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Secure Ripper Test (part 2 concise results), dBpowerAMP R12 new Secure Ripper
spoon
post Aug 14 2006, 22:26
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We have compiled a page with full results of dBpowerAMPs new secure ripping method and how it compares with EAC:

http://www.dbpoweramp.com/secure-ripper.htm

If your interest is secure ripping, try dBpowerAMPs R12 secure ripper and report your results:

http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=9739


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Eli
post Aug 19 2006, 20:05
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can dMC be configured as to what consitutes an AccurateRip match? Is a match of 1 good enough for dMC to stop the ripping process? I would like to be able to configure this option personaly.

BTW, the ripper is working wonderfully Spoon. Im sure its going to replace EAC, especially with AMG metadata support.


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Radetzky
post Aug 19 2006, 22:15
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Is R12 released or is this just more propaganda? wink.gif

Latest news on dbpoweramp.com is about m4a codec pack.
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arpeggio
post Aug 19 2006, 22:28
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QUOTE (Radetzky @ Aug 19 2006, 23:15) *
Is R12 released or is this just more propaganda? wink.gif

It is not officially released yet, dMC r12 is available in alpha-version. Just follow this link that Spoon provided in post #1 of this thread.
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greynol
post Aug 19 2006, 23:36
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My initial tests give me mixed results when compared to EAC with my various drives.

One thing I can say is that it can't touch the performance that I get from Plextools with my PX-716A with the discs I have tested that are defective enough to give errors but not too much that an accurate rip isn't possible. It seems that EAC does a better job with this drive also.

I have a rebadged Plextor that EAC does not report as providing C2 information yet R12 says it does though using it gives bad results. I have another drive that provides C2 pointers to EAC but gives in returns an error when checking the option in R12.

If I could get a detailed explanation of how Ultra Secure Ripping and the various options work, I may be able to perform more efficient tests.

EDIT: I think the performance of R12a4 is very encouraging. Also, I'd like to know exactly what the program is doing when dealing with bad frames.

This post has been edited by greynol: Aug 20 2006, 01:21


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Eli
post Aug 20 2006, 00:03
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It may be worth sending/selling these discs to spoon for further dev if he is interested.


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Sebastian Mares
post Aug 20 2006, 08:48
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QUOTE (greynol @ Aug 20 2006, 00:36) *
EDIT: I think the performance of R12a4 is very encouraging. Also, I'd like to know exactly what the program is doing when dealing with bad frames.


http://www.dbpoweramp.com/secure-ripper.htm


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greynol
post Aug 20 2006, 18:44
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QUOTE (Sebastian Mares @ Aug 20 2006, 00:48) *
QUOTE (greynol @ Aug 20 2006, 00:36) *

EDIT: I think the performance of R12a4 is very encouraging. Also, I'd like to know exactly what the program is doing when dealing with bad frames.


http://www.dbpoweramp.com/secure-ripper.htm

XX (user configurable) tries on bad frames or until 10 match. smile.gif


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spoon
post Aug 27 2006, 11:01
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Sorry for the delay I was away.

The re-ripping of bad frames should be the same in EAC as dbpoweramp, and even plextor - there is only one show stopper there and that is the CD cache - you have it configured correctly?

Unlike EAC with dBpowerAMP R12 if the drive supports c2 pointers then have the c2 pointer option checked, it will help identify bad frames. If your drive has a good c2 implementation and you are happy with it then have no ultra passes (it will be just like plextools then), for a poor c2 implemented drive have atleast 2 ultra passes.

What settings are you using?


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gaillard
post Aug 28 2006, 01:30
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there are not any differences in r12 and eac when using accuraterip without c2 correction right??

based on the flowcharts they seem to be doing the same thing or am i missing something?
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gaillard
post Aug 28 2006, 03:19
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hey spoon I have what appears to be a qsi bw242u cdrw/dvd drive in my dell 5150 inspiron laptop and eac detecs c2 error correction and i havn't been able to get R12 to detect it at all. Does anyone know if theres a sure fire way to test or find this information out? thanks.
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smiler
post Aug 28 2006, 08:44
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Hey Spoon,

The AccurateRip results look very promising. My concern, however, is what does dMC do with regard to gap detection and what is in the gaps? Half my reasoning for using EAC is I can get a perfect copy of a CD in FLAC, including all the gaps between tracks: can dMC do this too?

Thanks,
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spoon
post Aug 28 2006, 13:16
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gaillard

>based on the flowcharts they seem to be doing the same thing or am i missing something?

They are fundamentally different, in that dBpowerAMP works on complete passes where EAC works on small chunks.

If a drive supports C2 then you need a CD with scratches and a c2 error pointer should be flagged when doing the test. Your windows log on needs admin rights to read c2 from the cd drive.

smiler

Every CD ripper includes the gaps, that is how they work, you need special code to detect and remove the gaps.


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gaillard
post Aug 28 2006, 14:04
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Is there any reason eac, cdspeed, and nero info detect c2 from the same cd but R12 doesn't? does that mean if i were to rip that cd with r12 it isn't using c2 correction (anyway to test that?)

