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Why 24bit/48kHz/96kHz/, If 16bit/44.1kHz is good enough?
William
post Dec 29 2005, 13:45
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Yes, I have searched the forum.
Yes, maybe I am dumb.

But it seems I cannot find the answer.

Why do we need 24bit/48kHz/96kHz/192kHz if 16bit/44.1kHz is good enough? Are there any situations that 16bit/44.1kHz simply cannot satisfy? In other words, is there any real need for the higher bit depth and sampling rate?

Thanks for answering.

This post has been edited by William: Dec 29 2005, 13:47
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harlekeyn
post Apr 4 2006, 16:48
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WHEN COMPARING digital audio to digital photography,
there is nothing wrong with matching :

            • bitrate < = > color depth, and 
            • sample-frequency < = > resolution.

With a higher bitrate, you can hear the tiny sounds-shades
with more accuracy as result of more variation.
Zoomed into the sound of, say, a cricket,
in stead of hearing just a soft and distant '' c r i c k e t '',
you can distinguish '' c r I c k ê t ''.
More subtlety.

But, seeing the difference between light brown and
very slightly lighter brown is not easy.
You would have to use great concentration
and training to do so, if capable at all.

You look at a digital photo of a piece of wood.

1) The smallest details are seen because you have
    a high resolution image (compare: the sample frequency).
    It's sharp.

2) Now, the colors.
    If you would use software to increase the contrast,
    the patterns of wood grains become more obvious.
    This would be comparable to turning up the volume
    when listening to a quiet, subtle sound.

The next argument is clearly:

      Yes, all fine, but when listening to a music
      recording I cannot constantly change the volume.


Or --

      There is just a limit to my hearing.
      I -can- hear that a 4 bit recording, with
      a mere 2^4=16 possible values between loud and silent,
      is -not- enough for hearing soft, subtle background sounds.
      But, my brain and ears are limited and need no more
      than 2^16=65536 possible values between loud and silent.


                              . . . Note: I am not even sure if
                                    16 bit implies 2^16 values between
                                    +1 and -1, or between +1 and 0.
                                    Probably the former . . .

By typing the above paragraphs, I have not
succeeded at arguing one's mind does
appreciate more accuracy in amplitude.
Nor: the hypothesis that a human mind
is fast enough (read: fine enough) to prefer
a higher sample-frequency.

[ in the latter case, compare:
a digital camera with a higher mega-pixel capacity, or,
fingertips sensing silk woven with a finer thread. ]

Besides that I am still convinced I personally cán hear (feel?)
the difference between a normal audio cd and one of the
newcoming higher quality digital recordings,
the only comment I can make here is the following :

It does not suffice to blindfold people and ask if
they notice any difference between two recordings
of the same Fleetwood Mac track, one in cd-audio quality
and one in higher quality (with good speakers).

Rather, I would choose to count how many people
start to dance in a club. Or, what time they go home.
How much they enjoy it. ( <-- difficult to measure
of course, but the first two not, if done on large scale )

A final note.
      After a digital signal is analogue again,
it does not reach your ears as 'blocky' as
the digital wave form. The cone of the speaker
that produces the sound has some weight
and thus will round the sound.
      I know not enough about the kinetics and
materials (and..., and...) to say anything more
about this. Just that it is not to be overlooked.

