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Will Vorbis 2.0 be backwards compatible?
tsioc
post Apr 19 2006, 11:36
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topic says it all.
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vlada
post Jun 5 2006, 12:38
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I earlier already mentioned, that Ogg formats are not very user-friendly. I give you one example why. Today I downloaded some files from this site. I'll let you know my experiences.

First of all Firefox offered me to open the files with Apollo (my default music player). I had to manually choose a video player (ViPlay, ordinary DirectShow player). It didn't play. So I downloaded the file to my HDD and did some tests.

Firstly I tried to open the Ogg file in some audio players: Apollo, Winamp, XMPlay, foobar2000 - nothing played. I expected at least one player will start playing the audio track. I tried some video players - VLC - worked O.K., MPC - worked, all other DS players failed.

Why? I have installed Illiminable filters, Haali's splitter and FFDShow (Thera and Vorbis allowed). But all DS players will load Illiminable splitter, then connect audio and video to Illiminable DS decoders. For an uknown reason this graph doesen't work, I even tried it in GraphEdit. AviSynth with DirectShowSource failed too.

MPC played file fine, as long as I used internal Ogg spliter and FFDShow decoder. If I disabled FFDShow, MPC wasn't able to connect to Illiminable Theora decoder. The same happend to Illiminable Vorbis decoder if I disabled MPC's and FFDShow's decoders.

I finally found out, that all I need to do is to rename the file to *.ogm. Then Haali's splitter will be used together with FFDShow and it plays almost fine. I say almost, because both FFDShow and VLC used my whole CPU (Athlon XP 1,3 GHz) and the video was still choppy (standard NTSC 640x480, 30fps). MPEG-4 ASP would use about 20% of CPU on my machine.

So my suggestions to developers:

1) Fix Illiminable filters, also make them so, that they can connect to other Ogg splitters and fix the Ogg splitter to allow connection to other decoders (such as FFDShow).

2) I would really suggest to use OGM extension for video files. For most people OGG = Ogg Vorbis and it is an audiofile. I have my audio files associated to a simple audio player (Apollo) and video files to ViPlay. Most people use different players for audio and video IMHO. Matroska uses MKV extension for video and MKA for audio. MP4 allows the same confusion as Ogg, but many people are using M4A for audio-only MP4s.

3) Why don't audio players play Vorbis streams in Ogg file? It works O.K. with Matroska (at least in foobar2000).

4) As I already mentioned a web plugin for OGG would be a really good idea. Something like this DivX plugin.

