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How do you hear tones?, Find out inside
Continuum
post Jan 18 2006, 10:37
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The last edition of the German (snake-oil) HiFi-magazine AUDIO reported on some interesting recent research on hearing. They claim humanity is made up of two types of listeners: the fundamental tone hearer and the overtone hearer. They go on and say that the former is prevalently hearing with the left side of his brain and usually prefers melodic music and higher instruments (piano, violin, flute), while the latter is hearing with his ride side and favours instruments with rich timbre (voice, bassoon, cello).

There is a simple test, to find out to which class you belong. A pair of sounds is played and you decide whether the frequency is increasing or decreasing.

Here is the file: audio.de - overtone.flac
There is a total of 12 pairs. A German-speaking voice introduces each iteration and every pair is repeated once. For each sequence jot down, whether you thought the frequency to be increasing or decreasing.

Afterwards compare your results with this table:
CODE
       incr    decr
1               x
2               x
3       x        
4       x        
5       x        
6       x        
7               x
8               x
9       x        
10              x
11              x
12      x        

The more your results agree with this list, the more you are a fundamental tone hearer. If your result is the exact inverse of the above, you are a pure overtone hearer.
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Lyx
post Feb 6 2007, 01:41
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The main flaw in the claim they make, is that they turning "effect" into "cause". Or asume both to be equal. Thats a typical mistake often done by those who apply natural science to psychology.

Essentially, what they get as the "effect" is: people who prefer tone-class A, have higher activity in the left side of the brain. And for those who prefer tone-class B, the opposite is true.

This is a valid statement about the effect they are seeing. They do however then make an invalid conclusion about the "cause". Being natural science chauvinists, they exclude any "mind->body" cause beforehand (because natural science cannot handle that :) and automatically asume a "body->mind" cause. Thus, they asume "people like tone-class A more beCAUSE of their brain-structure dictates them to do so".

Thus, they use a test-method which has well known shortcomings, and then fix those shortcomings by making invalid asumptions about the testobject". Why? Well, because natural science works great in the material domain, but not at all in the mental domain. Thus, they fix it by simply asuming that you have no consciousness. But as every HA.org reader knows by the rule of the holy TOS#8, this is bullshit. Of course, it may be the case that their asumption is correct. But they cannot know beforehand.

- Lyx

This post has been edited by Lyx: Feb 6 2007, 01:49
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mugen
post Feb 6 2007, 13:57
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QUOTE (Lyx @ Feb 5 2007, 18:41) *
The main flaw in the claim they make, is that they turning "effect" into "cause". Or asume both to be equal. Thats a typical mistake often done by those who apply natural science to psychology.

Essentially, what they get as the "effect" is: people who prefer tone-class A, have higher activity in the left side of the brain. And for those who prefer tone-class B, the opposite is true.

This is a valid statement about the effect they are seeing. They do however then make an invalid conclusion about the "cause". Being natural science chauvinists, they exclude any "mind->body" cause beforehand (because natural science cannot handle that smile.gif and automatically asume a "body->mind" cause. Thus, they asume "people like tone-class A more beCAUSE of their brain-structure dictates them to do so".

Thus, they use a test-method which has well known shortcomings, and then fix those shortcomings by making invalid asumptions about the testobject". Why? Well, because natural science works great in the material domain, but not at all in the mental domain. Thus, they fix it by simply asuming that you have no consciousness. But as every HA.org reader knows by the rule of the holy TOS#8, this is bullshit. Of course, it may be the case that their asumption is correct. But they cannot know beforehand.

- Lyx


I was shocked, shocked I say, to see that amongst your interests is philosophy.

Anyway, I heard only fundamental tones.
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Lyx
post Feb 6 2007, 14:06
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QUOTE (mugen @ Feb 6 2007, 13:57) *
I was shocked, shocked I say, to see that amongst your interests is philosophy.

