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Nero 7.2 Released, Nero Releases Huge Update of its Flagship Product
Ivan Dimkovic
post Apr 25 2006, 20:51
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Yes, encoder now decides which mode is the best for the bit-rate.

SBR/PS trigger depends on few parameters, but for 44.1 kHz, Stereo it happens at:

- SBR is used for bit-rates less than 96 kbps
- PS is used for bit-rates less than 48 kbps
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kurtnoise
post Apr 25 2006, 20:52
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QUOTE (Gambit @ Apr 25 2006, 09:34 PM) *
The point is, I didn't even install it.

This is automatically installed with (choose what you want here below) :
  • Nero PhotoSnap
  • Nero Burning ROM
  • Nero Express
  • Nero Vision
  • Nero SoundTrax
  • Nero WaveEditor

QUOTE (Gambit @ Apr 25 2006, 09:34 PM) *
So why should I have to disable it now?

to avoid to be paranoid ?? tongue.gif
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Ivan Dimkovic
post Apr 25 2006, 20:52
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QUOTE (IgorC @ Apr 25 2006, 07:49 PM) *
Great!

2 pass mode in future?


This week most likely wink.gif
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rosshmusic
post Apr 25 2006, 20:56
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EDIT.... ivan beat me to it

This post has been edited by rosshmusic: Apr 25 2006, 20:57
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jazzymelody
post Apr 25 2006, 21:01
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hundreds of megabytes while most of this forum are just concerned for few kilobytes.

Bloat my system babe! --I dont touch this thing
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micimaci
post Apr 25 2006, 21:26
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i don't get your points - it isn't so huge......

i live in a village, where is a verry poor internet coverage - i'm conected on a mobile phone and it will take 4 hours to download it...

you should turn on the download and check it next morning - so will do i....
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yulyo!
post Apr 25 2006, 22:06
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I have downloaded the new version.
I have installed and go right to the encoder. There i see a line, from left to right, that tells me "encoder quality" kbs, small size----high quality.
Is this normal? blink.gif
Than i have put one mp3 for encoding, choose the highest quality [440 kbs] (just fot test) and...after a few seconds....i have a brand new file @ 224kbs ohmy.gif
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Jens Rex
post Apr 25 2006, 22:12
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You know, I don't really care that much about having to download 130 MB or whatever it is, even though my "broadband" is dog slow. What bothers me more is that I'm forced to download things I don't need. You're slowing me down, because you force me to install these useless things, that you think I want.

I haven't seriously tried Nero 7 yet, but I get the feeling from this thread, that you can now mostly choose what components you want. That's great. There's nothing I hate more than applications doing things behind my back. Installing useless services, stealing associations, and putting retarded toolbars and widgets all over. I just want to record files to a disk. Why can't I have a say in the matter? Some people want all of this, and that's fine, but I and many others don't, so accept that not everyone want's your packaged multimedia solution and give us a choice.

I'm not questioning the competence of Nero developers... I figure some mouth breather in marketing concocted this scheme.
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riggits
post Apr 25 2006, 22:16
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QUOTE (kurtnoise @ Apr 25 2006, 11:52 AM) *
QUOTE (Gambit @ Apr 25 2006, 09:34 PM) *

The point is, I didn't even install it.

This is automatically installed with (choose what you want here below) :
  • Nero PhotoSnap
  • Nero Burning ROM
  • Nero Express
  • Nero Vision
  • Nero SoundTrax
  • Nero WaveEditor
QUOTE (Gambit @ Apr 25 2006, 09:34 PM) *
So why should I have to disable it now?

to avoid to be paranoid ?? tongue.gif


Here's a solution for Nero Scout. It's a bloody nuisance, & the reason why my copy of Nero 7 has lain dormant in favour of Nero 6.6. If you use NCAB you can get Recode2, Nero Burning ROM, NVE all in about 26MB total size. The point is, that extra 100MB is basically useless cruft. Even Microsoft Office (the crowned king of bloat) doesn't install crap you explicitly UNcheck during the setup procedure.

I'm installing v7 today for use with MeGUI. See what those low bitrates can do. Testing now.....
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guruboolez
post Apr 26 2006, 07:16
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I have it! After 7h40minutes, yeah!

I can't use it anymore with foobar2000 0.9.1. So I can't compare the speed in the same way. I tested it with one file:
- aac 4.2.4.8 = speed was between x5.8 and x7.3; avg=x6.3
- aac Apr 19 2006 = speed is between x6.5 and x8; avg=???
Speed is ~15% faster on my computer

I just finished my first encodings, at 128 kbps (is it ABR or VBR? The bitrate's fluctuation is limited according to faad_test). Quality is pleasant of course. Some previous issues I noticed in the past are not present anymore:
- distortions with highly tonal instrument (organ, bagpipe) are gone or highly reduced and without any bloat anymore [for memory: older encoders were excellent with "fast" mode but bitrate was used to explode]
- ringing with low volume signal is also not an issue anymore.

