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Ogg, lack of a decoder standard?, Lack of car stereo support.
SHADES
post Aug 24 2006, 04:35
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I wasn't sure I read this right. There are claims about OGG not being adopted by car radio manufactures etc because of a lack of a standard in decoding algos.
http://ilx.wh3rd.net/thread.php?msgid=3218698

is this bull dust?

I'd like to know if there are larger manufactures that make OGG compatible car stereos. Like Kenwood, Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Blaupunkt, Pioneer etc...

I want to support OGG.

This post has been edited by SHADES: Aug 24 2006, 04:37
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saratoga
post Aug 24 2006, 04:41
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QUOTE (SHADES @ Aug 23 2006, 20:35) *
I wasn't sure I read this right. There are claims about OGG not being adopted by car radio manufactures etc because of a lack of a standard in decoding algos.
http://ilx.wh3rd.net/thread.php?msgid=3218698

is this bull dust?

I'd like to know if there are larger manufactures that make OGG compatible car stereos. Like Kenwood, Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Blaupunkt, Pioneer etc...

I want to support OGG.


It might have been true back then. I really have no idea what the state of embedded vorbis decoders was like 3.5 years ago. Now its not though. There are free embedded decoders for ARM, 68k, and probably other platforms too.
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kjoonlee
post Aug 24 2006, 05:16
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A lot of the lies and mistakes in that post can be refuted by simply reading the Ogg Vorbis FAQ.

http://www.vorbis.com/faq/

The spec was in place since at least July 2002.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020802141437/...orbis/docs.html

And we all know that join-stereo is not worse than "pure" stereo. wink.gif

QUOTE (SHADES @ Aug 24 2006, 12:35) *
I'd like to know if there are larger manufactures that make OGG compatible car stereos. Like Kenwood, Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Blaupunkt, Pioneer etc...

Kenwood Audiokeg used to support Vorbis, IIRC, but I'm not sure.


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vinnie97
post Aug 24 2006, 05:34
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JVC has undocumented support in current models via the USB connections. Do a search here for posts by myself about this unit.

Insignia (Best Buy's in-house brand) also uses a chip that supports Vorbis via USB.

There may be more undocumented head units that support the file format.

This post has been edited by vinnie97: Aug 24 2006, 05:35
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iGold
post Aug 24 2006, 05:50
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I was really impressed when ogg vorbis plays in my DVD player Pioneer 585A. But it plays like movie w/o video, not as mp3 in audio mode wink.gif
But there is no any info about ogg (audio or video) support in spec, so it's possible more players silently support ogg then we know.

This post has been edited by iGold: Aug 24 2006, 05:51
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pepoluan
post Aug 24 2006, 05:50
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Annnnddd if we can believe this posting, there will be head units that can play Ogg Vorbis but can't play MP3.


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audiomars
post Aug 25 2006, 09:55
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QUOTE (pepoluan @ Aug 24 2006, 10:20) *
Annnnddd if we can believe this posting, there will be head units that can play Ogg Vorbis but can't play MP3.


Hmmm, interesting indeed!!


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pepoluan
post Aug 25 2006, 12:40
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QUOTE (audiomars @ Aug 25 2006, 15:55) *
QUOTE (pepoluan @ Aug 24 2006, 10:20) *

Annnnddd if we can believe this posting, there will be head units that can play Ogg Vorbis but can't play MP3.


Hmmm, interesting indeed!!

This guy's last posting here is even more incredible... he/she claimed that SanDisk/Sansa is also having MP3-licensing problems.

Could this be... the dawn of the Age of Ogg Vorbis? w00t.gif

Edit: Stupid Tyopes™

This post has been edited by pepoluan: Aug 25 2006, 12:42


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audiomars
post Aug 25 2006, 14:36
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QUOTE (pepoluan @ Aug 25 2006, 17:10) *
This guy's last posting here is even more incredible... he/she claimed that SanDisk/Sansa is also having MP3-licensing problems.

Could this be... the dawn of the Age of Ogg Vorbis? w00t.gif


If it's true, maybe it would be a blessing in disguise (at least for Ogg Vorbis). Hopefully, proper support for Ogg files....

audiomars


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ImAlive
post Sep 7 2006, 19:20
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In Germany, at the IFA consumer equipment show, some manufacturer's DAPs were confiscated because of MP3 licensing issues blink.gif The Age of Vorbis indeed cool.gif
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de Mon
post Sep 7 2006, 20:47
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There were rumours that the last VW Golf's standard CD player supports Ogg Vorbis. Can anybody confirm or deny this. If it supports Ogg Vorbis who manufactures the device (Blaupunkt?)


