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WMA Lossless burning sofware
jagwap
post Sep 7 2006, 10:53
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I have ripped my entire collection in Windows Media Lossless. I'm sure there will be pleanty of opinions here on that, but it's done now, and I don't fancy doing it again. I would like to know which CD burning software people recommend which can take and convert WMA lossless to wav and then burn without manually converting? Windows Media Player 10/11 beta and itunes all put gaps between the tracks, which is annoying as hell (why do people put up with this on ipods, itunes etc? blink.gif Zero second crossfade doesn't work seamlessly). I found one shareware one, but the user interface was nasty. I the burning software I have doesn't convert WMA lossless so I currently convert it in itunes (because wmp adds gaps when converting!), then burn.

The Nero and Roxio bunch claim wma conversion on their websites, but are not specific about the lossless format.
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Egor
post Sep 7 2006, 11:29
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Foobar2000 can decode WMA Lossless and then burn it with a plugin and Nero 6 or 7. I am not sure about gapless burning though (and it also depends on how WMP rips CDDA).

Edit. Roxio EMC8 also can burn Audio CD from WMA Lossless.

This post has been edited by Egor: Sep 7 2006, 11:37
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jagwap
post Sep 7 2006, 11:38
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The ripping process doesn't appear to add the gaps, just the burn bit of wmp and itunes.

What you describe sounds like a two process operation. Is it case of pressing go, and the CD is burnt?
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Junon
post Sep 7 2006, 12:24
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QUOTE (jagwap @ Sep 7 2006, 11:53) *
The Nero and Roxio bunch claim wma conversion on their websites, but are not specific about the lossless format.


The Nero version I use, Nero 6 Reloaded, reads the lossless files without causing issues, meaning it's possible burning them to an audio CD in a one process operation. I just burnt an image outta a few WMA Lossless 9.2 files, almost everything worked as intended. "Almost" because I was unable to find an option to successfully remove gaps between the tracks. "Remove pause at the end of audio tracks" had been checked before starting the burning process, but that didn't help at all.

Edit: Added the Nero version used for burning.

This post has been edited by Junon: Sep 7 2006, 12:26
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jagwap
post Sep 7 2006, 13:26
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I think I remember that I read the gaps may be at the beginning. wmp does not play the gaps on playback, but adds them on conversion. itunes doesn't add them on conversion, but adds them on burning. So using itunes converted files and burning them works, but it's a pain.

Does Nero have "disk at once", and does that solve it?

Why do major companies think that these gaps are acceptable? If the burning software is doing it for some legal copyright deterant I can kind of understand it, but every ipod does it in playback, and those files are trapped and "uncopiable". Still it must be just me, as they seem to have sold a few...
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jimmy69
post Sep 7 2006, 14:10
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itunes can burn without puting gaps in. Just go to preferences, click on the advanced tab, then burn tab, and choose none for the gap between songs option.

I burn with nero 6 and it doesn't enter gaps either.
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smz
post Sep 7 2006, 14:20
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QUOTE (Junon @ Sep 7 2006, 13:24) *
... I was unable to find an option to successfully remove gaps between the tracks. "Remove pause at the end of audio tracks" had been checked before starting the burning process, but that didn't help at all.


I think the issue you have is an old one. A very bad habit of Nero which by default inserts 2 seconds gaps between tracks. To solve this issue, just select all of your tracks in the Nero compilation, right click and select "Properties" (or press Alt+Enter) and put 0 (zero) in the "Pause" field. Unhapply Nero doesn't remember your wishes for the next compilation. You always have to remeber to fix its habits (sh.t!)

Sergio


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Alex B
post Sep 7 2006, 14:29
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QUOTE (jagwap @ Sep 7 2006, 12:53) *
I have ripped my entire collection in Windows Media Lossless. I'm sure there will be pleanty of opinions here on that, but it's done now, and I don't fancy doing it again. I would like to know which CD burning software people recommend which can take and convert WMA lossless to wav and then burn without manually converting? Windows Media Player 10/11 beta and itunes all put gaps between the tracks, which is annoying as hell (why do people put up with this on ipods, itunes etc? blink.gif Zero second crossfade doesn't work seamlessly). I found one shareware one, but the user interface was nasty. I the burning software I have doesn't convert WMA lossless so I currently convert it in itunes (because wmp adds gaps when converting!), then burn.

The Nero and Roxio bunch claim wma conversion on their websites, but are not specific about the lossless format.

J. River Media Center is a good program for WMA lossless users. It has a secure ripper that can rip directly to WMA lossless. It can play and burn WMA lossless files gaplessly straight from its media library without any intermediate conversion steps. Also, it supports native WMA tagging, album art inside WMA tags and the external "folder.jpg" system too. (JRMC is commercial. It has a 30 day try-out period with full features.)


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jagwap
post Sep 7 2006, 14:36
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QUOTE (jimmy69 @ Sep 7 2006, 14:10) *
itunes can burn without puting gaps in. Just go to preferences, click on the advanced tab, then burn tab, and choose none for the gap between songs option.

I burn with nero 6 and it doesn't enter gaps either.


I did set that, and there are still gaps.
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jimmy69
post Sep 7 2006, 15:28
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WTF. I just burnt some wma lossless songs with nero to see if gaps were put in but they turned out fine. Could the gaps have been added during the ripping process.

This post has been edited by jimmy69: Sep 7 2006, 15:29
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grommet
post Sep 7 2006, 17:02
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I just did a test and I verified there is no additional silence introduced. So, jagwap, what is the length of what you call a gap? (In other words, define "gap.")