I nevertheless noticed irritating smearing with different samples. If people are interested to check if I'm not dreaming:

- Nero Digital
- iTunes

There are also audible problems with micro-impulse like signal, but considering the bitrate, it's more or less the case for all encoders/formats.
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guruboolez
post Apr 26 2006, 08:26
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Much more anedoctal: the ultra-low 16 kbps bitrate sounds weird. Considering the bitrate it must be normal, but... Winamp's encoder sounds very differently. In comparison, the new Nero suffer from a strong "underwater" effect (whereas Winamp's/CT AAC is very scr...scrr...scratchy).

Nero 16 kbps
Winamp 16 kbps

This post has been edited by guruboolez: Apr 26 2006, 08:27
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yulyo!
post Apr 26 2006, 08:39
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So, could anyone tell me why i have a 244 kbs file, after reencoding an mp3 to mp4 @ 440 kbs?
A few posts upper, i have told you a few more things about this problem. thanx
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guruboolez
post Apr 26 2006, 08:46
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Tried with a short sample at different bitrate:

200 => 189 kbps
240 => 210 kbps
280 => 223 kbps
320 => 252 kbps
360 => 261 kbps
400 => 266 kbps
440 => 216 kbps huh.gif

The 400 kbps has no lowpass at all whereas the "440" one is lowpassed at 17 Khz. Anyway, the second half of the current slider looks completely inaccurate.
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Ivan Dimkovic
post Apr 26 2006, 08:58
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Nero Plug-in does not use CBR which is the reason why sometimes 448 kbps cannot be reached.

For people that wish to use pure CBR 448 kbps, there will be a separate solution this week - that has this mode.

I will look at the lowpass thing now.

This post has been edited by Ivan Dimkovic: Apr 26 2006, 08:58
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Garf
post Apr 26 2006, 09:02
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QUOTE
Tried with a short sample at different bitrate:

200 => 189 kbps
240 => 210 kbps
280 => 223 kbps
320 => 252 kbps
360 => 261 kbps
400 => 266 kbps
440 => 216 kbps huh.gif


The 400 kbps has no lowpass at all whereas the "440" one is lowpassed at 17 Khz. Anyway, the second half of the current slider looks completely inaccurate.


Known issues, fixed in latest version, but that couldn't make the commercial release as it had to go through QA.

Selecting maximum quality will select a special "pure psymodel VBR" mode. This is a development feature that should have been disabled.

As for quality slider, also known and fixed. It does actually work, but it's not a linear scale, and this becomes a bit too obvious at the high end. New one is completely linear.

This post has been edited by Garf: Apr 26 2006, 09:03
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guruboolez
post Apr 26 2006, 09:08
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Could someone see what happens when this sample is encoded at "440" kbps? On my side, the encoding is amazingly fast, but the resulting file is corrupted. The bug looks identical to the one submitted just before the 48 kbps listening test begins. It doesn't seem to affect all other settings (only tried once though).

This post has been edited by guruboolez: Apr 26 2006, 09:08
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yulyo!
post Apr 26 2006, 09:32
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Ok Garf. So, i just have downloaded 122 mb for a few kbs (the encoder) and those kbs are not good? Because the very latest aac encoder couldn't make the commercial release?
This reminds me of the first Nero 7 release.
I aslo downloaded 122 mb for something not finished, and that "should have been disabled"?
So, if the new slider is "New one is completely linear", then i think that in a few weeks i'll have to download again those 122 mb. Am i right?
Maybe we should have an option to download ONLY new versions of Nero's AAC Encoder.
Don't get me wrong. I love Nero, i love Nero's AAC. But i'm just tired to be dissapointed with every release, with bugs, issues, and with a promise that the next version will be better.
Anyway, contratulations for Ivan, Garf and the rest of the Mp4 developing team. And a big veryangry.gif gun2.gif for the marketing team.
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Ivan Dimkovic
post Apr 26 2006, 09:36
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Don't shoot the marketing team, please! smile.gif

CBR 448 kbps is not even planned for the Nero plug-in as the plug-in is not using CBR anyway.

