2006, 03:51) QUOT...   Nov 28 2006, 12:38
- - Spare Tire   QUOTE (greynol @ Nov 27 2006, 02:12) IMO,...   Nov 28 2006, 06:35
- - greynol   QUOTE (Spare Tire @ Nov 27 2006, 21:35) W...   Nov 28 2006, 08:40
- - Pio2001   I prefer the analogy of the needle. When someone u...   Nov 29 2006, 01:05
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Nov 28 2006, 16:05) But ...   Nov 29 2006, 01:14
- - dv1989   So, who is thinking of adopting this new reference...   Dec 11 2006, 16:38
|- - evereux   QUOTE (dv1989 @ Dec 11 2006, 15:38) So, w...   Dec 11 2006, 19:49
||- - greynol   QUOTE (evereux @ Dec 11 2006, 10:49) I kn...   Dec 11 2006, 19:55
|- - GeSomeone   QUOTE (dv1989 @ Dec 11 2006, 17:38) So, w...   Dec 12 2006, 16:25
- - dv1989   Martin, I agree; any more light shed by such knowl...   Dec 11 2006, 17:19
- - Martin H   QUOTE (Cartoon)So why should I care about bit-perf...   Dec 11 2006, 19:11
|- - Cartoon   QUOTE (Martin H @ Dec 11 2006, 19:11) QUO...   Dec 11 2006, 21:26
- - greynol   This new reference isn't going to give you cop...   Dec 11 2006, 19:16
- - pepoluan   As if that is audible anyway. HA upholds audibili...   Dec 11 2006, 19:33
- - greynol   The ability to ABX a track that is offset by 30 sa...   Dec 11 2006, 19:41
- - Firon   But what if those 30 samples are null? Can you ABX...   Dec 11 2006, 21:17
- - dv1989   This is beginning to remind me of Aquarium's p...   Dec 12 2006, 00:19
- - greynol   In case that was directed at me, here are my ABX r...   Dec 12 2006, 04:19
- - Firon   What did you test though? 30 samples of null or a ...   Dec 12 2006, 04:35
- - greynol   The end of a track just prior to the beginning of ...   Dec 12 2006, 08:37
- - evereux   You do realise that the audiophile crowd (those wh...   Dec 12 2006, 10:23
- - Martin H   Personally i will continue to use Andre's refe...   Dec 12 2006, 16:50
- - DrazardX   All of this reminds me of something I wanted to tr...   Dec 13 2006, 23:20
- - greynol   QUOTE (evereux @ Dec 12 2006, 01:23) You ...   Dec 14 2006, 00:24
- - DrazardX   I didn't think you could mount the images beca...   Dec 14 2006, 01:51
- - greynol   QUOTE (DrazardX @ Dec 13 2006, 16:51) I d...   Dec 14 2006, 03:30
- - Cosmo   QUOTE (DrazardX @ Dec 13 2006, 19:51) I d...   Dec 14 2006, 03:44
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