IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

WinZIP 11.0 beta using WavPack?!, If true is it legal?
DARcode
post Oct 23 2006, 20:43
Post #1





Group: Members (Donating)
Posts: 681
Joined: 10-January 05
From: Italy
Member No.: 18968



From the Maximum Compression home page:
QUOTE
[WinZIP 11.0 beta] now also has a special algorithm to compress .wav files!. Research done by Guillermo Gabrielli shows the audio compressor used for this is WavPack (using Lossless, High compression mode).
Is it true and if so legal?

More info from the guestbook:
QUOTE
posted: 10/20/2006 02:36 PM

>winzip v11.0 beta is out ..

The audio compressor is WAVPACK. The WinZip 11 archives can be decoded with WVUNPACK (Wavpack decoder). According to WVUNPACK -ss (Super Summary) it's using Lossless High compression, but no Extra:
WVUNPACK -ss MWZ.zip

WVUNPACK Hybrid Lossless Audio Decompressor Win32 Version 4.31 2005-12-10
Copyright 1998 - 2005 Conifer Software. All Rights Reserved.


file name: MWZ.zip
file size: 27780736 bytes
source: 16-bit ints at 44100 Hz
channels: 2 (stereo)
duration: 0:03:53.11
modalities: lossless, high
compression: 32.44%
ave bitrate: 953 kbps
encoder version: 4

Dc

EDIT: Post icon + guestbook part.

This post has been edited by DARcode: Oct 23 2006, 20:46


--------------------
WavPack 4.70.0 -b384hx6cmv/qaac 2.41 -V 100
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
db1989
post Oct 23 2006, 22:42
Post #2





Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 5275
Joined: 23-June 06
Member No.: 32180



Eh? So it creates files with an extension of .zip, yet which are in WavPack format? Boy, that'll go down well with people who haven't heard of WavPack . . . or am I missing something?
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
ggf31416
post Oct 23 2006, 23:48
Post #3





Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 1-June 06
Member No.: 31342



QUOTE (dv1989 @ Oct 23 2006, 18:42) *
Eh? So it creates files with an extension of .zip, yet which are in WavPack format?


The archives use the zip format, but the compressed data which is inside is in Wavpack format. While existing zip programs can browse the "new" zips WVUNPACK can, under some circumstances, skip the ZIP header and decode the wavpack data. However foobar2000 cannot play the files.

This post has been edited by ggf31416: Oct 23 2006, 23:51
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Fandango
post Oct 24 2006, 01:21
Post #4





Group: Members
Posts: 1548
Joined: 13-August 03
Member No.: 8353



QUOTE (ggf31416 @ Oct 24 2006, 00:48) *
However foobar2000 cannot play the files.
That's not completely true. When the extension is not ZIP but WV, foobar2000 will (try to) skip the PK header, too. tongue.gif

QUOTE (rjamorim @ Oct 24 2006, 01:55) *
It is indeed perfectly legal. Are they crediting "Conifer Software" somewhere? That's the only meaningful requirement in the license.
Hehe... now that you mentioned it. It's interesting that WavPack isn't mentioned anywhere on their website or the documentation that comes along with the software... instead we can read stuff like this:
QUOTE
Zip .wav Music Files
A special algorithm will compress .wav files smaller than ever.
Also the MS help files that come along with the Packer don't acknowledge WavPack or its creator at all. You can check for yourself. Just in case they silently add the Acknowledgement, the MD5 of the installer is: D0AE7158522F12E20953F1C88D1A9CCC (wz110beta.exe - Build 7291)

IMHO, that's hardly legal. It doesn't matter if it's not yet final, even a beta release is a release. David Bryant should contact them, so it can be fixed. I don't think it's a big deal when they agree to include his name. But nevertheless, the total absence of "Wavpack" or "Bryant" in all documentation and also the way of introducing the new audio compression feature leaves me with a very special feeling that they wanted to sell the new "special algorithm" that "compress[es] .wav files smaller than ever" as their very own creation.

