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Finding a lossless format for itunes and windows media player
vetinry
post Jul 16 2006, 10:03
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Good morning

I am having a very frustrating time trying to find a suitable audio format that I can use in my home network and hope that someone may have a solution.

As an ipod user, I ripped my entire CD collection (500 ish) to the apple lossless (ALAC) format using EAC and itunes encode. I use my ipod in the car as a CD changer, and I purchased a couple of Slim Devices Squeezebox 2's to stream music in the house.

SQ is more important than file size and this is why I chose a lossless format.

I have now recently built myself a Home Theatre PC running Windows Media Center - its main purpose is to house all of my media files (TV, audio and pictures) in one place. It is connected to the screen in the kitchen, and I am going to buy an Xbox 360 to act as media center extender in the lounge. Since the Xbox will only be able to retrieve media files through Windows Media Center, I would like to find a format that will allow me to do this, and therefore not need a separate squeezebox.

I have read a little about the incompatability between itunes and WMP, but it seems that both can play WAV flies, which although disc space hungry, would be acceptable.

This is where the problem starts - I've tried ripping WAV files in iTunes, in WMP, and in EAC but there doesn't appear to be consistency between the folder types.

The ability to capture Album artwork etc through WMP is appealing, particularly when using media center, but although using these different methods is recognised by the different programmes, the file structures which are so important for searching disappear.

Is there a method of ripping WAV files so that they can be viewed in correct folder structures by both itunes and windows media player?

Any help as always would be gratefully received.

Best wishes

Steve
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vetinry
post Jul 16 2006, 19:49
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Thanks

I think I'm getting the gist of what you're saying now.

Will have to have a bit of a think

Best wishes

Steve
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John Lockwood
post Oct 11 2006, 17:19
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QUOTE (vetinry @ Jul 16 2006, 19:49) *
Thanks

I think I'm getting the gist of what you're saying now.

Will have to have a bit of a think

Best wishes

Steve


I too also wanted to share my music between iTunes (to provide iPod and Mac compatibility) and WMP (to provide MCE 2005 compatibility). I also wanted to go further and include compatibility with the Roku SoundBridge M2000 and future proof it so that if/when I get a Sonos Zone Player that is also supported.

Initially I had thought AIFF was the way to go since it is fully support by iTunes, iPod, SoundBridge and Sonos Zone Player. I also knew that WMP could play it. Unfortunately I then discovered that WMP while it has a built-in codec to play AIFF does not have the ability to read iTunes tags for AIFF files, nor is there any plugin for WMP (currently) to address this. I had instantly discounted WAV as it does not support tags and embedded album art (for iTunes and iPod).

I then considered AAC and proved it would work with everything (by using a plugin for WMP to read the tags and an AAC codec) but this was a lossey format.

More recently the SoundBridge firmware was upgraded and FireFly server released which meant the SoundBridge could now play Apple Lossless (iTunes, iPod and Sonos Zone Player already supported Apple Loessless). As Apple Lossless uses the same MPEG4 file format and tag format as AAC this meant WMP could already read the tags for Apple Lossless via the same plugin. This drove me to look for a way to get the final missing piece an Apple Lossless codec for WMP.

As has been mentioned in this thread, in theory ffmpeg is supposed to now support ALAC (Apple Lossless) but it never worked for me. I then started googling like mad to find ALAC solutions for Windows, other than a reference to ffmpeg and solutions for winamp and foobar (which were of no use to getting it working in WMP and MCE) I eventually came across mention of the BASS audio library for Windows (see http://www.un4seen.com/bass.html ). This library has modules available for various audio formats including ALAC and AAC and the source code for those particular modules is freely available. BASS does not itself integrate with WMP and I am not a Windows programmer so I was not quite there yet. I then found another developer had already taken the BASS library and an MP3 plugin and wrapped it all together as a directshow filter WHICH WORKS IN WMP! Wow! I thought, if only I could get him to do the same thing by taking the BASS library and the source for the BASS ALAC module and wrap that together as a directshow filter!

