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Different schools of thought regarding EAC, Secure vs Test & Copy Burst.
EagleScout1998
post Oct 15 2006, 04:31
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There appears to be two different schools of thought regarding the accuracy of using burst mode in conjunction with test and copy. It is without question that burst mode alone is unwise. However, it makes sense to me that if the test and copy CRCs are a match, than the rip is as accurate as it can get. In fact, I believe I have read somewhere that the author of EAC (Andre Wiethoff) uses this method all the time. In my mind, matching CRCs are a better way to gauge the accuracy of a rip than a mere message saying "no errors occured."

I do somewhat question using this method on discs in less than fair condition. I do know that it is possible that a read error will give the same value twice in a row (but even secure mode would be compromised in that situation).

I would be perfectly comfortable using this method as well if it were not for the opinions of those that firmly belief secure mode is the ONLY way to go. I would not be opposed to using secure mode, except I am re-ripping my CD collection into a lossless format. (I am kicking myself because I used lossy the first time). I do not want to spend an entire year doing this (I have over 1,000 CDs).

Is there a definitive answer?
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funkyblue
post Oct 16 2006, 00:59
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QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 16 2006, 06:15) *
It's all simply a means to an end. Matching CRCs does not mean a rip was accurate. Precise, yes, accurate no.


I would dispute that. The track would be accurate. I would say it's near IMPOSSIBLE at such high rip speeds to get the SAME CRC if there was ANY errors on the disc. For all intents and purposes Bust Mode T & C with Matching CRC's is ACCURATE!
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greynol
post Oct 16 2006, 05:30
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QUOTE (funkyblue @ Oct 15 2006, 16:59) *
I would dispute that. The track would be accurate. I would say it's near IMPOSSIBLE at such high rip speeds to get the SAME CRC if there was ANY errors on the disc. For all intents and purposes Bust Mode T & C with Matching CRC's is ACCURATE!

I'm guessing you've never encountered a consistent error before?

I've seen plenty. The great thing about consistent errors is that you can easily reproduce your findings. Would you like to see some log files or links demonstrating this? No need to answer, here's one of the more troubling rips I've seen:

CODE
EAC extraction logfile from 9. September 2006, 0:07 for CD
Dire Straits / Alchemy Part One

Used drive : PLEXTOR DVDR PX-760A Adapter: 1 ID: 1
Read mode : Burst
Read offset correction : 30
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : Yes

Used output format : C:\Program Files\ExactAudioCopy\Flac\flac.exe (User Defined Encoder)
320 kBit/s
Additional command line options : -T "artist=%a" -T "title=%t" -T "album=%g" -T "date=%y" -T "tracknumber=%n" -T "genre=%m" %s -8 --verify

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface


Track 5
Filename E:\Ripped CD's\Rerip\Dire Straits - 05 - Private Investigations.wav

Peak level 89.1 %
Test CRC 570D3692
Copy CRC 570D3692
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report


------------------------------------------------------------

EAC extraction logfile from 9. September 2006, 0:12 for CD
Dire Straits / Alchemy Part One

Used drive : PLEXTOR DVDR PX-760A Adapter: 1 ID: 1
Read mode : Secure with C2, accurate stream, disable cache
Read offset correction : 30
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : Yes

Used output format : C:\Program Files\ExactAudioCopy\Flac\flac.exe (User Defined Encoder)
320 kBit/s
Additional command line options : -T "artist=%a" -T "title=%t" -T "album=%g" -T "date=%y" -T "tracknumber=%n" -T "genre=%m" %s -8 --verify

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface


Track 5
Filename E:\Ripped CD's\Rerip\Dire Straits - 05 - Private Investigations.wav

Peak level 89.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 6982AF7B
Copy CRC 6982AF7B
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

------------------------------------------------------------

EAC extraction logfile from 9. September 2006, 1:24 for CD
Dire Straits / Alchemy - Dire Straits Live Part One

Used drive : PLEXTOR CD-ROM PX-32TS Adapter: 0 ID: 3
Read mode : Burst
Read offset correction : 679
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : Yes

