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Yet another lossless audio compressor..., Would it make any sense?
TBeck
post Apr 1 2006, 03:04
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Hi,

(sorry, my english isn't very good...)

i have been working (for fun) on lossless audio compression since about 1997. Finally i would like to bring this thing (especially the never-ending-search for just a tenth of a percent more compression...) to an end. In the light of the big bunch of existing Compressors, i am not quite sure, if it would be of any use to add one more Compressor to the public. The preparations for a useful release would be much further work, and i wouldn't like to waste my time for something not needed.

My Compressor uses similar techniques like FLAC, but far more elaborated. Compression ratios lie between Monkey's Audios High- and Extra-High-Mode (Can be better than Extra High at the expense of a considerable increase of encoding time). Encoding Speed is a bit slower than Monkey's, Decoding Speed is much higher on most Files. Seek-Times should also be better cause of the maximum (independent) frame length of 250 ms.

I would like to read some opinions. Would it make any sense to release it?

Thanks

Thomas
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Skymmer
post Apr 1 2006, 21:31
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QUOTE (rutra80 @ Apr 1 2006, 08:26 PM)
An encoder with compression ratio as high as Monkey's Audio but faster at decoding would be certainly a nice thing.
*


Agree here, but personaly I think that it will be quite hard to achieve high compression ratios while making format non-symmetric.


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TBeck
post Apr 1 2006, 23:55
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QUOTE (Skymmer @ Apr 1 2006, 10:31 PM)
Agree here, but personaly I think that it will be quite hard to achieve high compression ratios while making format non-symmetric.
*


Yeah, i like asymmetrical Compression. Possibly time for some Data:

Participiants:
TAK (Toms Audio K©ompression) Alpha, unreleased
FLAC V 1.1.2 Win
Monkey V 3.99
OptimFrog V 4.520b [2006.03.02] (beta)

System:
Pentium III / 866 MHz

CODE
           TAK                       FLAC      Monkey 3.99       OptimFrog
Mode:       High    Extra   Insane |  -8     |  High    Extra  |  Best   |
-----------------------------------+---------+-----------------+---------+
Song_02     48.41   47.87   47.73  |  51.03  |  48.00   47.28  |  47.88  |
Song_04     33.15   32.59   32.56  |  37.27  |  33.58   32.35  |  32.76  |
Song_06     33.74   33.34   33.20  |  37.04  |  33.77   33.09  |  33.01  |
Song_08     44.97   44.56   44.45  |  49.74  |  44.81   43.59  |  43.82  |
Song_10     56.41   56.00   55.94  |  59.10  |  55.95   54.97  |  55.03  |
Song_12     53.86   53.33   53.27  |  57.62  |  53.04   51.99  |  51.57  |
Song_14     48.97   48.51   48.44  |  51.87  |  48.65   47.76  |  47.69  |
Song_16     74.16   73.82   73.79  |  75.95  |  73.70   73.44  |  73.27  |
-----------------------------------+---------+-----------------+---------+
Sum:        47.86   47.41   47.33  |  51.35  |  47.62   46.70  |  46.81  |
EncoTime:   53.01  270.94  595.41  |  --.--  |  57.15  109.02  |  --.--  |
DecoTime:   13.50   14.90   15.19  |  --.--  |  63.92  114.71  |  --.--  |
-----------------------------------+---------+-----------------+---------+
Bach_01     58.29   54.40   53.20  |  64.67  |  60.05   55.42  |  59.27  |
Bartok_01   48.69   48.19   48.13  |  53.30  |  49.17   47.74  |  48.40  |
Debussy_01  26.17   26.04   25.96  |  28.55  |  26.48   26.12  |  25.59  |
Mahler_01   48.32   47.69   47.42  |  49.87  |  47.73   47.09  |  47.51  |
Speech_01   30.96   30.46   30.17  |  34.15  |  31.81   31.78  |  29.10  |
-----------------------------------+---------+-----------------+---------+
Sum:        42.50   41.40   41.02  |  46.00  |  43.02   41.62  |  42.04  |
EncoTime:    8.87   46.97  104.87  |  --.--  |   9.23   18.12  |  --.--  |
DecoTime:    2.20    2.56    2.65  |  --.--  |  11.74   20.52  |  --.--  |
-----------------------------------+---------+-----------------+---------+
S_24_44_01  59.56   59.41   59.38  |  61.69  |  59.23   58.97  |  --.--  |
S_24_44_02  62.27   62.08   62.05  |  65.87  |  61.85   61.70  |  --.--  |
S_24_44_03  52.42   52.18   52.15  |  54.65  |  52.32   51.88  |  --.--  |
S_24_48_01  62.86   62.58   62.51  |  65.16  |  62.83   62.45  |  --.--  |
S_24_48_02  54.27   54.13   54.09  |  55.89  |  53.99   53.92  |  --.--  |
S_24_48_03  78.72   78.57   78.52  |  97.93  |  79.26   79.30  |  --.--  |
-----------------------------------+---------+-----------------+---------+
Sum:        58.13   57.94   57.90  |  60.88  |  57.89   57.65  |  --.--  |
EncoTime:   23.37  113.12  247.91  |  --.--  |  28.01   49.20  |  --.--  |
DecoTime:    5.79    6.21    6.28  |  --.--  |  30.83   53.37  |  --.--  |
-----------------------------------+---------+-----------------+---------+


