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freedb-project is dead
molnart
post Jul 3 2006, 02:25
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QUOTE (Patsoe @ Jul 3 2006, 02:41) *
Well, if foosion's "prediction" on his own plans (lol) is to come true, we'll actually have another option smile.gif
Ofcourse for that to happen, foosic will need more universal software-support.


foosic has currently 97.000 albums in the database, musicbrainz something over 400.000, both way below freedb's size.
I think the the freedb successor will need to import freedb's database into it's own db


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Patsoe
post Jul 3 2006, 02:51
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QUOTE (molnart @ Jul 3 2006, 02:25) *
foosic has currently 97.000 albums in the database, musicbrainz something over 400.000, both way below freedb's size.
I think the the freedb successor will need to import freedb's database into it's own db


Actually, musicbrainz has an interface to freedb, but you can only use it to manually import albums. It's a funny solution; they want to ensure that imported entries are checked to adhere to their extensive guidelines - or at least that's what I think is the rationale behind it. I imported two or three albums that way, and even though it was a smooth experience, it's probably too much effort to make it effective.

The alternative is indeed to just import all content that is in freedb. It means you're bringing in a lot of rubbish, too. I guess the musicbrainz people have though about that, and probably they had good reasons not to go that way. Once you have a lot of double entries in your db, it's harder to get them out than not allowing that in the first place, for example.

The strict tagging and naming guidelines that musicbrainz imposes are a natural reaction to the mess that freedb is (or was?), but it's not an ideal solution. I don't like to have to tag my albums according to their guidelines if I want to be allowed to add new data. It's all too rigid. And then consider that my music is mostly easy to tag... try tagging some classical music smile.gif

OK, that was sort of a braindump, probably you're thinking: "how is this a reaction to my post?" smile.gif
I think in the end, I agree with your idea that a successor will have to build upon freedb's content. But it will take a really smart database engineer to make it an improvement over freedb...

Maybe this could work for foosic, if they specify that every implementation that uses their db also does the fingerprinting stuff. Then they could just import all the freedb stuff, and some of it will just never get linked to real songs, and can eventually be washed out of the db... Probably this is oversimplified and naive thinking.
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skelly831
post Jul 3 2006, 03:25
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I've been playing around with the MusicBrainz Picard tagger. While I admire the consistency and organization of their DB, the tagging program itself is rather clunky and not very intuitive. The MusicBrainz DB is quite complete, there's some stuff I couldn't find, but everything else I searched for was spot on. And remember that freedb has a lot of info because theres a lot of repeated entries per album, this is something MB are avoiding with their own DB I think.

This post has been edited by skelly831: Jul 3 2006, 03:25


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brendo
post Jul 3 2006, 04:21
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QUOTE (molnart @ Jul 3 2006, 11:25) *
QUOTE (Patsoe @ Jul 3 2006, 02:41) *

Well, if foosion's "prediction" on his own plans (lol) is to come true, we'll actually have another option smile.gif
Ofcourse for that to happen, foosic will need more universal software-support.


foosic has currently 97.000 albums in the database, musicbrainz something over 400.000, both way below freedb's size.
I think the the freedb successor will need to import freedb's database into it's own db


I think if more people use the foosic component knowing that the freedb project is dead, the foosic library will expand quite rapidly!

Although I do agree to an extent
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audioaficionado
post Jul 3 2006, 05:52
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Bummer crying.gif

I'm downloading (maybe the last chance) the latest 7/1/06 db.

It may be full of errors but I can clean them up in EAC before I rip.

Sure beats manually keying in all that info for each rip.
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SebastianG
post Jul 3 2006, 08:12
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The CDDB protocol's 32 bit CD-TOC checksum was crap anyway.
I'm glad to see MusicBrainz support in CDEx smile.gif
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freak393
post Jul 3 2006, 08:40
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REAL SHAME - that's a big one leaving the scene... bye2.gif

Thank you guy's at freedb for all your work!!! It's alway been so seamless,
as soon as I put in my CD, EAC had all the album information ready to use
(with some corrections to do sometimes wink.gif )...

Guess there's not much one can do. There do seem to be times when you
have to let go?!

As for the audio community, let's hope for an alternative to become available
soon. MB looks quite good to me!

Best regards!
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jaybeee
post Jul 3 2006, 08:53
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That's really sad news. Freedb is brilliant. But I'm sure something will emerge in the not too distant future... it always does right?

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I've always loved the Discogs system/db. If there was a way for EAC to use that or indeed Music Brainz, then I'd be a happy man. MP3Tag can use both.