Ta da!

He did indeed manage to do this for me and after he fixed a small bug I now have ALL my iTunes library in Apple Lossless format and I can play it in iTunes, WMP, MCE 2005, SoftSqueeze (via SlimServer), Roku SoundBridge (via Firefly server) and if I had them it would also be possible with an iPod, SlimDevices Squeezebox (via SlimServer), Sonos Zone Player, EVEN AN XBOX 360 ACTING AS A MEDIA EXTENDER (via MCE 2005).

In other-words, I have achieved the impossible and I have a universal lossless music format supported by EVERYTHING all linked to single copies of each track.

I have even got artwork working in both iTunes and WMP and MCE (although that requires some manual intervention).

I even asked Apple to add support for the "Album Artist" tag to make it easier to integrate with WMP and they added that in iTunes 7. (This works thanks to SoftPointer's Tag Extender Plugin for WMP, currently WMPTSE a very similar plugin is having problems reading iTunes tags.)

Note: I use iTunes to rip CDs and I tell WMP to not copy or move or change the files but to merely add them to its library. As a result iTunes and WMP share the same single copies of files.
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Posts in this topic
- vetinry   Finding a lossless format for itunes and windows media player   Jul 16 2006, 10:03
- - chelgrian   QUOTE (vetinry @ Jul 16 2006, 10:03) This...   Jul 16 2006, 13:50
|- - LANjackal   QUOTE (chelgrian @ Jul 16 2006, 08:50) 3)...   Oct 11 2006, 17:31
|- - EuMesmo   QUOTE (chelgrian @ Jul 16 2006, 09:50) Fi...   Nov 11 2006, 23:06
|- - goodnews   I see 2 main things needed to help FLAC to better ...   Nov 11 2006, 23:33
|- - John Lockwood   QUOTE (EuMesmo @ Nov 11 2006, 23:06) QUOT...   Nov 11 2006, 23:48
||- - jcoalson   QUOTE (John Lockwood @ Nov 11 2006, 17:48...   Nov 12 2006, 00:07
||- - EuMesmo   QUOTE (John Lockwood @ Nov 11 2006, 19:48...   Nov 12 2006, 00:30
||- - John Lockwood   QUOTE (EuMesmo @ Nov 12 2006, 00:30) QUOT...   Nov 28 2006, 01:40
||- - sheik124   QUOTE (John Lockwood @ Nov 27 2006, 19:40...   Dec 5 2006, 03:20
||- - sheik124   QUOTE (sheik124 @ Dec 4 2006, 21:20) QUOT...   Dec 6 2006, 12:22
|- - chelgrian   QUOTE (EuMesmo @ Nov 11 2006, 23:06) Actu...   Nov 27 2006, 13:28
- - /mnt   WMA Lossless can be transcoded to AAC or ALAC in i...   Jul 16 2006, 15:02
- - vetinry   Guys Thanks for taking the time to reply. Am I r...   Jul 16 2006, 15:57
|- - chelgrian   QUOTE (vetinry @ Jul 16 2006, 15:57) Guys...   Jul 16 2006, 17:44
- - vetinry   Thanks I think I'm getting the gist of what y...   Jul 16 2006, 19:49
|- - John Lockwood   QUOTE (vetinry @ Jul 16 2006, 19:49) Than...   Oct 11 2006, 17:19
- - beto   You should go with MP3 if lossy is an option for y...   Oct 11 2006, 17:50
|- - John Lockwood   QUOTE (beto @ Oct 11 2006, 17:50) You sho...   Oct 12 2006, 14:28
|- - beto   Just a few comments. QUOTE (John Lockwood @ ...   Oct 12 2006, 14:41