I don't know, how long a post can be. So to be continued in the next post.

Thomas
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rjamorim
post Apr 2 2006, 01:22
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QUOTE (TBeck @ Apr 1 2006, 07:55 PM)
CODE
-----------------------------------+---------+-----------------+---------+
Sum:        58.13   57.94   57.90  |  60.88  |  57.89   57.65  |  --.--  |
EncoTime:   23.37  113.12  247.91  |  --.--  |  28.01   49.20  |  --.--  |
DecoTime:    5.79    6.21    6.28  |  --.--  |  30.83   53.37  |  --.--  |
-----------------------------------+---------+-----------------+---------+
*


That's good. Too good. It's indeed truly remarkable!

What day is today again?


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TBeck
post Apr 2 2006, 01:45
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ Apr 2 2006, 02:22 AM)
QUOTE (TBeck @ Apr 1 2006, 07:55 PM)
CODE
-----------------------------------+---------+-----------------+---------+
Sum:        58.13   57.94   57.90  |  60.88  |  57.89   57.65  |  --.--  |
EncoTime:   23.37  113.12  247.91  |  --.--  |  28.01   49.20  |  --.--  |
DecoTime:    5.79    6.21    6.28  |  --.--  |  30.83   53.37  |  --.--  |
-----------------------------------+---------+-----------------+---------+
*


That's good. Too good. It's indeed truly remarkable!

What day is today again?
*



No, no, no... I should have carefully looked into my calendar before posting... Bad timing.

But it's true. The whole design of the compressor was made for speed. When i started with the work (1997) my pc was simply too slow to perform the necessary test runs for evaluation in tolerable time. Then i got my first Pentium MMX with 200 MHz. And that it was: MMX made the things 2 to 3 times faster. So i built the whole compressor for the 16 Bit-Arithmetic, that MMX allowed. To be exact, most calculations are beeing done in 13 Bit.

This choice makes things fast, but the reduced resolution sacrifies some compression efficiency. I too did a comparison with MPEG4 Lossless (mpeg4als). If you use the switch -7, you activate a asymmetric compression mode which is very similar to my Compressor or FLAC. But it's about 0.40 percent better on my test corpus than TAC. One reason seems to be the use of 64-Bit arithmetic, which on the other hand is quite slow.

And to lower my credibility just a little bit more: With the SSE3 instruction set found in newer X86-CPU's, Tac could become even faster, because it provides 8 instead of 4 of the necessary calculations simultaniously...

Should i officially confirm my posts when the 1.4. is over?

Thomas
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rjamorim
post Apr 2 2006, 01:57
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QUOTE (TBeck @ Apr 1 2006, 09:45 PM)
But it's true.


Ok, I'm sorry. But cut me some slack. You register here out of nowhere right on April 1st, comes up with a completely groudbreaking innovation in lossles encoding, and still asks "Would it make any sense to release it?" biggrin.gif

QUOTE
Should i officially confirm my posts when the 1.4. is over?
*


It's over already in Germany, right? smile.gif


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TBeck
post Apr 2 2006, 02:13
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ Apr 2 2006, 02:57 AM)
QUOTE (TBeck @ Apr 1 2006, 09:45 PM)
But it's true.