                        Tristan Laurillard,
                        Vancouver, Canada


PS. Not everything I wrote here is verified knowledge.
Just my own understanding of these matters.
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Posts in this topic
- William   Why 24bit/48kHz/96kHz/   Dec 29 2005, 13:45
- - Lyx   QUOTE (William @ Dec 29 2005, 01:45 PM)Why do...   Dec 29 2005, 13:53
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (Lyx @ Dec 29 2005, 07:53 AM)QUOTE (Wil...   Jan 6 2006, 20:04
- - William   I heard someone saying that increasing the samplin...   Dec 29 2005, 14:09
|- - Garf   QUOTE (William @ Dec 29 2005, 03:09 PM)I hear...   Dec 29 2005, 14:13
|- - William   QUOTE (Garf @ Dec 29 2005, 01:13 PM)Normally,...   Dec 29 2005, 14:22
|- - Garf   QUOTE (William @ Dec 29 2005, 03:22 PM)Would ...   Dec 29 2005, 14:45
- - bizangoin   I totally agree with you all. Increasing sample ra...   Dec 29 2005, 14:32
- - William   I am sorry. Thanks.   Dec 29 2005, 14:59
- - singaiya   QUOTE (William @ Dec 29 2005, 04:45 AM)Why do...   Dec 29 2005, 18:44
|- - bug80   QUOTE (singaiya @ Dec 29 2005, 07:44 PM)I hav...   Dec 29 2005, 22:16
- - rosshmusic   I agree that it makes no difference to end users.....   Dec 29 2005, 21:32
|- - Garf   QUOTE (rosshmusic @ Dec 29 2005, 10:32 PM)I a...   Dec 29 2005, 21:46
|- - listen   I had a thread here: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/...   Dec 29 2005, 22:24
|- - rosshmusic   QUOTE (Garf @ Dec 29 2005, 04:46 PM)QUOTE (ro...   Dec 29 2005, 22:55
||- - Garf   QUOTE (rosshmusic @ Dec 29 2005, 11:55 PM)htt...   Dec 29 2005, 23:58
||- - rosshmusic   QUOTE (Garf @ Dec 29 2005, 06:58 PM)QUOTE (ro...   Dec 30 2005, 02:59
||- - bug80   QUOTE (rosshmusic @ Dec 30 2005, 03:59 AM)whe...   Dec 30 2005, 13:54
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (Garf @ Dec 29 2005, 03:46 PM)QUOTE (ro...   Jan 6 2006, 20:10
- - Tool462   ok, i'm a newb so don't give me some slack...   Dec 29 2005, 22:50
|- - Garf   QUOTE (Tool462 @ Dec 29 2005, 11:50 PM)ok, i...   Dec 30 2005, 00:01
- - Revliskciuq   I have to step out and disagree that there is no a...   Dec 30 2005, 03:11
|- - Garf   QUOTE (Revliskciuq @ Dec 30 2005, 04:11 AM)I ...   Dec 30 2005, 13:59
||- - jmvalin   QUOTE (Garf @ Dec 30 2005, 09:59 PM)Practise ...   Dec 31 2005, 16:22
||- - Garf   QUOTE (jmvalin @ Dec 31 2005, 05:22 PM)Actual...   Dec 31 2005, 16:31
||- - WmAx   QUOTE (jmvalin @ Dec 31 2005, 11:22 AM)but I...   Dec 31 2005, 16:33
||- - Shade[ST]   QUOTE (WmAx @ Dec 31 2005, 09:33 AM)Just to p...   Dec 31 2005, 19:25
||- - WmAx   QUOTE (Shade[ST),Dec 31 2005, 02:25 PM]QUOTE ...   Dec 31 2005, 20:52
||- - enry2k   First: What about ensuring extremely controlled li...   Jan 6 2006, 01:08
||- - Pio2001   QUOTE (William @ Dec 30 2005, 05:03 AM)And wh...   Jan 6 2006, 06:48
||- - krabapple   QUOTE (enry2k @ Jan 5 2006, 07:08 PM)First: W...   Jan 6 2006, 20:27
||- - enry2k   Thank you for quoting the thread, it is really i...   Jan 8 2006, 20:36
