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48 kbps listening test, pretest discussion thread, Pretest thread / Encoder settings
Shade[ST]
post Dec 12 2005, 17:06
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Hello!

After assisting like many of you on the controversy of guruboolez' tests concerning the Nero AAC encoders and having seen many suggestions towards preparing a listening test around 48kbps - in particular with the different HE encoders, I decided to take matters into my own hands.
I currently have 8 samples testing for tonality, transients and stereo separation. These are generally classical music, but also include electronic music, 80s pop, and I might add a jazz recording for ambience reproduction.
As for encoders, I'm stumped.

Should I also include an old version of nero (old being relative) as to see the progress in a general evaluation ? At this bitrate, many encoders is not really a problem, is it? For now, I was thinking :

-Nero AAC Tape / PNS Enabled / HE / High (Should I enable hint track?)
-Ogg Vorbis, latest AoTuV, q -2 to -4 (whatever's approximately the same bitrates ~42-53)
-Lame ABR 48 (any tunings suggested?)
-mp3pro, probably, at any close bitrate I can achieve (adobe audition's encoder)
-Itunes AAC (HE if available)
-CT encoder (winamp 5.12) 48kbps, HE.

If I should use an older nero as well, where can I find it?

Also, could anyone help me prepare the ABC/HR logs? (eg, Sebastian Mares)
Thanks in advance,
Tristan.
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Ivan Dimkovic
post Dec 13 2005, 14:17
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Nero MPEG4 developer


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QUOTE
You are kidding right?


I wish - but reading the usual lisetning test rants I got that feeling smile.gif

Anyway - I am discussing this matter with another well known name in audio compression, as he initally proposed idea of teaming up for such test - if he agrees, we might do this together and make the test even better.

QUOTE
As long as results are reproducible (if we now, or in the soon future, can use an encoder to create the files that were tested)and the selection of samples is transparent and open for discussion, I can't see any reason why it would hurt the credibility of the test if the names where revealed.


Well... smile.gif I agree on all that, but nevertheless we might have some wise guys claiming that someone here "biased" the test towards something - which I clearly woudln't ever do.

Anyway I also think a very high level of transparencu could be achieved if:

a) Encoders are available to everyone
b) Encoded bitstream verification is done by few people

c) Optionally, that the selection of the samples comes after the encoders were released (to avoid doubts that encoders were "produced" for the sample sent), or to provide clear and transparent way of selecting samples.

QUOTE
The reason I'm bringing this up is two-fold:

1. The results will be less interesting and people might feel less inclined to participate. (assuming your test is open for us)


Good point. Taken smile.gif

QUOTE
2. Technology and implementation are not always very separable. For example, you can't conclude that MP3 is a better technology than Vorbis or AAC by comparing LAME with a very bad AAC or Vorbis encoder. I don't know if this comparison holds also when it comes to SBR and PS, but it would be something to consider I think.


Actually we would compare two state-of-the-art HE-AAC v1 and v2 solutions - so the test cannot be wrong with that regard.

This post has been edited by Ivan Dimkovic: Dec 13 2005, 14:18
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Posts in this topic
- Shade[ST]   48 kbps listening test, pretest discussion thread   Dec 12 2005, 17:06
- - guruboolez   Is it a collective listening test or a personal ex...   Dec 12 2005, 17:10
|- - Shade[ST]   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Dec 12 2005, 10:10 AM)Is ...   Dec 12 2005, 17:14
- - guruboolez   Isn't it a bit premature to start a new pretes...   Dec 12 2005, 17:16
- - Ivan Dimkovic   If it is a collective test, may I ask for delaying...   Dec 12 2005, 17:16
|- - Shade[ST]   QUOTE (Ivan Dimkovic @ Dec 12 2005, 10:16 AM)...   Dec 12 2005, 17:20
|- - naylor83   QUOTE (Shade[ST] @ Dec 12 2005, 06:2...   Dec 12 2005, 17:46
- - Sebastian Mares   I think the whole thing is too rushed. Personally,...   Dec 12 2005, 17:52
|- - naylor83   QUOTE (Sebastian Mares @ Dec 12 2005, 06:52 P...   Dec 12 2005, 18:22
||- - Sebastian Mares   QUOTE (naylor83 @ Dec 12 2005, 06:22 PM)QUOTE...   Dec 12 2005, 18:24
||- - naylor83   QUOTE (Sebastian Mares @ Dec 12 2005, 07:24 P...   Dec 12 2005, 18:34
||- - Shade[ST]   I was thinking maybe about making LAME the low anc...   Dec 12 2005, 21:20
|- - user   QUOTE (Sebastian Mares @ Dec 12 2005, 05:52 P...   Dec 14 2005, 12:00
- - Sebastian Mares   Regarding the encoders again - personally, I would...   Dec 12 2005, 18:32
|- - Latexxx   I'd personally drop mp3pro because its margina...   Dec 12 2005, 21:35
|- - dimzon   QUOTE (Latexxx @ Dec 13 2005, 12:35 AM) mp3 (...   Dec 13 2005, 09:38
- - Gambit   With all respect, Shade[ST], this is a really bad ...   Dec 12 2005, 21:17
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Shade[ST] @ Dec 12 2005, 02:2...   Dec 13 2005, 00:46
|- - Shade[ST]   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Dec 12 2005, 05:46 PM)QUOTE...   Dec 13 2005, 04:07
|- - naylor83   QUOTE (Shade[ST] @ Dec 13 2005, 05:0...   Dec 13 2005, 10:10
- - Ivan Dimkovic   QUOTE don't forget about 3GP reference encoder...   Dec 13 2005, 10:42
|- - dimzon   QUOTE (Ivan Dimkovic @ Dec 13 2005, 01:42 PM)...   Dec 13 2005, 17:20
- - Gabriel   My opinions is that it could be a good idea to fir...   Dec 13 2005, 12:51
- - Ivan Dimkovic   But @Gabriel, do you think that the 32kbps resutls...   Dec 13 2005, 13:13
|- - stephanV   QUOTE (Ivan Dimkovic @ Dec 13 2005, 01:13 PM)...   Dec 13 2005, 14:05
- - Ivan Dimkovic   QUOTE You are kidding right? I wish - but reading...   Dec 13 2005, 14:17
|- - Shade[ST]   Any word of yet as to how any of these tests are g...   Dec 13 2005, 16:10
- - Ivan Dimkovic   QUOTE Any word of yet as to how any of these tests...   Dec 13 2005, 17:34
|- - IgorC   It wil be good to see not only music samples but a...   Dec 13 2005, 19:40
|- - Halcyon   Before you start any test, I suggest you take the ...   Dec 13 2005, 21:24
- - Ivan Dimkovic   Gabriel and I discussed these ideas - and we will ...   Dec 14 2005, 12:43
- - fpi   Before testing aoTuV beta 4.51 would be interestin...   Dec 14 2005, 16:45
- - gameplaya15143   QUOTE (fpi @ Dec 14 2005, 10:45 AM)Before tes...   Jan 18 2006, 04:15
- - pepoluan   Ahhh... the thread has been resurrected So. Is...   Jan 19 2006, 17:51


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