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Burning Gapless CD's
indybrett
post Nov 19 2002, 19:13
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I've tried a few other resources to see if I can figure this out, hopefully someone hear can help.

I sometimes have large WAV files that need to be split into individual audio tracks. It is my understanding that these need to be split on sector boundaries to burn perfectly gapless CD's.

I've tried a couple of differerent methods for doing this. I use a program called CDWave to split the file. This program is designed to split on sector boundries. Then I take the WAV files and burn them DAO, making sure to remove the 2 second gaps that Nero wants to put in by default.

The other method I have tried is to just leave it as one huge WAV file, and use a CUE sheet to define the tracks.

Either way, I have had mixed results. Although I don't get pops in between the tracks, there is still a slight hesitation between some tracks.

Using a CUE sheet, the track marks did not come out the same on my CD player as what was in the CUE file.


Hmmmmm....

Maybe someone can suggest what I might be missing here. I hope so.

Thanks,

Brett


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SonicReducer
post Nov 19 2002, 20:13
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I use CD Wave all the time and have never had any problems so I don't think that's it.

I'm curious what your source is? Are you starting from MP3? If so, then that's probably the problem. Depending on how they're encoded, the MP3 format can "create" a fraction of silence at the end of the file. CD Wave and CUE sheets can't fix that, only a WAV editor.

If I'm making a live/concert CD or something, here's what I do (it's a pain in the ass but it always works)....

1) Create your WAV files (from MP3, ripping CD, whatever).
2) Load each WAV file individually into a WAV editor (like Cool Edit or something) and zoom in on the WAV (to where you can only see like 2 seconds of audio) and look at the beginning and end of the WAV. If there is any dead space, remove it.
3) Use some program to merge your WAV files into one large WAV.
4) Load that large WAV file into CD Wave and split the file on boundries.
5) Burn DAO.

I've never had a problem when making a CD like that.
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Pio2001
post Nov 19 2002, 23:29
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Free methods :

Feurio can let you set tracks into a wav before burning.

If you need to zoom vertically in order to see what you're doing accurately, use rather EAC, but it's a bit more complicated :

Click tools/process wav. The track 1 must begin exactly at the beginning of the file, therefore, cut unwanted part here if needed.
To enable vertical zooming, click display/vertical scale format/automatic range selection.

Then click cuesheet/create cuesheet.

Move the cursor where you want the next track to begin, and click cuasheet/insert/track start.

Repeat the operation for all tracks. Once done click cuesheet/save cuesheet.

If your burner is supported, you can burn this cuesheet with EAC, but you can also burn it with Feurio.

Nero allows to do it too (no vertical zoom, clumsy cursor handling), Import your wav, right click it, and set the markers. Back into the main window, select all tracks but the first, right click and reset the pause to zero.
Use only Nero 5.5.7.8 or newer, previous version has a bug that will cut 1/75th of a second of the end of each track (or each wav ?)

Dedicated (and expensive) software :

Sonic Foundry's SondForge is a wav editor capable of burning CDs
Steinberg's Wavelab is a very powerful soft that performs multitrack CD mastering.
Magix Samplitude producer is a top of the art software for CD mastering.

I don't know Wavelab, so I don't know if it's better than Samplitude. They seem to perform exactly the same job, and are the two best ones.

Links :

Feurio : http://www.feurio.deEAC : http://www.exactaudiocopy.de

No need to buy Nero for that purpose, it's not better than Feurio or EAC.

SoundForge : http://www.sonicfoundry.com
Wavelab : http://www.steinberg.net/en/ps/products/au...index.php?sid=0
Samplitude : http://www.magix.com (professional section)

This post has been edited by Pio2001: Nov 21 2002, 21:09
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Xenion
post Nov 20 2002, 15:38
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rip your files with the right offset (EAC) und burn them with an offset corrected burner (EAC Write) or use Nero Disc at Once
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indybrett
post Nov 20 2002, 22:17
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An example of my source audio would be an audio rip done from a music DVD. I end up with a WAV file that may be 1.2GB.

So, spilt it in half with CD Wav, and I have two 600MB WAV files. I maneged to burn a perfectly smooth gapless CD by using a CUE sheet. Thing is, the track indexes are not exactly the same on the burned CD as the CUE sheet.

For example, in the CUE sheet, track 2 might start at the 10:00 mark. On the actual CD, it might start at 10:01. This actually gets progressively worse as you move up to track 10 or 11.

If I play the WAV file in CDWave using the CUE sheet, everything is right where it's supposed to be.