|- - crimsontide   QUOTE (Revliskciuq @ Dec 29 2005, 08:11 PM)I ...   Mar 13 2006, 14:36
|- - Cyaneyes   QUOTE (crimsontide @ Mar 13 2006, 08:36 AM)I ...   Mar 13 2006, 15:55
||- - crimsontide   QUOTE (Cyaneyes @ Mar 13 2006, 08:55 AM)QUOTE...   Mar 13 2006, 16:49
|- - Societal Eclipse   QUOTE (crimsontide @ Mar 13 2006, 09:36 AM)An...   Mar 13 2006, 17:40
- - William   OK, so here are some more technical questions I fo...   Dec 30 2005, 04:03
|- - probedb   QUOTE (William @ Dec 30 2005, 04:03 AM)1) The...   Jan 5 2006, 14:28
- - boombaard   so, on a slightly different note, would the 24/96 ...   Dec 30 2005, 14:24
|- - Garf   QUOTE (boombaard @ Dec 30 2005, 03:24 PM)so, ...   Dec 30 2005, 14:25
|- - boombaard   QUOTE (Garf @ Dec 30 2005, 02:25 PM)QUOTE (bo...   Dec 30 2005, 14:37
|- - Garf   QUOTE (boombaard @ Dec 30 2005, 03:37 PM)how ...   Dec 30 2005, 15:13
||- - boombaard   QUOTE (Garf @ Dec 30 2005, 03:13 PM)QUOTE (bo...   Dec 30 2005, 15:46
||- - jussi   well, and what about the HDCD (20bit) technology? ...   Dec 30 2005, 15:52
|||- - Garf   QUOTE (jussi @ Dec 30 2005, 04:52 PM)well, an...   Dec 30 2005, 16:00
||- - Garf   QUOTE (boombaard @ Dec 30 2005, 04:46 PM)QUOT...   Dec 30 2005, 15:56
|- - Crissaegrim   Definitive answer... Artists record at as high as ...   Dec 30 2005, 17:02
|- - bug80   QUOTE (Crissaegrim @ Dec 30 2005, 06:02 PM)De...   Dec 30 2005, 17:09
- - William   Well, it sounds like these 24bits / whatever kHz a...   Dec 30 2005, 15:54
- - Wintershade   Sorry for popping in like that, but here's my ...   Dec 30 2005, 16:04
|- - bug80   QUOTE (Wintershade @ Dec 30 2005, 05:04 PM)So...   Dec 30 2005, 16:25
||- - Wintershade   QUOTE (bug80 @ Dec 30 2005, 05:25 PM)Do you h...   Jan 2 2006, 12:45
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (Wintershade @ Dec 30 2005, 10:04 AM)So...   Jan 6 2006, 20:16
- - Axon   Some DSP algorithms may benefit from a high sampli...   Dec 30 2005, 19:39
- - Lyx   Regarding clipping and samplerate: according to a ...   Dec 30 2005, 19:58
|- - bug80   QUOTE (Lyx @ Dec 30 2005, 08:58 PM)Regarding ...   Dec 31 2005, 12:23
|- - Garf   QUOTE (Lyx @ Dec 30 2005, 08:58 PM)As you kno...   Dec 31 2005, 14:26
- - Raptus   >16bit would be necessary if someone wanted to ...   Dec 30 2005, 20:07
- - NoXFeR   On a sidenote; recorders may want higher frequenci...   Dec 31 2005, 00:05
|- - bug80   QUOTE (NoXFeR @ Dec 31 2005, 01:05 AM)On a si...   Dec 31 2005, 12:16
|- - NoXFeR   QUOTE (bug80 @ Dec 31 2005, 12:16 PM)QUOTE (N...   Dec 31 2005, 15:18
|- - WmAx   QUOTE (NoXFeR @ Dec 31 2005, 10:18 AM)The poi...   Dec 31 2005, 15:29
- - Lyx   One more reason to instead simply use proper level...   Dec 31 2005, 12:33
|- - bug80   QUOTE (Lyx @ Dec 31 2005, 01:33 PM)One more r...   Dec 31 2005, 13:33
|- - Garf   QUOTE (bug80 @ Dec 31 2005, 02:33 PM)QUOTE (L...   Dec 31 2005, 14:20
|- - bug80   QUOTE (Garf @ Dec 31 2005, 03:20 PM)QUOTE (bu...   Dec 31 2005, 14:23
|- - Garf   QUOTE (bug80 @ Dec 31 2005, 03:23 PM)QUOTE (G...   Dec 31 2005, 14:31