We have a solution for your need, this week - and, no, you will NOT have to download 120 MB again smile.gif
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yulyo!
post Apr 26 2006, 09:42
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Oookyyy doookkyyy rolleyes.gif
I'm waiting lalala.gif
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Gambit
post Apr 26 2006, 09:54
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QUOTE (Garf @ Apr 26 2006, 10:02 AM) *
Known issues, fixed in latest version, but that couldn't make the commercial release as it had to go through QA.

That's the quote of the year. You should make it your new signature. wink.gif


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Ivan Dimkovic
post Apr 26 2006, 10:20
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Just bear in mind that many companies out there do not even communicate with the customers and communities this way - leave alone listen to the requests and work on wished features and bugfixes with communities.

So, I apologise for some borderline settings that might not work correctly in the current release, but we are really doing all we can to make sure everything is top-notch quality, which I believe it already is smile.gif

Concerning the "next release" I think people waiting for perfect 448 CBR, VBR and 2-pass can wait a day or two more smile.gif

And, yes, bugs reported are fixed already - and fixes will be there, too.

This post has been edited by Ivan Dimkovic: Apr 26 2006, 10:21
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Garf
post Apr 26 2006, 10:25
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QUOTE (yulyo! @ Apr 26 2006, 10:32 AM) *
Ok Garf. So, i just have downloaded 122 mb for a few kbs (the encoder) and those kbs are not good? Because the very latest aac encoder couldn't make the commercial release?
This reminds me of the first Nero 7 release.
I aslo downloaded 122 mb for something not finished, and that "should have been disabled"?
So, if the new slider is "New one is completely linear", then i think that in a few weeks i'll have to download again those 122 mb. Am i right?


I don't get what you are complaining about. We continously improve the software, and each new release has new features. Each time we release something, the very latest development version is already" better" and we try to get that into the *next* release. If you don't ever want to be surprised by a new version that is better than the one you just encoded your entire collection with, then for the love of god, use some dead format, and not Nero AAC, because we're actually improving it!

This post has been edited by Garf: Apr 26 2006, 10:28
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yulyo!
post Apr 26 2006, 10:36
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Al i have allready said: Anyway, contratulations for Ivan, Garf and the rest of the Mp4 developing team tongue.gif
I am using Nero AAC and intend to buy the suite.
I am waiting for the "surprise" announced by Ivan rolleyes.gif
Ivan:[i] "Just bear in mind that many companies out there do not even communicate with the customers and communities this way - leave alone listen to the requests and work on wished features and bugfixes with communities." = AGREE wink.gif

This post has been edited by yulyo!: Apr 26 2006, 10:45
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Gambit
post Apr 26 2006, 10:47
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QUOTE (Ivan Dimkovic @ Apr 26 2006, 11:20 AM) *
Just bear in mind that many companies out there do not even communicate with the customers and communities this way - leave alone listen to the requests and work on wished features and bugfixes with communities.

Excuse me, but the only changes Nero did on behalf of the community were the codec tunings. And let's be honest. The contribution from the community are highly profitable for you and help you in pushing and improving your AAC codec. Eg, the input from all the tests Guru is doing is of immense value for you. It's the work your testing department should be doing. Instead you get it for free from Guru.

As far as I can see it, all other community requests and wishes, are mostly ignored by Nero. Even more importantly, even basic bugs take ages to get fixed. As other people already said, we are highly thankful and happy with the work you audio guys at Nero are doing. Not so with the rest of the company.


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seanyseansean
post Apr 26 2006, 11:25
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QUOTE (Gambit @ Apr 26 2006, 10:47 AM) *
QUOTE (Ivan Dimkovic @ Apr 26 2006, 11:20 AM) *

Just bear in mind that many companies out there do not even communicate with the customers and communities this way - leave alone listen to the requests and work on wished features and bugfixes with communities.

Excuse me, but the only changes Nero did on behalf of the community were the codec tunings. And let's be honest. The contribution from the community are highly profitable for you and help you in pushing and improving your AAC codec. Eg, the input from all the tests Guru is doing is of immense value for you. It's the work your testing department should be doing. Instead you get it for free from Guru.

As far as I can see it, all other community requests and wishes, are mostly ignored by Nero. Even more importantly, even basic bugs take ages to get fixed. As other people already said, we are highly thankful and happy with the work you audio guys at Nero are doing. Not so with the rest of the company.


Agreed. I want a disc burner, not "Yet Another All In One Media Solution" that I spend money on but still have to run cleanup tools on afterwards. You'd have thought by spending money i'd get what I need but no, apparently it means I have to give up my system to Ahead so they can leverage this.

I mean, come on, who uses Nero Scout? Has the 'bug' where it automatically gets installed even when deselected been fixed? I'd imagine the marketing department will have a say in that.
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