Ok, I'm sorry. But cut me some slack. You register here out of nowhere right on April 1st, comes up with a completely groudbreaking innovation in lossles encoding, and still asks "Would it make any sense to release it?" biggrin.gif

QUOTE
Should i officially confirm my posts when the 1.4. is over?
*


It's over already in Germany, right? smile.gif
*




Yes. And i confirm, that it isn't a joke!

I didn't rate my work as groundbreaking. I know for example, that the highest compression modes of OptimFrog give up to 2 percent better compression than TAC. Nevertheless i am a bit proud of the speed of my compressor. That's true.

But i understand, that my post could be a bit suspicious. Possibly a successful troll would even present something a bit surprising instead of something hard to believe. Sigh...

But i initially wanted some motivation to force the release of my compressor. And in this context the need to prove, that my compressor isn't Vaporware, is useful.

Thomas
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Posts in this topic
- TBeck   Yet another lossless audio compressor...   Apr 1 2006, 03:04
- - kornchild2002   In the beginning, I really didn't understand l...   Apr 1 2006, 03:48
|- - TBeck   QUOTE (kornchild2002 @ Apr 1 2006, 04:48 AM)U...   Apr 1 2006, 04:28
|- - neomoe   QUOTE (TBeck @ Mar 31 2006, 07:28 PM)QUOTE (k...   Apr 1 2006, 09:18
|- - jcoalson   QUOTE (TBeck @ Mar 31 2006, 10:28 PM)Building...   Apr 2 2006, 06:51
|- - TBeck   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Apr 2 2006, 07:51 AM)I woul...   Apr 2 2006, 18:16
|- - TBeck   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Apr 2 2006, 07:51 AM)it sti...   Apr 2 2006, 19:40
|- - Shade[ST]   Is there any way we can get a sourcecode release o...   Apr 2 2006, 20:20
|- - jcoalson   QUOTE (TBeck @ Apr 2 2006, 01:40 PM)QUOTE (jc...   Apr 3 2006, 01:33
|- - TBeck   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Apr 3 2006, 02:33 AM)Thomas...   Apr 3 2006, 02:02
- - William   In my opinion, competition is always welcome. Take...   Apr 1 2006, 03:48
|- - TBeck   QUOTE (William @ Apr 1 2006, 04:48 AM)If the ...   Apr 1 2006, 04:42
|- - kwanbis   QUOTE (William @ Apr 1 2006, 02:48 AM)In my o...   Apr 1 2006, 14:56
- - Enig123   TBeck, Sounds interesting. I'm really happy t...   Apr 1 2006, 04:06
|- - TBeck   QUOTE (Enig123 @ Apr 1 2006, 05:06 AM)TBeck, ...   Apr 1 2006, 04:55
- - MusicLover   QUOTE (TBeck @ Mar 31 2006, 06:04 PM)Hi, (so...   Apr 1 2006, 10:38
|- - TBeck   QUOTE (MusicLover @ Apr 1 2006, 11:38 AM)Hey,...   Apr 1 2006, 16:35
|- - pest   I've worked on something similiar the last yea...   Apr 1 2006, 16:42
- - Skymmer   QUOTE (TBeck @ Apr 1 2006, 05:04 AM)I would l...   Apr 1 2006, 13:11
|- - TBeck   QUOTE (Skymmer @ Apr 1 2006, 02:11 PM)QUOTE (...   Apr 1 2006, 16:37
- - Triza   Nobody needs another one that is only 1-2% better....   Apr 1 2006, 18:21
- - rutra80   An encoder with compression ratio as high as Monke...   Apr 1 2006, 18:26
|- - Duble0Syx   QUOTE (rutra80 @ Apr 1 2006, 09:26 AM)An enco...   Apr 1 2006, 18:53
- - xmixahlx   you really don't need an official release righ...   Apr 1 2006, 20:22