- - kwwong   The main reason why sampling rates > 44.1Khz is...   Dec 31 2005, 14:30
|- - Garf   QUOTE (kwwong @ Dec 31 2005, 03:30 PM)The mai...   Dec 31 2005, 14:41
||- - kwwong   QUOTE (Garf @ Dec 31 2005, 07:41 AM)QUOTE (kw...   Jan 1 2006, 04:30
||- - kwwong   QUOTE (kwwong @ Dec 31 2005, 09:30 PM)QUOTE (...   Jan 1 2006, 04:39
|- - WmAx   QUOTE (kwwong @ Dec 31 2005, 09:30 AM)As for ...   Dec 31 2005, 15:39
- - Garf   Another thing to consider is that with proper dith...   Dec 31 2005, 14:51
|- - marcan   QUOTE (Garf @ Dec 31 2005, 05:51 AM)Another t...   Jan 5 2006, 15:57
|- - enry2k   QUOTE (marcan @ Jan 5 2006, 06:57 AM)QUOTE (G...   Jan 8 2006, 21:28
|- - Garf   QUOTE (marcan @ Jan 5 2006, 04:57 PM)QUOTE (G...   Jan 10 2006, 12:33
- - Garf   I think what he's trying to say is this: If y...   Dec 31 2005, 15:31
- - Lyx   I think he means playing 192khz sample at 44khz WI...   Dec 31 2005, 15:31
- - ivalladt   QUOTE (Garf @ Dec 29 2005, 03:13 PM)The quest...   Dec 31 2005, 19:13
- - dekkersj   QUOTE (Garf @ Dec 31 2005, 02:51 PM)Another t...   Jan 2 2006, 15:41
- - Qjimbo   Ok, back to the original question of the thread. T...   Jan 9 2006, 00:20
|- - Lyx   QUOTE (Qjimbo @ Jan 9 2006, 12:20 AM)Firstly ...   Jan 9 2006, 16:17
|- - marcan   QUOTE (Lyx @ Jan 9 2006, 07:17 AM)QUOTE (Qjim...   Jan 9 2006, 17:59
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (Lyx @ Jan 9 2006, 07:17 AM)This thread...   Jan 10 2006, 00:38
|- - Garf   QUOTE (Woodinville @ Jan 10 2006, 01:38 AM)We...   Jan 10 2006, 12:42
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (Garf @ Jan 10 2006, 03:42 AM)QUOTE (Wo...   Jan 10 2006, 23:41
- - CSMR   Somehow this question brings out all the know-alls...   Jan 9 2006, 01:52
- - AndyH-ha   The Sampling Theorem says that signals containing ...   Jan 9 2006, 08:28
|- - bug80   QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jan 9 2006, 09:28 AM)T...   Jan 9 2006, 10:19
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jan 8 2006, 11:28 PM)T...   Jan 10 2006, 00:41
- - AndyH-ha   My immediately available source is Principles of D...   Jan 9 2006, 18:02
|- - SebastianG   QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jan 9 2006, 06:02 PM)o...   Jan 9 2006, 18:30
- - stephanV   @crimsontide: You can never prove a negative. The...   Mar 13 2006, 17:49
|- - crimsontide   QUOTE (stephanV @ Mar 13 2006, 10:49 AM)@crim...   Mar 13 2006, 18:32
- - harlekeyn   16bit means 2^16 = 65536 possible values for each ...   Mar 19 2006, 06:58
|- - Pio2001   QUOTE (harlekeyn @ Mar 19 2006, 07:58 AM)If y...   Mar 19 2006, 22:07
|- - crimsontide   Well I agree with what Tristan said – For example ...   Mar 20 2006, 11:03
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (crimsontide @ Mar 20 2006, 02:03 AM)I ...   Mar 20 2006, 21:19
- - harlekeyn   WHEN COMPARING digital audio to digital photograph...   Apr 4 2006, 16:48
- - benski   With somewhat expensive studio equipment (RME Hamm...   Apr 4 2006, 16:56
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