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PatchWorKs
post Sep 8 2006, 00:26
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QUOTE
SHADES
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Uhm... 12 posts in 4 years... seems that you don't use this forum so mutch. Just a notice: here we have a useful 'search' button.

Anyway, check this out. Many manufacturers seems scared (or simply they don't know ?) to claim Vorbis compatibility for their players...

This post has been edited by PatchWorKs: Sep 8 2006, 00:26
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psycho
post Sep 8 2006, 10:13
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QUOTE (iGold @ Aug 24 2006, 06:50) *
I was really impressed when ogg vorbis plays in my DVD player Pioneer 585A. But it plays like movie w/o video, not as mp3 in audio mode wink.gif
But there is no any info about ogg (audio or video) support in spec, so it's possible more players silently support ogg then we know.


My guess is that your DVD player supports OGMs -> xvid + ogg. That's why it plays your oggs as if they were a part of video. Like I said... just a guess.


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LANjackal
post Sep 9 2006, 06:50
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QUOTE (PatchWorKs @ Sep 7 2006, 19:26) *
Anyway, check this out. Many manufacturers seems scared (or simply they don't know ?) to claim Vorbis compatibility for their players...


They could be afraid that supporting OGG may require open source code, which could lead to a host of problems when included in proprietary firmware. Not that this is actually the case, but it may be what they fear. It happened to Linksys - they were forced to reveal the sourcecode for the firmware of one of their routers because of some GPL licensing conflict. They haven't repeated that with later models.

Just offering a possible reason


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PatchWorKs
post Sep 9 2006, 08:07
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QUOTE (LANjackal @ Sep 9 2006, 07:50) *
They could be afraid that supporting OGG may require open source code, which could lead to a host of problems when included in proprietary firmware.

Even worst: why are they so code "possessive" ? They manufacture hardware, not software ! dry.gif
In my opinion open source firmwares could spread the compatibility of *every* hardware ! blink.gif

I'm tempted to launch a "firmware & drivers liberation campign"... huh.gif

This post has been edited by PatchWorKs: Sep 11 2006, 21:03
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pepoluan
post Sep 9 2006, 08:14
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QUOTE (ImAlive @ Sep 8 2006, 01:20) *
In Germany, at the IFA consumer equipment show, some manufacturer's DAPs were confiscated because of MP3 licensing issues blink.gif The Age of Vorbis indeed cool.gif
Whoa... ohmy.gif


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HbG
post Sep 9 2006, 22:16
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Actually, a judge has now ruled that sandisk probably did not violate any patents with their player, and the patent in question was about "playback technology", whatever that is. See http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/08/sandisk...-ifa-overturned

Vorbis has commercial decoders for embedded applications, possibly covered by patents, and if anyone were to use that without a license, those products could be seized also.


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saratoga
post Sep 9 2006, 22:56
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QUOTE (HbG @ Sep 9 2006, 14:16) *
Actually, a judge has now ruled that sandisk probably did not violate any patents with their player, and the patent in question was about "playback technology", whatever that is. See http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/08/sandisk...-ifa-overturned


No a judge said they could display their products. The lawsuit is just beginning.

QUOTE (HbG @ Sep 9 2006, 14:16) *
Vorbis has commercial decoders for embedded applications, possibly covered by patents, and if anyone were to use that without a license, those products could be seized also.


What are you talking about?
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HbG
post Sep 9 2006, 23:18
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QUOTE (Mike Giacomelli @ Sep 9 2006, 23:56) *
No a judge said they could display their products. The lawsuit is just beginning.

Oops, my bad.

QUOTE (Mike Giacomelli @ Sep 9 2006, 23:56) *
What are you talking about?

http://www.vinjey.com/ogg.html (vinjey of bitrate-peeler fame)

Suppose a vorbis supporting DAP would illegally use vinjey's lincensed implementation, it could be seized and faced with a lawsuit also. What happened to sandisk's player would also be possible with an open-source format like vorbis.


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Firon
post Sep 10 2006, 04:23
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They're not covered by patent, but if someone were to use Vinjey's decoder without paying (how they'd get it in the first place without paying is another matter...), then yes, their players could get seized.

This post has been edited by Firon: Sep 10 2006, 04:24
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