|- - soliluna   John, thanks for all the tips I finally got my A...   Jun 4 2007, 14:46
|- - John Lockwood   QUOTE (soliluna @ Jun 4 2007, 14:46) John...   Oct 16 2007, 12:24
- - Mike Giacomelli   QUOTE (vetinry @ Jul 16 2006, 02:03) I ha...   Oct 12 2006, 14:51
|- - Veej007   this is seems like an appropriate time to reiterat...   Oct 13 2006, 09:03
||- - jcoalson   don't forget to complain to apple too.   Oct 13 2006, 19:07
|||- - chelgrian   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Oct 13 2006, 19:07) don...   Oct 16 2006, 01:07
||- - Nick E   QUOTE (Veej007 @ Oct 13 2006, 02:03) this...   Oct 13 2006, 19:53
|- - John Lockwood   QUOTE (Mike Giacomelli @ Oct 12 2006, 14...   Oct 13 2006, 21:37
- - windmiller   The WMPTSE plugin is certainly worth checking out.   Nov 27 2006, 13:08
- - Gow   For iTunes there is a QT Component that allows the...   Nov 28 2006, 02:32
|- - eofor   QUOTE (Gow @ Nov 28 2006, 02:32) For iTun...   Nov 28 2006, 09:35
|- - xxx666yyy777   QUOTE (eofor @ Nov 28 2006, 03:35) Too ba...   Dec 5 2006, 02:46
- - Klyith   QUOTE (xxx666yyy777 @ Dec 4 2006, 20:46) ...   Dec 5 2006, 03:07
|- - xxx666yyy777   QUOTE (Klyith @ Dec 4 2006, 21:07) QUOTE ...   Dec 5 2006, 05:15
- - Mangix   make sure to enable ALAC in the audio configuratio...   Dec 5 2006, 07:03
|- - xxx666yyy777   QUOTE (Mangix @ Dec 5 2006, 01:03) make s...   Dec 5 2006, 16:34
- - Mangix   now that i just saw it, i can't seem to find i...   Dec 6 2006, 02:45
|- - John Lockwood   QUOTE (Mangix @ Dec 6 2006, 02:45) now th...   Dec 7 2006, 02:40
||- - sheik124   QUOTE (John Lockwood @ Dec 6 2006, 20:40)...   Dec 7 2006, 02:49
|- - xxx666yyy777   QUOTE (Mangix @ Dec 5 2006, 20:45) now th...   Dec 9 2006, 18:21
- - DCoder   QUOTE (sheik124 @ Dec 6 2006, 17:49) QUOT...   Dec 7 2006, 10:11
|- - sheik124   QUOTE (DCoder @ Dec 7 2006, 04:11) QUOTE ...   Dec 8 2006, 01:03
|- - sheik124   QUOTE (sheik124 @ Dec 7 2006, 19:03) QUOT...   Dec 9 2006, 17:24
|- - sheik124   QUOTE (sheik124 @ Dec 9 2006, 11:24) QUOT...   Dec 10 2006, 00:57
|- - John Lockwood   QUOTE (sheik124 @ Dec 10 2006, 00:57) QUO...   Dec 10 2006, 18:12
|- - sheik124   QUOTE (John Lockwood @ Dec 10 2006, 12:12...   Dec 10 2006, 18:25
- - Mangix   as an alternative, you can use foobar2000 with the...   Dec 10 2006, 02:34
|- - sheik124   QUOTE (Mangix @ Dec 9 2006, 20:34) as an ...   Dec 10 2006, 16:34
- - DCoder   QUOTE Anyone have any info on why it may be having...   Dec 10 2006, 19:37
|- - sheik124   QUOTE (DCoder @ Dec 10 2006, 13:37) QUOTE...   Dec 10 2006, 23:31
|- - sheik124   In case anyone is interested, VLC has libavcodec p...   Dec 11 2006, 01:30
- - Mangix   mov and mp4 should be generally the same thing. th...   Dec 10 2006, 21:05
- - ShinKen   Thanks to this forum and this thread, I was able t...   Dec 22 2006, 03:59
|- - Tuono   QUOTE (ShinKen @ Dec 22 2006, 03:59) Than...   Dec 18 2007, 21:32