Somewhere in the burn process, the track indexes are "adjusted". I've tried Nero, Fireburner, and EAC. Same thing.

WTF?

Brett


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M
post Nov 20 2002, 22:58
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Hmm... by any chance, when you created the CUE sheet in CDWave, had you forgotten to resample the audio to 44.1 KHz? That would explain the progressively shifted cue points; CDWave would be indexing from the source, regardless of samplerate, but your burning software would still be forced to resample (on-the-fly, which is never the best way to resample anything!) the audio to match the Red Book standard.

But then, I'm guessing. If you already resampled the audio - and you probably did - the only other thing I could recommend would be to take the CD you burned, pop it back into EAC, and use "Action" > "Create CUE Sheet." This will tell you where the burned indexes differ. If for some reason the CUE sheets are identical, that should mean the fault lies in your playback hardware instead of your software. Other than that, I'm not sure what to suggest... save for possibly burning your WAVs/Cue sheets as data on a CD-R, taking them to a friend's house, and seeing whether the error is replicable. Sorry, if this doesn't solve your problem. sad.gif

- M.
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Randum
post Nov 21 2002, 01:15
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In my experience, nero will always insert (tiny) gaps between tracks, even if you have gaps set to 0. The only solution I've found is to burn with EAC... not the most elegant interface, but its the only burner I've found so far which does everything right, gap-wise.
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indybrett
post Nov 21 2002, 01:44
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As a last resort, I thought I would try some more CD burning software.

This would be about the 4th or 5th different one. I used Feurio with the same WAV file and CUE sheet that I had used in Nero and EAC. It came out perfect with Feurio.

I am totally stumped. I'm happy. But I'm really clueless as to why this worked, when the other burning software didn't.

The CD was gapless (which I had already accomplished), but this time the track indexes were perfect. Exactly the same as when I had made them in CDWave.


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indybrett
post Nov 21 2002, 03:01
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The WAV files were 48KHz. You nailed it {M}. I guess Feurio was resampling on the fly. Now that I know that, I think I'll go back and convert to 44.1 with something different before I burn.

Thanks everyone.

Brett

This post has been edited by indybrett: Nov 21 2002, 03:15


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M
post Nov 21 2002, 03:28
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QUOTE (indybrett @ Nov 20 2002 - 09:01 PM)
The WAV files were 48KHz. You nailed it {M}. I guess Feurio was resampling on the fly. Now that I know that, I think I'll go back and convert to 44.1 with something different before I burn.

Thanks everyone.

Brett

Glad I could help. smile.gif

- M.
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ger@co
post Nov 21 2002, 07:06
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indybrett:

If you have CEP v1.2a or v2.0 (I don't know if this will work in CoolEdit 2000 because I have never worked with it), and you like the hands on approach, then try this method. It is a drawn out process, but it works perfectly everytime.

1. Open each file using "Open Append." This will place a cue at the beginning and end of each file.
2. You can either edit out the silence as you go along, or you can load all the files and edit the silence when you have finished. I have used both methods and they work fine either way.
3. Once you have finished loading and editing your files, select "View\Show Cue List," or hit Alt+8.
4. Highlight everything in the cue list and click "Merge."
5. The items in the cue list should still be highlighted (if they aren't, then highlight them again), now click "Batch."
6. When the "Batch Process" window pops up, set the amout of silence to 0.0.
7. Then Select "Use cue label as filename prefix." This will keep the names of the original files.
8. Now set your "destination folder," and select your "output" as "Windows PCM (*.wav)."
9. Click OK, and your files will be saved as individual .wav files without the offending gaps between them.
10. Finally, burn your songs and enjoy your new "gapless" compilation.

By the way, you can raise or lower the volume, or use "Effects\Noise Reduction\Clip Restoration" to correct clipped files, or any damned thing you wish to do before you "Merge and Batch." It's all up to you.

One last thing, if you are looking for a "Quick Fix," then this process is not for you. But, if you love "working" with your files, you will probably enjoy the whole process as much as I do.

Later. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by ger@co: Nov 21 2002, 07:10


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Pio2001
post Nov 21 2002, 12:12
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QUOTE (Randum @ Nov 21 2002 - 03:15 AM)
In my experience, nero will always insert (tiny) gaps between tracks, even if you have gaps set to 0.

Bug solved in Nero 5.5.7.8 and above.
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ghettobooster
post Oct 4 2004, 03:36
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hey, new poster here, I just wanted to say thanks for showing me Feurio, I have Samplitude, but it was making errors when I would try to burn my project to cd. So I made the wave and split up the tracks with Feurio thanks to your advice! Cheers!

Gbooster
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