Yup, some people are shocked about philosophy :-) And will always be. It sometimes threatens common beliefs.

- Lyx
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Posts in this topic
- Continuum   How do you hear tones?   Jan 18 2006, 10:37
- - Continuum   While I don't agree with the alleged implicati...   Jan 18 2006, 10:40
- - hawkeye_p   Interesting. With the exception of the first pair...   Jan 18 2006, 11:02
- - milatchi   I guess I am more of a fundamental tone hearer   Jan 19 2006, 06:41
- - kjoonlee   So, if you get totally identical results then you...   Jan 19 2006, 09:02
- - hawkeye_p   Have you performed the test? At least Continuum a...   Jan 19 2006, 11:04
|- - kjoonlee   QUOTE (hawkeye_p @ Jan 19 2006, 07:04 PM)Have...   Jan 19 2006, 11:52
- - HotshotGG   QUOTE They claim humanity is made up of two types ...   Jan 19 2006, 11:27
- - bug80   Strange, all my results match exactly with the tab...   Jan 19 2006, 11:29
- - CarlosTheTackle   9/12 consistency with the table - mostly fundament...   Jan 19 2006, 13:06
|- - CosmoKramer   QUOTE (CarlosTheTackle @ Jan 19 2006, 01:06 P...   Jan 19 2006, 22:00
|- - kjoonlee   QUOTE (CarlosTheTackle @ Jan 19 2006, 09:06 P...   Jan 20 2006, 10:41
|- - QuantumKnot   QUOTE (kjoonlee @ Jan 20 2006, 07:41 PM)You k...   Jan 20 2006, 14:15
- - stephanV   I'm a complete fundamental tone hearer it seem...   Jan 19 2006, 13:20
- - Halcyon   QUOTE (Continuum @ Jan 18 2006, 11:37 AM)intr...   Jan 19 2006, 15:18
|- - mihkel   6/12...what am i   Jan 19 2006, 15:40
|- - Continuum   QUOTE (Halcyon @ Jan 19 2006, 03:18 PM)This i...   Jan 19 2006, 21:11
|- - CarlosTheTackle   QUOTE (Halcyon @ Jan 20 2006, 03:18 AM)QUOTE ...   Jan 19 2006, 22:09
|- - Segovia   QUOTE (CarlosTheTackle @ Jan 19 2006, 16...   Feb 6 2007, 08:51
- - Brad1981   I matched all 12 with the original poster's. M...   Jan 19 2006, 17:09
- - JeanLuc   QUOTE (Continuum @ Jan 18 2006, 09:37 AM)They...   Jan 19 2006, 17:44
- - marq_   I got 11/12. On foobars spectral view the band nar...   Jan 19 2006, 21:49
|- - Continuum   QUOTE (marq_ @ Jan 19 2006, 09:49 PM)I got 11...   Jan 19 2006, 23:16
- - benski   I don't feel qualified to judge my own hearing...   Jan 19 2006, 22:17
- - legg   Pure overtone hearer (2/12). I pay too much atten...   Jan 19 2006, 22:25
- - Gecko   Interesting. With headphones (tried two types) I m...   Jan 19 2006, 22:35
- - naturfreak   6/12   Jan 19 2006, 22:36
- - skelly831   12/12 match with the table, yay! I can hear fu...   Jan 19 2006, 22:48
- - Pio2001   Here is the sonogram of the sample : Every tria...   Jan 19 2006, 23:17
- - QuantumKnot   I got 100% exact answers to the table, so I guess ...   Jan 20 2006, 01:15
- - Gecko   I find it weird, that someone who thinks number 1 ...   Jan 20 2006, 01:50
|- - Continuum   QUOTE (Gecko @ Jan 20 2006, 01:50 AM)I find i...   Jan 20 2006, 08:12
- - benski   Every sequence is basically a chord in the normal ...   Jan 20 2006, 02:12
- - mdmuir   When I tried the test using my desktop speakers, I...   Jan 20 2006, 06:17