- - boombaard   QUOTE IMHO Monkey's Audio is a poor codec simp...   Apr 1 2006, 21:26
- - Skymmer   QUOTE (rutra80 @ Apr 1 2006, 08:26 PM)An enco...   Apr 1 2006, 21:31
|- - TBeck   QUOTE (Skymmer @ Apr 1 2006, 10:31 PM)Agree h...   Apr 1 2006, 23:55
|- - TBeck   The Table in the previous post contains results fr...   Apr 1 2006, 23:57
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (TBeck @ Apr 1 2006, 07:55 PM)CODE-----...   Apr 2 2006, 01:22
|- - TBeck   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Apr 2 2006, 02:22 AM)QUOTE ...   Apr 2 2006, 01:45
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (TBeck @ Apr 1 2006, 09:45 PM)But it...   Apr 2 2006, 01:57
|- - TBeck   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Apr 2 2006, 02:57 AM)QUOTE ...   Apr 2 2006, 02:13
|- - William   QUOTE (TBeck @ Apr 2 2006, 01:13 AM)Yes. And ...   Apr 2 2006, 06:42
- - Skymmer   Truly speaking I'm little bit impressed. The r...   Apr 2 2006, 00:56
|- - TBeck   QUOTE (Skymmer @ Apr 2 2006, 01:56 AM)Truly s...   Apr 2 2006, 01:23
|- - pest   QUOTE (TBeck @ Apr 1 2006, 04:23 PM)Furthermo...   Apr 2 2006, 13:52
- - Cartman_Sr   This discussion reminds me of that episode of the ...   Apr 2 2006, 07:15
- - Eric   IHMO, if you could transform your ideas into some ...   Apr 2 2006, 15:20
- - Mo0zOoH   Hey, that's really something special! I do...   Apr 2 2006, 15:30
- - Skymmer   QUOTE (Cartman_Sr @ Apr 2 2006, 09:15 AM)Let ...   Apr 2 2006, 18:04
|- - Liisachan   QUOTE (Skymmer @ Apr 2 2006, 05:04 PM)For TBe...   Apr 2 2006, 18:33
- - bryant   If I understand your table correctly, you are sayi...   Apr 2 2006, 20:40
|- - TBeck   QUOTE (bryant @ Apr 2 2006, 09:40 PM)If I und...   Apr 2 2006, 21:07
||- - bryant   QUOTE (TBeck @ Apr 2 2006, 12:07 PM)So i woul...   Apr 2 2006, 22:02
|- - TBeck   QUOTE (bryant @ Apr 2 2006, 09:40 PM)If I und...   Apr 2 2006, 21:22
|- - Shade[ST]   I'm sure many people will wish to donate for u...   Apr 2 2006, 21:39
- - pepoluan   Well, I am currently performing a Lossless Compres...   Apr 2 2006, 20:59
- - TBeck   Possibly time for some summary. Especially because...   Apr 2 2006, 22:04
- - TBeck   If nothing unexpected happens, i will release an e...   Apr 3 2006, 09:34
|- - Garf   QUOTE (TBeck @ Apr 3 2006, 10:34 AM) Woul...   Apr 12 2006, 13:17
- - Emanuel   If none of the moderators object, you can use the ...   Apr 3 2006, 10:17
- - Squeller   TBeck, could you describe your basic algorithm ide...   Apr 3 2006, 10:25
|- - TBeck   QUOTE (Squeller @ Apr 3 2006, 11:25 AM)TBeck,...   Apr 3 2006, 11:24
- - Skymmer   QUOTE (TBeck @ Apr 3 2006, 11:34 AM)Would it ...   Apr 3 2006, 11:39
|- - john33   QUOTE (Skymmer @ Apr 3 2006, 10:39 AM) QU...   Apr 12 2006, 13:24
- - towolf   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Apr 3 2006, 02:33 AM)if you...   Apr 4 2006, 10:28
|- - TBeck   QUOTE (towolf @ Apr 4 2006, 11:28 AM)QUOTE (j...   Apr 4 2006, 10:36
|- - towolf   QUOTE (TBeck @ Apr 4 2006, 11:36 AM)QUOTE (to...   Apr 4 2006, 10:46
|- - TBeck   QUOTE (towolf @ Apr 4 2006, 11:46 AM)QUOTE (T...   Apr 4 2006, 10:50
- - TBeck   Links to 24 bit files i have used I think, they a...   Apr 12 2006, 16:17


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