Used output format : C:\Program Files\ExactAudioCopy095pb5\Flac\flac.exe (User Defined Encoder)
320 kBit/s
Additional command line options : -T "artist=%a" -T "title=%t" -T "album=%g" -T "date=%y" -T "tracknumber=%n" -T "genre=%m" %s -8 --verify

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface


Track 5
Filename G:\TEMP\alchemy\Dire Straits - 05 - Private Investigations.wav

Peak level 89.1 %
Test CRC 570D3692
Copy CRC 570D3692
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

------------------------------------------------------------

EAC extraction logfile from 9. September 2006, 1:18 for CD
Dire Straits / Alchemy - Dire Straits Live Part One

Used drive : PLEXTOR CD-ROM PX-32TS Adapter: 0 ID: 3
Read mode : Secure with C2, accurate stream, NO disable cache
Read offset correction : 679
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : Yes

Used output format : C:\Program Files\ExactAudioCopy095pb5\Flac\flac.exe (User Defined Encoder)
320 kBit/s
Additional command line options : -T "artist=%a" -T "title=%t" -T "album=%g" -T "date=%y" -T "tracknumber=%n" -T "genre=%m" %s -8 --verify

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface


Track 5
Filename G:\TEMP\alchemy\Dire Straits - 05 - Private Investigations.wav

Peak level 89.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 56C511B5
Copy CRC 56C511B5
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

------------------------------------------------------------

EAC extraction logfile from 9. September 2006, 2:00 for CD
Dire Straits / Alchemy Part One

Used drive : HL-DT-STDVD-ROM GDR8164B Adapter: 0 ID: 1
Read mode : Burst
Read offset correction : 102
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

Used output format : C:\Program Files\ExactAudioCopy\Flac\flac.exe (User Defined Encoder)
320 kBit/s
Additional command line options : -T "artist=%a" -T "title=%t" -T "album=%g" -T "date=%y" -T "tracknumber=%n" -T "genre=%m" %s -8 --verify

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface


Track 5
Filename E:\Ripped CD's\Rerip\Dire Straits - 05 - Private Investigations.wav

Peak level 89.1 %
Test CRC F08A88E8
Copy CRC B35EA6F3
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

------------------------------------------------------------

EAC extraction logfile from 9. September 2006, 0:32 for CD
Dire Straits / Alchemy Part One

Used drive : HL-DT-STDVD-ROM GDR8164B Adapter: 0 ID: 1
Read mode : Secure with C2, accurate stream, disable cache
Read offset correction : 102
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

Used output format : C:\Program Files\ExactAudioCopy\Flac\flac.exe (User Defined Encoder)
320 kBit/s
Additional command line options : -T "artist=%a" -T "title=%t" -T "album=%g" -T "date=%y" -T "tracknumber=%n" -T "genre=%m" %s -8 --verify

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface


Track 5
Filename E:\Ripped CD's\Rerip\Dire Straits - 05 - Private Investigations.wav

Peak level 89.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC B35EA6F3
Copy CRC B35EA6F3
Copy OK

No errors occured

------------------------------------------------------------

End of status report

EAC extraction logfile from 9. September 2006, 0:36 for CD
Dire Straits / Alchemy - Dire Straits Live Part One

Used drive : _NEC DVD_RW ND-3540A Adapter: 1 ID: 0
Read mode : Burst
Read offset correction : 48
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

Used output format : C:\Program Files\ExactAudioCopy\Lame\LAME.EXE (Monkey's Audio Lossless Encoder)
Fast Lossless Compression
Additional command line options : %l--alt-preset 128%l%h--alt-preset standard%h %s %d

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface


Track 5
Filename D:\MP3 nog uitzoeken\Posten\Dire Straits - 05 - Private Investigations.wav

Peak level 89.1 %
Test CRC 570D3692
Copy CRC 570D3692
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

------------------------------------------------------------

EAC extraction logfile from 9. September 2006, 0:39 for CD
Dire Straits / Alchemy - Dire Straits Live Part One

Used drive : _NEC DVD_RW ND-3540A Adapter: 1 ID: 0
Read mode : Secure with C2, accurate stream, NO disable cache
Read offset correction : 48
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface


Track 5
Filename D:\MP3 nog uitzoeken\Posten\Dire Straits - 05 - Private Investigations.wav

Peak level 89.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 4FFB6246
Copy CRC 4FFB6246
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

------------------------------------------------------------

EAC extraction logfile from 9. September 2006, 2:02 for CD
Dire Straits / Alchemy - Dire Straits Live Part One

Used drive : HL-DT-STDVD-ROM GDR8161B Adapter: 2 ID: 0
Read mode : Burst
Read offset correction : 102
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface


Track 5
Filename G:\TEMP\alchemy\Dire Straits - 05 - Private Investigations.wav

Peak level 89.1 %
Test CRC B35EA6F3
Copy CRC B35EA6F3
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

------------------------------------------------------------

EAC extraction logfile from 9. September 2006, 2:04 for CD
Dire Straits / Alchemy - Dire Straits Live Part One

Used drive : HL-DT-STDVD-ROM GDR8161B Adapter: 2 ID: 0
Read mode : Secure with C2, accurate stream, disable cache
Read offset correction : 102
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface


Track 5
Filename G:\TEMP\alchemy\Dire Straits - 05 - Private Investigations.wav

Peak level 89.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC B35EA6F3
Copy CRC B35EA6F3
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

EDIT: BTW, according to AccurateRip (which has several submissions for this exact pressing of this disc) none of the above attempts was accurate.

This post has been edited by greynol: Oct 16 2006, 06:17


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Posts in this topic
- EagleScout1998   Different schools of thought regarding EAC   Oct 15 2006, 04:31
- - lextune   It is true that Andre uses Burst+T&C. and only...   Oct 15 2006, 04:45
- - Martin H   Burst mode + Test & Copy is just as secure as ...   Oct 15 2006, 05:03
- - gaillard   Or you can use Spoons new R12 ripper that addresse...   Oct 15 2006, 06:08
|- - Eli   QUOTE (gaillard @ Oct 15 2006, 01:08) Or ...   Oct 16 2006, 02:29
- - Firon   I use burst T&C because I consider it to be ju...   Oct 15 2006, 20:50
- - satorippoi   All this (Burst+T&C) makes sense only if you r...   Oct 15 2006, 22:01
- - dv1989   Why is that? Andre has not yet implemented T...   Oct 15 2006, 22:08
- - greynol   It's all simply a means to an end. Matching C...   Oct 15 2006, 22:15
|- - evereux   QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 15 2006, 22:15) In t...   Oct 15 2006, 22:39
- - funkyblue   QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 16 2006, 06:15) It...   Oct 16 2006, 00:59
|- - greynol   QUOTE (funkyblue @ Oct 15 2006, 16:59) I ...   Oct 16 2006, 05:30
- - funkyblue   Yes, and it will also cost money!   Oct 16 2006, 02:31
|- - Eli   QUOTE (funkyblue @ Oct 15 2006, 21:31) Ye...   Oct 16 2006, 16:36
- - gaillard   I hope it won't. It would be nice if he earns...   Oct 16 2006, 07:30
- - spoon   QUOTE I would say it's near IMPOSSIBLE at such...   Oct 16 2006, 08:30
|- - greynol   What's even more discouraging is that in my ab...   Oct 16 2006, 08:33
|- - JeanLuc   QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 16 2006, 07:33) What...   Oct 16 2006, 19:12
- - spoon   It was odd how the CRCs matched then the rip later...   Oct 16 2006, 09:41
- - Be Positive   So Test&Copy in Burst mode is not recommentabl...   Oct 16 2006, 18:47
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Be Positive @ Oct 16 2006, 10:47) ...   Oct 16 2006, 19:24
|- - EagleScout1998   QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 16 2006, 13:24) but ...   Oct 17 2006, 00:55
|- - greynol   QUOTE (EagleScout1998 @ Oct 16 2006, 16:5...   Oct 17 2006, 01:57
- - gaillard   you can find 708a's pretty cheap... and grey ...   Oct 17 2006, 01:13


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