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Winamp 5.2: First Beta Version out!, Gapless MP3, AAC+ in MP4, 32 bit wave
Garf
post Jan 26 2006, 17:42
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QUOTE (ckjnigel @ Jan 26 2006, 12:17 AM)
I think (sort of a question) that the space overhead for an MP4 container is more significant at these rates, and am glad MediaCoder created *.aac files smaller than what I got using MP4/aacPlus Encoder v1.2 with "File Information: Accurate Information" directly using Winamp 5.2.
*


MP4 container should be quite low overhead (much less than AAC ADTS!).

Compared to ADIF AAC it may be bigger, but at least you can still seek (quickly).

This post has been edited by Garf: Jan 26 2006, 17:55
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benski
post Jan 26 2006, 19:23
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QUOTE (Garf @ Jan 26 2006, 12:32 PM)
QUOTE (benski @ Jan 25 2006, 11:56 PM)
QUOTE (amano @ Jan 25 2006, 05:04 PM)
What do the bitstream options (MPEG 2 vs MPEG 4) do?
What do the accurate vs compatible options do with the MP4 container?
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MPEG-4 bitstream enables the use of TNS (temporal noise shaping) and LTP (long term prediction, although I have no idea if the encoder actually uses it - i've heard mixed things about it).


This is completely wrong.

TNS was already included in MPEG 2 AAC. The only relevant feature added in MPEG 4 AAC is PNS, which will help at lower bitrates. LTP isn't used by any sane encoder, because almost no decoders support it (FAAD2 does, but anything in hardware almost certainly wont). In fact, it's not even compatible with HE-AAC!

So, enabling this is safe except for very old hardware decoders.
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Yeah, my bad. Mixing up acronyms.

This post has been edited by benski: Jan 26 2006, 19:35
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benski
post Jan 26 2006, 19:27
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QUOTE (Garf @ Jan 26 2006, 12:35 PM)
I believe this mode is a loss in almost all conditions btw, i.e. you will never get better quality than in normal modes. We have it in Nero AAC too, but it's disabled. Guess why tongue.gif
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ckjnigel
post Jan 26 2006, 19:31
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QUOTE (Garf @ Jan 26 2006, 11:42 AM)
MP4 container should be quite low overhead (much less than AAC ADTS!).
Compared to ADIF AAC it may be bigger, but at least you can still seek (quickly).
*

Thanks very much, Garf!
I'm wondering if ADIF is what XM Satellite uses, since there'd be no need for seeking in the broadcast stream.
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Garf
post Jan 26 2006, 19:40
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QUOTE (ckjnigel @ Jan 26 2006, 08:31 PM)
QUOTE (Garf @ Jan 26 2006, 11:42 AM)
MP4 container should be quite low overhead (much less than AAC ADTS!).
Compared to ADIF AAC it may be bigger, but at least you can still seek (quickly).
*

Thanks very much, Garf!
I'm wondering if ADIF is what XM Satellite uses, since there'd be no need for seeking in the broadcast stream.
*



That probably just uses a raw stream without headers, or packed with custom headers which are relevant for their application.
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Garf
post Jan 26 2006, 19:46
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QUOTE (benski @ Jan 26 2006, 08:27 PM)
QUOTE (Garf @ Jan 26 2006, 12:35 PM)
I believe this mode is a loss in almost all conditions btw, i.e. you will never get better quality than in normal modes. We have it in Nero AAC too, but it's disabled. Guess why tongue.gif
*



TOS #8? (sorry, couldn't resist)
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*



You should test it in any case. Just don't blindly encode all new files in this mode, without actually checking what happens, just because it seems new.

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benski
post Jan 26 2006, 19:47
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QUOTE (ckjnigel @ Jan 26 2006, 02:31 PM)
I'm wondering if ADIF is what XM Satellite uses, since there'd be no need for seeking in the broadcast stream.
*


There is also LOAS, which allows raw streaming with light synchronization overhead. No idea what XM uses, tho.
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Ivan Dimkovic
post Jan 26 2006, 22:07
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QUOTE
TOS #8? (sorry, couldn't resist)


AES article: aacPlus, Only a Low-Bitrate Codec?
Preprint Number: 6199 Convention: 117 (October 2004)
Authors: Ehret, Andreas; Horich, Holger; Kjorling, Kristofer; Purnhagen, Heiko; Roden, Jonas

Some listening tests are there.
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Enig123
post Jan 27 2006, 10:05
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At least the new CT's LC-AAC encoder has a frequency cutoff @ 16k Hz @ 128k bitrate (confirmed with Audacity).

IIRC, one of a former listening test degrade CT's LC-AAC encoder due to a low frequency cutoff (15.5k Hz).