|- - John Lockwood   QUOTE (Tuono @ Dec 18 2007, 21:32) QUOTE ...   Dec 19 2007, 23:17
|- - Andy2000   All, I have the same problem. Thanks to John...   Jan 3 2008, 17:54
|- - John Lockwood   QUOTE (Andy2000 @ Jan 3 2008, 17:54) All,...   Jan 4 2008, 00:20
|- - grommet   Extenders can stream uncompressed PCM audio. So, ...   Jan 4 2008, 00:54
- - tanner   I probably spent a few time in the last few months...   Dec 31 2006, 05:45
- - DCoder   That's a common issue with Vista. Rightclic...   Jan 2 2007, 08:39
- - Mike Carlisle   Hi, I'm trying to follow this thread to work ...   Jan 4 2007, 15:07
- - Mike Carlisle   Thought I had it working... but no I've bee...   Jan 4 2007, 16:09
- - Cartoon   But what about the other way? How to create ALAC f...   Jan 4 2007, 17:31
|- - eofor   QUOTE (Cartoon @ Jan 4 2007, 17:31) But w...   Jan 4 2007, 18:53
|- - John Lockwood   QUOTE (Cartoon @ Jan 4 2007, 17:31) But w...   Jan 4 2007, 23:59
- - vetinry   As the original author of this thread, I'm del...   Mar 18 2007, 18:32
|- - John Lockwood   QUOTE (vetinry @ Mar 18 2007, 18:32) As t...   Mar 18 2007, 20:30
|- - headcase   Sorry, can I get some noob instructions on getting...   May 21 2007, 04:04
|- - John Lockwood   If your intention is to get Apple Lossless (aka. A...   May 21 2007, 23:16
|- - headcase   Thank you for doing all that work! Couple o...   May 22 2007, 17:09
- - DrButcher   i'm still confused, im hoping you guys can hel...   Jul 3 2008, 00:37
|- - John Lockwood   QUOTE (DrButcher @ Jul 3 2008, 00:37) i...   Jul 3 2008, 06:11
- - DrButcher   thanks for the quick reply, still a little confuse...   Jul 3 2008, 17:10
|- - John Lockwood   QUOTE (DrButcher @ Jul 3 2008, 17:10) tha...   Jul 3 2008, 20:08
- - DrButcher   i tried an AAC track and it did indeed play throug...   Jul 4 2008, 02:40
|- - John Lockwood   QUOTE (DrButcher @ Jul 4 2008, 02:40) i t...   Jul 5 2008, 09:41
- - DrButcher   ok so wmp wouldn't give me any info in the pro...   Jul 7 2008, 16:27
- - DrButcher   i also just re-registered the "file source (M...   Jul 7 2008, 17:50
|- - John Lockwood   QUOTE (DrButcher @ Jul 7 2008, 17:50) i a...   Jul 8 2008, 00:49
- - ptmx2   I ended up here after an internet search to find a...   Jul 8 2008, 02:38
- - DrButcher   i ended up deleting every single filter and then r...   Jul 9 2008, 18:12
|- - John Lockwood   QUOTE (DrButcher @ Jul 9 2008, 18:12) i e...   Jul 9 2008, 22:24
- - DrButcher   to tell you the truth, I don't even have itune...   Jul 10 2008, 05:23
|- - John Lockwood   QUOTE (DrButcher @ Jul 10 2008, 05:23) to...   Jul 10 2008, 11:16
- - DrButcher   BINGO! I ripped a CD to ALAC with itunes and ...   Jul 10 2008, 15:29
|- - John Lockwood   QUOTE (DrButcher @ Jul 10 2008, 15:29) BI...   Jul 11 2008, 11:01
- - Bloggeridge   Hi guys, Seems this is a popular topic, I have a ...   Oct 15 2014, 23:05


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