- - hawkeye_p   JeanLuc pointed out an interesting fact: I recall...   Jan 20 2006, 07:55
|- - Pio2001   QUOTE (hawkeye_p @ Jan 20 2006, 08:55 AM)Jean...   Jan 20 2006, 19:26
|- - JeanLuc   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Jan 20 2006, 06:26 PM)QUOTE ...   Jan 20 2006, 21:03
- - hawkeye_p   Continuum, your interpretation is not completely ...   Jan 20 2006, 10:09
- - Insolent   5/12 - I guess that edges me into the overtone cat...   Jan 20 2006, 14:44
- - rutra80   I'm unable to pass this test consistently. Whe...   Jan 20 2006, 15:14
- - Continuum   QUOTE (hawkeye_p @ Jan 20 2006, 10:09 AM)your...   Jan 20 2006, 16:56
|- - Wombat   Cool thing. I am a fundamental tone hearer with a ...   Jan 20 2006, 16:59
- - vinouz   hawkeye : continuum's interpretation is correc...   Jan 20 2006, 18:37
- - marq_   If your an fundamental tone hearer and want ...   Jan 20 2006, 18:56
- - vinouz   Wombat : note that the 7th couple, on which you fa...   Jan 20 2006, 19:05
- - Gecko   Thanks everyone who helped me understand. Especial...   Jan 20 2006, 21:22
- - zombiewerewolf   Well, it seem I'm a 100% fundamental tone hear...   Jan 21 2006, 02:53
- - Wombat   Since some people hear differences with speakers o...   Jan 21 2006, 03:09
- - gameplaya15143   same as the table except for #5 (11/12) apparently...   Jan 22 2006, 04:23
- - Hollunder   looks like I'm a fundamental one too nr. 5 is...   Feb 6 2006, 14:49
|- - breez   0/12 so according to this I'm a pure overtone ...   Feb 6 2006, 15:53
- - tgoose   12/12. Does that come from being a bass player ? O...   Feb 7 2006, 23:00
- - Sordid   12/12 - damn, I'm a fundamentalist! But ...   Feb 8 2006, 00:05
- - krabapple   I got 11/12 using headphones, though for several o...   Feb 8 2006, 20:26
- - lucy   This study really interested me. I play violin and...   Feb 6 2007, 01:03
- - hellokeith   QUOTE (benski @ Jan 19 2006, 15:17) I don...   Feb 6 2007, 01:33
- - Lyx   The main flaw in the claim they make, is that they...   Feb 6 2007, 01:41
|- - Kees de Visser   QUOTE (Lyx @ Feb 6 2007, 01:41) The main ...   Feb 6 2007, 11:02
||- - Kees de Visser   QUOTE (Kees de Visser @ Feb 6 2007, 12:02...   Dec 19 2010, 10:23
|- - mugen   QUOTE (Lyx @ Feb 5 2007, 18:41) The main ...   Feb 6 2007, 13:57
|- - Lyx   QUOTE (mugen @ Feb 6 2007, 13:57) I was s...   Feb 6 2007, 14:06
- - echo   12/12, so I guess I'm 100% fundamentalist...   Feb 6 2007, 13:45
- - jmartis   maybe a stupid question, do you have to pick the p...   Feb 6 2007, 17:43
- - Hancoque   3/12 is my result.   Aug 10 2007, 07:37
|- - sheh   Same as ref table. Looks like that's what most...   Aug 10 2007, 23:20
- - r0pfer   Hi all, I joined this forum just to join into this...   Nov 22 2010, 01:59
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (r0pfer @ Nov 21 2010, 19:59) Here ...   Nov 22 2010, 16:12
- - Rotareneg   Not hearing the 200 Hz either. I can easily pick o...   Nov 22 2010, 17:10
- - odyssey   Very interresting. I just tried the test on my gir...   Dec 19 2010, 00:28


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