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Garf
post Jan 27 2006, 11:44
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QUOTE (Ivan Dimkovic @ Jan 26 2006, 11:07 PM)
QUOTE
TOS #8? (sorry, couldn't resist)


AES article: aacPlus, Only a Low-Bitrate Codec?
Preprint Number: 6199 Convention: 117 (October 2004)
Authors: Ehret, Andreas; Horich, Holger; Kjorling, Kristofer; Purnhagen, Heiko; Roden, Jonas

Some listening tests are there.
*



Since AES is not accessible to everyone: at 80kbps to 96kbps it broke even, but at a large cost in extra processing, and a loss of compatibility.
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Ivan Dimkovic
post Jan 27 2006, 12:23
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In fact - one good use of single-rate SBR is compatibility with iPods but with following restrictions:

Pro - Single Rate SBR files would be played back on LC devices as 44.1 kHz encodings, with less pre-echo and little bit more bandwidth

Con - In fact, better quality could be achieved by directly encoding in appropriate LC mode

Con - Single Rate SBR, decoded on compliant decoder is not better neither than double rate SBR (except in few pre-echo cases) nor LC-AAC at 80 and 96 kbps - in best case it is marginally better - at least according to the listening tests from that AES paper

Con - Single Rate SBR bears very high penalty in decoding performance costs - something not to be bothered with on todays P4 PC, but still - it is a huge drop in performance

112 and 128 kbps modes are still to be investigated - but at this point I don't really think single-rate SBR is a way to go.
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bond
post Jan 27 2006, 12:30
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i have heard some rumours that multichannel aac encoding isnt supported anymore? is that true?


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kurtnoise
post Jan 27 2006, 13:23
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@Benski or someone else : could you provide short samples from aacplus encoder (with mpeg2 and mpeg4 bitstream), please ?

I would like to check something. Thanks... smile.gif


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amano
post Jan 27 2006, 13:27
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the Winamp 5.2.0365 Beta build is out!

It fixes this stuff:
* mp3 tag writing crash
* german language pack crash
* in_midi song length glitch
* foreign characters from incorrectly tagged id3v2 files

I uodated the first thread posts.

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geopoul
post Jan 28 2006, 23:51
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At last, unicode support for ID3v2 tags in winamp. I won't stop using fb2k though.

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pepoluan
post Jan 29 2006, 18:50
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I just had to do the silliest things biggrin.gif

Transcoded some .ogg to .m4a, then out of sheer curiosity, rename one to .aac and try to play it in WinAmp.

It crashed spectacularly.


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amano
post Jan 31 2006, 20:32
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New build out with these fixes:

5.2.0393
* Fixes a memory leak when using playlist winshade mode in the modern skin.
* Fixes in_mp3 security hole.
* Added experimental skin-colored icons to media library tree - let us know what you think.
* Changed the "Devices" parent node (in media library) to "Rip & Burn". The dialog on this page is still in the experimental phase.
* Portable Media Player fixes
* Fixed blank titles for unknown filetypes ("Fixed in_mp3 blankness. Still gotta fix in_vorbis")
* Fixed blank titles when atf is disabled (uses default "artist - title")
* Fixed not all tracks showing in ml for cd's ripped to m4a
* Fixed tracklength display for mp3's with CRCs
* Fixed tracklength displaying as 0:00 for dragged url's
* Fixed "Show Winamp in folder context menus" always being checked on upgrades
* Fixed winamp not loading if winamp.m3u is deleted or read-only
* Fixed reading of id3 tags not written in Unicode or ISO-8859-1
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ckjnigel
post Jan 31 2006, 20:39
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Why does it call home when I close it?
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amano
post Jan 31 2006, 20:42
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You can turn that off. It tries to update its (shoutcast,...) server list.

General Preferences --> Media Library --> Online Media --> Modify Preferences -----> There uncheck the "Look for new online media channels on exit"

I agree. That should be grouped with all other "online" preferences, to make Winamp's internet behaviour more transparent.

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pepoluan
post Feb 2 2006, 06:52
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Don't know if this is fixed yet in latest build (failed to download it several times), just want to report that build 365, I can view/edit .ogg properties only once per file. If I close the dialog box and want to open it again for the same file, it won't. I can open the .ogg properties for other .ogg files, also only once.

Have to restart Winamp if I want to view/edit .ogg properties of the same file.


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DARcode
post Feb 2 2006, 12:25
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QUOTE (pepoluan @ Feb 2 2006, 07:52 AM)
Don't know if this is fixed yet in latest build (failed to download it several times), just want to report that build 365, I can view/edit .ogg properties only once per file. If I close the dialog box and want to open it again for the same file, it won't. I can open the .ogg properties for other .ogg files, also only once.

Have to restart Winamp if I want to view/edit .ogg properties of the same file.
*

It's in the known bugs here: http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?po...395#post1851395.


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amano
post Feb 3 2006, 10:00
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I think that it is to note that the new Winamp developer team is much more focused on sound quality and standards compliance. Gapless MP3 playing, LAME encoding, MP4 containers, proper unicode support (even support for ape tags is planned!).

I still have to bug them to turn off the crappy MP3 equalizer by default and to use the much better global one (from 4Front).
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DARcode
post Feb 3 2006, 12:43
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QUOTE (amano @ Feb 3 2006, 11:00 AM)
[...]even support for ape tags is planned![...]
*
Couldn't see where it's mentioned, can you please point it out ot me?
QUOTE (amano @ Feb 3 2006, 11:00 AM)
[...]I still have to bug them to turn off the crappy MP3 equalizer by default and to use the much better global one (from 4Front).
*
Thanks, I still forget about it msyelf sometimes, but it just takes a quick listen to notice.


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amano
post Feb 4 2006, 15:03
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Certainly not for, 5.2 but (maybe) for a later release.

QUOTE
APE v2 tags support
Hopefully planned for a later release... we shall see: http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64975


OK. It sounds rather like a "maybe", but it is more than it was before.
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ckjnigel
post Feb 10 2006, 20:29
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A build 427 was posted for download a few hours ago.
The Winamp forum thread is at http://tinyurl.com/8fga6 .
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