This post has been edited by Fandango: Oct 24 2006, 02:00
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Liisachan
post Oct 24 2006, 08:27
Post #5





Group: Members (Donating)
Posts: 119
Joined: 9-July 04
Member No.: 15225



QUOTE (Fandango @ Oct 24 2006, 00:21) *
Hehe... now that you mentioned it. It's interesting that WavPack isn't mentioned anywhere on their website or the documentation that comes along with the software... instead we can read stuff like this:
QUOTE
Zip .wav Music Files
A special algorithm will compress .wav files smaller than ever.
Also the MS help files that come along with the Packer don't acknowledge WavPack or its creator at all. You can check for yourself. Just in case they silently add the Acknowledgement, the MD5 of the installer is: D0AE7158522F12E20953F1C88D1A9CCC (wz110beta.exe - Build 7291)


They also say:
QUOTE
Zip .wav Music Files
When you select our Best Compression Method, we use a new compression algorithm for lossless compression of .wav files. A must-have for music lovers who don't want to compromise the file integrity or sound quality.

It's a good idea, but the above explanation is slightly insincere, as true music lovers don't and shouldn't use ZIP this way to compress standalone .wav. "A must-have for music lovers who don't want to compromise the file integrity or sound quality" is, obviously, not WinZip but WavPack or other lossless compressors.
Imho this new approach of WinZip would work best for game lovers when they compress some kind of a game ISO image, so called mix-mode, which consists of track1.iso+track2.wav+track3.wav+...
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Borisz
post Oct 24 2006, 14:48
Post #6





Group: Members
Posts: 381
Joined: 27-September 03
Member No.: 9041



QUOTE (Liisachan @ Oct 24 2006, 09:27) *
Imho this new approach of WinZip would work best for game lovers when they compress some kind of a game ISO image, so called mix-mode, which consists of track1.iso+track2.wav+track3.wav+...

Which begs the question: does Winzip actually search for pcm algorythms when using the wavpack compression, or will it only use wavpack when it encounters a wav file? Because if it actually compresses based on code and not file header/extension, it could be a powerful tool for zipping bin/cue images with audio tracks (raw pcm).


--------------------
http://evilboris.sonic-cult.net/346/
Sega Saturn, Shiro!
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
ggf31416
post Oct 24 2006, 15:15
Post #7





Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 1-June 06
Member No.: 31342



QUOTE (Borisz @ Oct 24 2006, 10:48) *
Which begs the question: does Winzip actually search for pcm algorythms when using the wavpack compression, or will it only use wavpack when it encounters a wav file? Because if it actually compresses based on code and not file header/extension, it could be a powerful tool for zipping bin/cue images with audio tracks (raw pcm).


I renamed a wav file to iso and Winzip used PPMd instead of Wavpack for compress it, so it's based on extensions.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Fandango
post Oct 24 2006, 15:18
Post #8