Foosic looks cool too. Not sure if that is allowed to be used in EAC though??

I keep mentioning EAC cos as we know that's seemingly still the ripper of choice.


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foosion
post Jul 3 2006, 10:02
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QUOTE (Patsoe @ Jul 3 2006, 03:51) *
Maybe this could work for foosic, if they specify that every implementation that uses their db also does the fingerprinting stuff. Then they could just import all the freedb stuff, and some of it will just never get linked to real songs, and can eventually be washed out of the db... Probably this is oversimplified and naive thinking.
The foosic database grows by collecting playback events, i.e. the client software submits information about the currently playing song - with or without the fingerprint - and this gets added to the database. The lookup protocol to be used with tagging software always uses fingerprints, so just adding data from freedb without fingerprints does not really help to increase the usefulness of foosic as a tagging service.


QUOTE (SebastianG @ Jul 3 2006, 09:12) *
The CDDB protocol's 32 bit CD-TOC checksum was crap anyway.
I'm glad to see MusicBrainz support in CDEx smile.gif
I fully agree about the disc ID. The "ISO 8859-1" (or rather whatever client software used instead for submitting) legacy entries were pretty annoying as well. At least that's something the freedb2.org developer was working on. According to what he announced on the freedb forums, he had converted all but 30000 entries from local encodings to UTF-8.


QUOTE (jaybeee @ Jul 3 2006, 09:53) *
Foosic looks cool too. Not sure if that is allowed to be used in EAC though??
Garf was annoyed by the fingerprint used in MusicBrainz being proprietary and deliberately made his fingerprint open-source:
QUOTE (foosic homepage)
libFooID library, including full source code, a static library and a DLL version. Freely available under either GPL or a modified BSD license.


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jaybeee
post Jul 3 2006, 10:22
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QUOTE (foosion @ Jul 3 2006, 10:02) *
QUOTE (Patsoe @ Jul 3 2006, 03:51) *
Maybe this could work for foosic, if they specify that every implementation that uses their db also does the fingerprinting stuff. Then they could just import all the freedb stuff, and some of it will just never get linked to real songs, and can eventually be washed out of the db... Probably this is oversimplified and naive thinking.
The foosic database grows by collecting playback events, i.e. the client software submits information about the currently playing song - with or without the fingerprint - and this gets added to the database. The lookup protocol to be used with tagging software always uses fingerprints, so just adding data from freedb without fingerprints does not really help to increase the usefulness of foosic as a tagging service.
How long does a song need to play for enough info to be gathered and sent to the foosic db?

Would creating a fb2k plugin that 'plays' (for the required minimum time) or indeed simply scans someone's music library to then upload to the foosic db be possible?
Like many people I have a large and well tagged audio collection, and I'd be more than happy to get it into foosic.


QUOTE (foosion @ Jul 3 2006, 10:02) *
QUOTE (jaybeee @ Jul 3 2006, 09:53) *
Foosic looks cool too. Not sure if that is allowed to be used in EAC though??
Garf was annoyed by the fingerprint used in MusicBrainz being proprietary and deliberately made his fingerprint open-source:
QUOTE (foosic homepage)
libFooID library, including full source code, a static library and a DLL version. Freely available under either GPL or a modified BSD license.

Thanks for the info, sounds good.


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MC Escher
post Jul 3 2006, 10:29
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QUOTE (Patsoe @ Jul 2 2006, 17:51) *
The alternative is indeed to just import all content that is in freedb. It means you're bringing in a lot of rubbish, too. I guess the musicbrainz people have though about that, and probably they had good reasons not to go that way. Once you have a lot of double entries in your db, it's harder to get them out than not allowing that in the first place, for example.

Musicbrainz used to have a script running to import FreeDB entries automatically, but it was dropped for the reason you give here. wink.gif

QUOTE
The strict tagging and naming guidelines that musicbrainz imposes are a natural reaction to the mess that freedb is (or was?), but it's not an ideal solution. I don't like to have to tag my albums according to their guidelines if I want to be allowed to add new data. It's all too rigid. And then consider that my music is mostly easy to tag... try tagging some classical music smile.gif

Upcoming versions of the Picard tagger will allow you to be more flexible in the way your music is tagged with the information from the database. It's still a work in progress though.
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foosion
post Jul 3 2006, 10:53
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QUOTE (jaybeee @ Jul 3 2006, 11:22) *
How long does a song need to play for enough info to be gathered and sent to the foosic db?