5) Haali could add support for OGG extension to his filter.
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- tsioc   Will Vorbis 2.0 be backwards compatible?   Apr 19 2006, 11:36
- - Garf   As far as I know noone is working on it, so the qu...   Apr 19 2006, 12:42
|- - tsioc   QUOTE (Garf @ Apr 19 2006, 04:42 AM) As f...   Apr 19 2006, 13:02
|- - kjoonlee   QUOTE (tsioc @ Apr 19 2006, 09:02 PM) QUO...   Apr 22 2006, 06:56
- - Liisachan   Probably this info is too old but in Ogg Traffic f...   Apr 21 2006, 09:18
- - HotshotGG   QUOTE There was a possible hack for OggWrit, xiph...   Apr 22 2006, 06:11
- - vlada   It seems to me, like if all Xiph.org projects were...   Apr 22 2006, 08:09
|- - Liisachan   QUOTE (vlada @ Apr 22 2006, 07:09 AM) It ...   Apr 22 2006, 08:59
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (vlada @ Apr 22 2006, 05:09 PM) It ...   Apr 22 2006, 14:16
|- - vlada   QUOTE (jmvalin @ Apr 22 2006, 03:16 PM) Q...   Apr 22 2006, 20:12
- - kjoonlee   If you want to know what's going on at Xiph.or...   Apr 22 2006, 10:22
- - sh1leshk4   Someone seems really ticked off here. Anyway, li...   Apr 22 2006, 18:31
- - Supacon   QUOTE (vlada @ Apr 22 2006, 01:09 AM) It ...   Apr 22 2006, 19:46
- - jorsol   QUOTE It seems to me, like if all Xiph.org project...   Apr 22 2006, 19:51
- - vlada   jorsol> I posted my answer before I saw your po...   Apr 22 2006, 20:34
|- - Liisachan   QUOTE (vlada @ Apr 22 2006, 07:34 PM) jor...   Apr 23 2006, 02:32
- - jorsol   Yes, Theora need a lot of work... and thats why it...   Apr 22 2006, 21:41
- - Liisachan   This was posed a few days ago. http://wiki.xiph.o...   Apr 23 2006, 02:45
- - kjoonlee   The Schrödinger Project Ogg Dirac work is being d...   Apr 23 2006, 04:25
- - vlada   Liisachan> First of all sorry to Aoyumi for mis...   Apr 26 2006, 11:10
|- - Liisachan   QUOTE (vlada @ Apr 26 2006, 10:10 AM) Lii...   Apr 27 2006, 00:57
- - Supacon   Isn't that more up to the creators of the soft...   Apr 26 2006, 23:37
- - jorsol   yes... Microsoft will never add native support for...   Apr 27 2006, 00:29
- - bubka   last I heard of vorbis II was back before I was ev...   Apr 27 2006, 01:04
- - smok3   some ppl are actually using theora and it 'str...   Apr 27 2006, 01:38
|- - vlada   QUOTE (smok3 @ Apr 27 2006, 02:38 AM) som...   Apr 27 2006, 09:57
- - towolf   You can also track Xiph commits in real-time: http...   Apr 27 2006, 09:53
- - Liisachan   I didn't mean "Theora is hard to play....   Apr 27 2006, 11:33
- - vlada   I earlier already mentioned, that Ogg formats are ...   Jun 5 2006, 12:38
|- - kjoonlee   QUOTE (vlada @ Jun 5 2006, 20:38) 3) Why ...   Jun 8 2006, 12:06
|- - SebastianG   QUOTE (vlada @ Jun 5 2006, 13:38) I earli...   Jun 8 2006, 15:55
|- - vlada   QUOTE (SebastianG @ Jun 8 2006, 16:55) QU...   Jun 8 2006, 17:00
|- - jcoalson   QUOTE (vlada @ Jun 8 2006, 11:00) I know ...   Jun 8 2006, 20:54
- - VEG   QUOTE I earlier already mentioned, that Ogg format...   Jun 6 2006, 12:36
|- - vlada   QUOTE (VEG @ Jun 6 2006, 13:36) QUOTE I e...   Jun 6 2006, 16:59
- - gameplaya15143   QUOTE (vlada @ Jun 5 2006, 07:38) 1) Fix ...   Jun 6 2006, 22:56
- - gameplaya15143   For Ogg Theora I have been using *.ogv (.ogg opens...   Jun 8 2006, 17:13
|- - LaserSokrates   QUOTE (gameplaya15143 @ Jun 8 2006, 18:13...   Jun 8 2006, 17:39
- - jorsol   The big problem is not to have only one extension ...   Jun 8 2006, 18:35
- - vlada   gameplaya15143 I don't have OggDS or CoreVorbi...   Jun 8 2006, 20:35
- - HotshotGG   QUOTE I know exactly what is OGM and I also know, ...   Jun 8 2006, 23:45
|- - SebastianG   QUOTE (HotshotGG @ Jun 9 2006, 00:45) The...   Jun 9 2006, 11:08
- - foxyshadis   QUOTE (vlada @ Jun 8 2006, 09:00) I know ...   Jun 11 2006, 04:52
|- - vlada   QUOTE (foxyshadis @ Jun 11 2006, 05:52) Q...   Jun 13 2006, 08:19
- - jorsol   QUOTE (SebastianG @ Jun 9 2006, 04:08) No...   Jun 13 2006, 15:58
- - gameplaya15143   @vlada: this applies to illiminable's oggcodec...   Jun 14 2006, 00:42
- - jorsol   QUOTE (gameplaya15143 @ Jun 13 2006, 17:4...   Jun 14 2006, 01:57


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