Group: Members
Posts: 1548
Joined: 13-August 03
Member No.: 8353



QUOTE (ggf31416 @ Oct 24 2006, 16:15) *
so it's based on extensions.
Which leads me to the question... have you tried the opposite? The result might be interesting. laugh.gif
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- DARcode   WinZIP 11.0 beta using WavPack?!   Oct 23 2006, 20:43
- - Fandango   QUOTE (DARcode @ Oct 23 2006, 21:43) Is i...   Oct 23 2006, 21:07
- - Bylie   If my memory serves me right didn't wavpack us...   Oct 23 2006, 21:11
- - Fandango   @Bylie: Exactly!   Oct 23 2006, 21:14
- - dv1989   Eh? So it creates files with an extension of .zip,...   Oct 23 2006, 22:42
|- - ggf31416   QUOTE (dv1989 @ Oct 23 2006, 18:42) Eh? S...   Oct 23 2006, 23:48
|- - Fandango   QUOTE (ggf31416 @ Oct 24 2006, 00:48) How...   Oct 24 2006, 01:21
|- - Liisachan   QUOTE (Fandango @ Oct 24 2006, 00:21) Heh...   Oct 24 2006, 08:27
|- - Borisz   QUOTE (Liisachan @ Oct 24 2006, 09:27) Im...   Oct 24 2006, 14:48
|- - ggf31416   QUOTE (Borisz @ Oct 24 2006, 10:48) Which...   Oct 24 2006, 15:15
|- - Fandango   QUOTE (ggf31416 @ Oct 24 2006, 16:15) so ...   Oct 24 2006, 15:18
|- - ggf31416   QUOTE (Fandango @ Oct 24 2006, 11:18) Whi...   Oct 24 2006, 15:40
- - xmixahlx   sounds like a good idea to me!   Oct 24 2006, 00:09
- - rjamorim   It is indeed perfectly legal. Are they crediting ...   Oct 24 2006, 00:55
- - bryant   Thanks for the heads-up on this, it's very int...   Oct 24 2006, 07:16
|- - Fandango   QUOTE (bryant @ Oct 24 2006, 08:16) The B...   Oct 24 2006, 15:09
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Fandango @ Oct 24 2006, 11:09) QUO...   Oct 24 2006, 16:24
- - shadowking   Awesome stuff..   Oct 24 2006, 07:53
- - Liisachan   And, if 7-ZIP, WinRAR, etc. are going to try to be...   Oct 24 2006, 08:54
- - dv1989   ^ Well, there's the first evidence of a mentio...   Oct 24 2006, 18:43
- - bryant   WinZIP contacted me early today before I was even ...   Oct 26 2006, 05:00
|- - DARcode   QUOTE (bryant @ Oct 26 2006, 06:00) WinZI...   Oct 26 2006, 08:50
- - Firon   THat's pretty cool, having WavPack be more wid...   Oct 26 2006, 09:14
- - dv1989   Congratulations, David!   Oct 26 2006, 10:59
- - Synthetic Soul   Indeed. A nice bit of well-deserved publicity for...   Oct 26 2006, 13:23
- - guruboolez   Does the compressor use the switch improving the r...   Oct 26 2006, 14:18
|- - Liisachan   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Oct 26 2006, 13:18) D...   Oct 26 2006, 15:52
|- - pepoluan   QUOTE (Liisachan @ Oct 26 2006, 21:52) In...   Oct 27 2006, 10:16
|- - smz   QUOTE (pepoluan @ Oct 27 2006, 11:16) Alt...   Oct 27 2006, 11:09
- - Fandango   I was thinking the same, HA.org apparently receive...   Oct 27 2006, 18:38
- - Sebastian Mares   Maybe a free copy of WinZip. Anyways, I hope WinRA...   Oct 27 2006, 19:31
|- - Egor   QUOTE (Sebastian Mares @ Oct 28 2006, 01...   Oct 27 2006, 19:51
|- - Borisz   QUOTE (Sebastian Mares @ Oct 27 2006, 19...   Nov 22 2006, 20:13
|- - bryant   QUOTE (Borisz @ Nov 22 2006, 11:13) QUOTE...   Nov 24 2006, 04:52
- - Sebastian Mares   Well, then it would be nothing more than a front-e...   Oct 27 2006, 20:01
- - Egor   Hmm, then an ideal variant would be .wv in .zip wi...   Oct 27 2006, 20:35
- - Sebastian Mares   That's a pretty good idea Egor!   Oct 27 2006, 20:46
- - pepoluan   You know, Sebastian, you sound like you're the...   Oct 27 2006, 21:41
- - Sebastian Mares   No way, I'm a WinRAR fan.   Oct 27 2006, 22:01
- - DARcode   RE: http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/Press.jsp?mo...t...   Dec 16 2006, 14:04
- - airon   What I hope this inspires is that other backup too...   Dec 30 2006, 17:10
- - Sebastian Mares   Seems that WinRAR is not interested into adding Wa...   Dec 30 2006, 17:23
- - amano   Well, maybe Igor Pavlov from 7-Zip could be convin...   Dec 30 2006, 18:02
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (amano @ Dec 30 2006, 14:02) Well, ...   Dec 30 2006, 20:44
|- - amano   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Dec 30 2006, 11:44) QUO...   Dec 30 2006, 23:06
- - airon   That is a shame, since now Winzip will be the only...   Dec 30 2006, 22:22
- - DARcode   Pavlov is currently taking into serious considerat...   Jan 4 2007, 10:31
- - pepoluan   David, You got the mug & t-shirt yet?   Feb 19 2007, 09:37
- - bryant   QUOTE (pepoluan @ Feb 19 2007, 00:37) You...   Feb 20 2007, 07:52
- - Squeller   QUOTE (bryant @ Feb 19 2007, 22:52) It wa...   Feb 20 2007, 08:58
- - bryant   QUOTE (Squeller @ Feb 19 2007, 23:58) She...   Feb 21 2007, 15:12
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (bryant @ Feb 21 2007, 11:12) QUOTE...   Feb 21 2007, 15:57


Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th August 2014 - 16:47