This post has been edited by grommet: Sep 7 2006, 17:04
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jagwap
post Sep 7 2006, 17:15
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QUOTE (jimmy69 @ Sep 7 2006, 15:28) *
WTF. I just burnt some wma lossless songs with nero to see if gaps were put in but they turned out fine. Could the gaps have been added during the ripping process.


So Nero may work, as long as the gaps aren't added during the ripping process. I don't think they are, or the itunes wmal to wav conversion would have gaps when burn by the roxio based freebie that came with the PC. This is another reason I'm confused as to why itunes then puts gaps in on the burn.

I ripped the music on wmp10.
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greynol
post Sep 7 2006, 18:21
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QUOTE (jagwap @ Sep 7 2006, 09:15) *
I ripped the music on wmp10.

I was going to ask this question.

Earlier you had mentioned that there were going to be opinions about ripping to wma lossless. Personally this doesn't bother me whatsoever. Using wmp10 to rip, on the other hand, is a totally different story. If your discs aren't in better-than-good condition, you'll certainly have ripping errors. Hopefully they aren't audible.

This post has been edited by greynol: Sep 7 2006, 18:22


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jagwap
post Sep 8 2006, 07:28
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QUOTE (grommet @ Sep 7 2006, 17:02) *
I just did a test and I verified there is no additional silence introduced. So, jagwap, what is the length of what you call a gap? (In other words, define "gap.")


A gap is a is anything from a glitch to a 1/2 second silence, like you get when playing back on itunes. For the itunes thing there's advice to get around that by setting crossfade on, and setting the crossfade to zero. That doesn't work as there is a discontinuity. What I'm after is for the album to sound like it did on the original. Many albums have leadouts and lead ins between tracks, or the crowd noise between tracks, and I want to be able to burn these to be as seamleas as the original, without fishing the original out of a box in the attic.

QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 7 2006, 18:21) *
QUOTE (jagwap @ Sep 7 2006, 09:15) *
I ripped the music on wmp10.

I was going to ask this question.

Earlier you had mentioned that there were going to be opinions about ripping to wma lossless. Personally this doesn't bother me whatsoever. Using wmp10 to rip, on the other hand, is a totally different story. If your discs aren't in better-than-good condition, you'll certainly have ripping errors. Hopefully they aren't audible.


Where is the evidence for this, and how can I check (checksum) the results? I heard about the exact ripping thingy when I'd done about 90% of my albums.
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greynol
post Sep 8 2006, 07:32
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It's sounding like you're trying to play music from files rather than from CD-R. Is this the case?

QUOTE (jagwap @ Sep 7 2006, 09:15) *
Where is the evidence for this, and how can I check (checksum) the results? I heard about the exact ripping thingy when I'd done about 90% of my albums.

That's the problem with wmp10, there is no way to know during the process. So long as you don't hear anything wrong and don't mind knowing that there could be an error, I wouldn't worry about it.

EDIT: Ok, looking back over the thread it's clear that you're talking about playing music from CD-R. There are many reasons why you might have additional unwanted gaps between tracks, though I can't think of any reason why it would be as large as half a second other than a full (and exact) two seconds.

This post has been edited by greynol: Sep 8 2006, 07:38


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grommet
post Sep 8 2006, 08:14
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I ripped two tracks with WMP from a CD that has tracks blend together. I opened the WMA files in an audio editor and verified no noise or silence is introduced between them. You might want to do something similar to verify your source files don't have the noise/gap you are hearing before chasing a problem with your burning solution.

Just a FYI... you can enable basic error correction for rippng in WMP 10/11. Enable it via WMP's Tools... Options... Devices... Properties. It's probably not necessary in most cases (undamaged discs) with modern CD/DVD mechanisms. Anyway, it's there...

This post has been edited by grommet: Sep 8 2006, 09:33
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smz
post Sep 8 2006, 09:07
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jagwap, do you have this problem with all of your ripped CDs or just with some of them? Couldn't it be that the short gaps you hear are already in the "original" CDs, because they are copies made from mp3 "originals"? That would make sense...

Sergio


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jagwap
post Sep 8 2006, 09:32
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QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 8 2006, 07:32) *
It's sounding like you're trying to play music from files rather than from CD-R. Is this the case?

QUOTE (jagwap @ Sep 7 2006, 09:15) *
Where is the evidence for this, and how can I check (checksum) the results? I heard about the exact ripping thingy when I'd done about 90% of my albums.

That's the problem with wmp10, there is no way to know during the process. So long as you don't hear anything wrong and don't mind knowing that there could be an error, I wouldn't worry about it.

EDIT: Ok, looking back over the thread it's clear that you're talking about playing music from CD-R. There are many reasons why you might have additional unwanted gaps between tracks, though I can't think of any reason why it would be as large as half a second other than a full (and exact) two seconds.


No, I'm talking about burning a CD of an album from my music stored as wma lossless on my hard drive. I want the burn CD to sound like the original, i.e. no extra gaps, glitches, or artificial crossfades.

QUOTE (smz @ Sep 8 2006, 09:07) *
jagwap, do you have this problem with all of your ripped CDs or just with some of them? Couldn't it be that the short gaps you hear are already in the "original" CDs, because they are copies made from mp3 "originals"? That would make sense...

Sergio


No, the gaps are put there by wmp when you burn a CD. It's on the microsft site that it does this and they suggest using anothew writer which has burn "disk at once" feature. I am asking which software has this AND can do it directly from wma lossless files.
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Alex B
post Sep 8 2006, 12:40
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QUOTE (jagwap @ Sep 8 2006, 11:32) *
... I am asking which software has this AND can do it directly from wma lossless files.

And I gave you the answer. smile.gif

You really should try the JRMC trial. You may be surprised. Don't hesitate to ask for help at their forum if you need any.


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