Also spoon i posted on your forums about the wavpack command line in r12. I can't get it to work with "-h - [outfile]"
"-h [infile] [outfile]" rips and encodes to 99% and then freezes. wavpack_debug just says the three arguments like this.

arg 1: -h
arg 2: C:\DOCUME~1\JONATH~1\Desktop\SARAHB~1\SARAHB~3.WAV
arg 3: C:\DOCUME~1\JONATH~1\Desktop\SARAHB~1\SARAHB~1.WV

thanks spoon, your a great help

This post has been edited by gaillard: Aug 28 2006, 14:57
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gaillard
post Aug 28 2006, 17:28
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QUOTE (Eli @ Aug 19 2006, 15:05) *
can dMC be configured as to what consitutes an AccurateRip match? Is a match of 1 good enough for dMC to stop the ripping process?


I would love the answer to this question too if you don't mind spoon. I believe in your specs you said a confidence of 5 could be a good start but what is the program set on?
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gmB
post Aug 28 2006, 18:08
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Is it possible to rip the CD as an image+cue? I think AccurateRip doesn't support it.
I have all my CDs as images+cue and would like to keep it that way, though.
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spoon
post Aug 28 2006, 19:59
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Wavpack command line is:

-i -y -w "artist=[artist]" -w "title=[title]" -w "genre=[genre]" -w "album=[album]" -w "year=[year]" -w "track=[track]" - [outfile]

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Images are currently not supported, but when they are they will work with AccurateRip.
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Currently ripping will finish with a single confidence match with AccurateRip (unless C2 pointers are enabled and there is a C2 error)

>qsi bw242u cdrw/dvd

You know I hate that drive wink.gif it is purged from AccurateRip for having different offsets with either firmware versions or drive revisions.

About C2, dBpowerAMP uses a cd read call using MSF rather than LBA, it could be the firmware of that drive does not support c2 and MSF addressing.


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gaillard
post Aug 28 2006, 22:30
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hey spoon,

I just updated the firmware to u27 from u25 on that qsi 242 drive and now pretty much every cd the program reads just says can't read cd. But it will now detect c2....

do i just need a new drive?
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spoon
post Aug 29 2006, 14:09
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Take a big hammer...wink.gif


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gaillard
post Aug 30 2006, 13:47
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If I get the plexor 230A (any reason i shouldn't? or better for that price range?) will it give that error the same as my qsi 242 does now? that the cd can't be read. I understand if it finds the errors, and i want it to if there are there but shouldn't it still be able to read all cd's???
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gaillard
post Aug 30 2006, 19:44
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ok i got the plexor 708a dvd drive for this new software. I don't see why people on hydrogenaudio are not making a bigger deal of this. With Eac, if there is an error on the disk that repeats on the re-reads then your files will have errors in them! and if you enable c2 with eac then its soley reliant on c2. This software will use c2 and then re-reads for things that c2 misses. Thats as good as it gets right?

maybe there is just something i don't know...
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greynol
post Aug 31 2006, 17:01
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QUOTE (gaillard @ Aug 30 2006, 11:44) *
With Eac, if there is an error on the disk that repeats on the re-reads then your files will have errors in them! and if you enable c2 with eac then its soley reliant on c2. This software will use c2 and then re-reads for things that c2 misses.

If EAC detects the error from a C2 pointer and the error is consistent (it repeats), your file is still going to have an error because C2 is not used during re-reads.

If EAC's using C2 pointers and an error is missed it will be passed along since no re-reads will take place since EAC's detection of errors is, like you said, solely reliant on C2 pointers.

EDIT: Anyway, this topic is about dBpowerAMP not EAC. To steer this portion of the discussion back on topic, it seems as though spoon's ripper has "Advanced code to detect when drive is interpolating and hiding errors." Does this mean that it also has some immunity to consistent errors that EAC doesn't have? It seems as though EAC has no immunity.

This post has been edited by greynol: Aug 31 2006, 17:13


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gaillard
post Sep 2 2006, 02:29
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well just the fact that this ripper uses re-reads even if c2 doesn't report an error is a dramatic improvement.

I think i read in his technology preview that it said it also used c2 IN the re-reads as well...

As far as i know c2 is the protection against consistent errors and re-reads is the protection against inconsistant, which is why it makes sense to me to use them both whereas plextor tools and eac don't... correct me if i am wrong spoon about c2 erros mostly being consistant.
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spoon
post Sep 2 2006, 12:20
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Think about the worst case of c2 (in its usage in dBpowerAMP, EAC is different), perhaps you have a case where c2 is reporting an error which is not there - dbpoweramp will go through the process of re-ripping (that sector) around 40 times, if the CD is in accuraterip it will verify correctly at the end.

If a error slips past c2 undetected the re-read (programmable times) will hopefully pick it up.

so yes, this implementation of c2 is designed to be as good as it gets.

This post has been edited by spoon: Sep 2 2006, 20:02


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greynol
post Sep 2 2006, 18:02
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QUOTE (gaillard @ Sep 1 2006, 18:29) *
I think i read in his technology preview that it said it also used c2 IN the re-reads as well...
C2 is not used during re-reads with EAC.
QUOTE (gaillard @ Sep 1 2006, 18:29) *
As far as i know c2 is the protection against consistent errors and re-reads is the protection against inconsistant, which is why it makes sense to me to use them both whereas plextor tools and eac don't...
A C2 pointer may spot an inconsistent error but upon re-reads, EAC will likely consider the consistent error good.

Again, EAC offers very little (if any) immunity to consistent errors. This is one instance where spoon's new ripper has the opportunity to offer some significant improvement.


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