Would creating a fb2k plugin that 'plays' (for the required minimum time) or indeed simply scans someone's music library to then upload to the foosic db be possible?
Like many people I have a large and well tagged audio collection, and I'd be more than happy to get it into foosic.
The threshold for a track to be submitted to foosic.org by foobar2000 (rather the foo_sic component) is 60 seconds, unless the track is shorter. The server has a spam protection, so it will drop submissions that come in too frequent, i.e. less than 25 seconds after the last if I remember correctly. This is because the submission protocol is intended to track playback events, not to submit track metadata en masse. Please see the foosic.org discussion thread in the foobar2000 forum for details.


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Supacon
post Jul 3 2006, 11:30
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I too have many thousands of high quality, well tagged audio files, and I could probably contribute substantially to a project like this, if there's a fairly easy, more-or-less automated way to do it.

Obviously something needs to take freedb's place. In a way, it could be a good thing though, because there were a lot of technical limitations to freedb. I like how new systems maybe can support things like cover-art, audio fingerprinting, and libraries of all artists, etc... and would potentially have ways of ensuring better accuracy and correctness of spelling and consistency of formatting, which were big issues with freedb.

Freedb also had way many false positives (and sometimes false negatives).

I guess it's just time to move on. It was nice while it lasted!
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Eli
post Jul 3 2006, 12:54
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Now clearly is a time for a new database to step up. Hopefully this will be a chance for MB to get better support. It would be nice to see MB add the foosic open acoustic fingerprint, for future proofing their database.


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andars
post Jul 3 2006, 17:36
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Why doesn't this community start up some sort of freedb type project.
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Supacon
post Jul 3 2006, 18:40
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QUOTE (andars @ Jul 3 2006, 10:36) *
Why doesn't this community start up some sort of freedb type project.

Time, money, complex technical issues...

It'd take some pretty fancy programming and such... There are probably already alternatives in the works that could take freedb's place. And there's always gracenote, if needs be, I suppose.

This post has been edited by Supacon: Jul 3 2006, 18:42
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Jud
post Jul 3 2006, 19:12
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QUOTE
update:
currently, there are talks with organisations regarding freedb's future.
I am trying to find an organisation that takes the domain and ensures
the following:

- they have to provide the freedb service, not only take the domain
- the service must remain free of charge for users and developers, regardless of the application
- database updates will be available on a regular schedule and will be free of charge
- the licence of the data and the software will remain under the GPL
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/mnt
post Jul 3 2006, 19:24
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Dam this is sad news, I always prefered freedb over CDDB and AMG.


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spoon
post Jul 3 2006, 21:04
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> am trying to find an organisation that takes the domain and ensures

freedb weekly top 20 clients
1. Nero 1792188
2. CDex 676765
3. Tag&Rename 524235
4. FreeRIP MP3 462734
5. Easy CD-DA Extractor 442345
6. Exact Audio Copy 328667
7. Audiograbber 324872
8. libkcddb 301165
9. dBpowerAMP Music Converter 244666
10. freedbdemo 231942
...

Anyone else think Nero should take it over? wink.gif


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greynol
post Jul 3 2006, 21:19
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QUOTE (spoon @ Jul 3 2006, 13:04) *
Anyone else think Nero should take it over?

Sure if they promise to remove DAE and audio burning from their software. biggrin.gif



(...may I have two seconds of silence by default between my lack of error detection please?)


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LaserSokrates
post Jul 3 2006, 21:21
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Man, I never would have thought that so many people use Nero for tagging (and ripping?) their audiofiles. Must be all those OEM versions and some piracy.
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greynol
post Jul 3 2006, 21:25
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QUOTE (LaserSokrates @ Jul 3 2006, 13:21) *
Man, I never would have thought that so many people use Nero for tagging (and ripping?) their audiofiles. Must be all those OEM versions and some piracy.

Let's hope the pirates aren't using Nero. wink.gif


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/mnt
post Jul 3 2006, 21:28
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QUOTE (spoon @ Jul 3 2006, 21:04) *
Anyone else think Nero should take it over? wink.gif


Think about the bloatwared computers laugh.gif

This post has been edited by /mnt: Jul 3 2006, 21:29


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molnart
post Jul 3 2006, 22:26
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I don't think Nero would be the best choice, but they may be interested in freedb. Probably they will be not to eager to implement several solutions into their program without knowing wich one will become dominant.
The numbers inducate that the Nero customers are using this feature, so Ahead needs to provide it to them.
The server infrastructure is already available, so taking over freedb seems to be the easiest solution.

But there are some people involved in Nero around here on HA, maybe they could add something to the topic...


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DARcode
post Jul 3 2006, 23:33
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Any comments by André regarding possible alternatives for EAC he might be already considering?


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