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WMPTSE, WMP plug-in allows extended tag support
MaB_fr
post Nov 25 2006, 23:50
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QUOTE (Greenbeast @ Nov 25 2006, 20:05) *
anyone got any tips for using this with wmp11?

i seem to have two states of operation

if it recognises the information like album track and artist it takes away my time information and progress bar and still doesn't send the artist info to MSN messenger

but if i turn it off and open/add files then i just get file name but i do get my progress bar and track length

any ideas?


Seems like a collision with the directshow codec...

Only the directshow codec can return the track length info (and of course enable the progress bar)...
The MSNMessenger problem is strange...I'll investigate this one...

I had numerous report of conflict between WMPTSE and buggy dshow codec...

If you can, try another codec for your filetype...See if the behaviour is the same...
If not, report to the dshow developper.

MaB_fr
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Greenbeast
post Nov 26 2006, 11:27
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QUOTE (MaB_fr @ Nov 25 2006, 22:50) *
QUOTE (Greenbeast @ Nov 25 2006, 20:05) *

anyone got any tips for using this with wmp11?

i seem to have two states of operation

if it recognises the information like album track and artist it takes away my time information and progress bar and still doesn't send the artist info to MSN messenger

but if i turn it off and open/add files then i just get file name but i do get my progress bar and track length

any ideas?


Seems like a collision with the directshow codec...

Only the directshow codec can return the track length info (and of course enable the progress bar)...
The MSNMessenger problem is strange...I'll investigate this one...

I had numerous report of conflict between WMPTSE and buggy dshow codec...

If you can, try another codec for your filetype...See if the behaviour is the same...
If not, report to the dshow developper.

MaB_fr



ok thankyou i will try that
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Greenbeast
post Nov 26 2006, 12:10
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i tried installing the coreflac dshow filters instead of illiminable but that removed the option to play flac altogether, although i could still physically play them it didn't recognise flac as a valid audio format

and the taggin wan't any better
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MaB_fr
post Nov 26 2006, 13:53
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QUOTE (Greenbeast @ Nov 26 2006, 12:10) *
i tried installing the coreflac dshow filters instead of illiminable but that removed the option to play flac altogether, although i could still physically play them it didn't recognise flac as a valid audio format


What do you mean by "didn't recognise flac as a valid audio format" ?

In the "add file" dialog box ?
When you drag a file into the Media Library ?
When you double-click on the explorer ?
...

There's so much way for a file to be recognised as an audio file that i beg you to be more precise smile.gif

QUOTE (Greenbeast @ Nov 26 2006, 12:10) *
and the taggin wan't any better


Hum, in which way ?

MaB_fr
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Greenbeast
post Nov 26 2006, 14:28
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well the coreflac doesn't seem to actually add anything to wmp, wmp doesn't have flac listed as a valid file type and if i scan a folder it won't add any files from it

so its obviously not installing correctly or doesn't work with wmp11 cos that behavour is the same as when ntohing is installed

when i say the taggin wasn't any better means i am getting the same behaviour as before
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MaB_fr
post Nov 26 2006, 22:14
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QUOTE (Greenbeast @ Nov 26 2006, 14:28) *
well the coreflac doesn't seem to actually add anything to wmp, wmp doesn't have flac listed as a valid file type and if i scan a folder it won't add any files from it

so its obviously not installing correctly or doesn't work with wmp11 cos that behavour is the same as when ntohing is installed

when i say the taggin wasn't any better means i am getting the same behaviour as before


You must not mix three things :

1) the directshow codec is responsible for rendering a stream of data to a sound, (and often it is responsible to make 2)

2) some registry parameters are needed to add filetype support in WMP (but only on the UI side of things), especially in MediaLibrary

3) WMPTSE handles the meta tags and force WMP to recognise those tags...(at install, it also forces filetype support for flac, ape, and such, as a "smoothing usability for all" politic)

So CoreFLAC, as a directshow codec, is not obligated to do the registry editing needed for a complete "filetype" support. These action are not well documented by Microsoft and most of the directshow codecs forget to do the extra work...

But if you reinstall WMPTSE (v > 1.1), it should force those values...And you should end up with FLAC completely supported in WMP11...At least if the install works correctly...

Let me know if it's ok ...


MaB_fr
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Jebus
post Dec 1 2006, 02:59
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Would you consider this request, then?

Right now (looking at the code) the FLAC component doesn't seem to handle WMP's "Release Year" field at all. WMP11 at least only has this field. No simple "year" at all. Could you have it return the YEAR tag as RELEASE YEAR?
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MaB_fr
post Dec 1 2006, 13:18
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QUOTE (Jebus @ Dec 1 2006, 02:59) *
Would you consider this request, then?

Right now (looking at the code) the FLAC component doesn't seem to handle WMP's "Release Year" field at all. WMP11 at least only has this field. No simple "year" at all. Could you have it return the YEAR tag as RELEASE YEAR?


If should be no problem...Is YEAR a official standard FLAC tag ?

MaB_fr
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Greenbeast
post Dec 1 2006, 13:35
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right i've reinstalled the illiminable codec and the wpmtse v1.1.1

i'm still getting the same behaviour
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OffColour
post Dec 1 2006, 14:55
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Hi MaB_fr,

I've got a version of the FlagTagSupport dll that uses Artist instead of album artist and Jebus is using it quite happily.

It's available for download from my website (hidden), but I don't want to put it out there for general consumption and have it get confused with your version.

Any thoughts on making it available?

Gary

BTW, still working on an AVI Riff TAGSupport dll. Might get it finished one day :-)

This post has been edited by OffColour: Dec 1 2006, 14:56
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grommet
post Dec 1 2006, 18:36
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QUOTE (MaB_fr @ Dec 1 2006, 04:18) *
If should be no problem...Is YEAR a official standard FLAC tag ?

MaB_fr
No, DATE is more common in FLAC or Vorbis land. (One of the "proposed minimal list of standard field names.") But, as we all know, there is no real enforced standard on usage.

This post has been edited by grommet: Dec 1 2006, 18:37
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Jebus
post Dec 1 2006, 18:47
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QUOTE (grommet @ Dec 1 2006, 09:36) *
QUOTE (MaB_fr @ Dec 1 2006, 04:18) *

If should be no problem...Is YEAR a official standard FLAC tag ?

MaB_fr
No, DATE is more common in FLAC or Vorbis land. (One of the "proposed minimal list of standard field names.") But, as we all know, there is no real enforced standard on usage.


and DATE would be fine as well. I know Tag.exe uses DATE... is there even an official list of vorbis tags? I didn't think there was...

Just as long as SOMETHING gets passed to WMP for the year, i'd be happy smile.gif
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MaB_fr
post Dec 1 2006, 21:46
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QUOTE (Jebus @ Dec 1 2006, 18:47) *
QUOTE (grommet @ Dec 1 2006, 09:36) *

QUOTE (MaB_fr @ Dec 1 2006, 04:18) *

If should be no problem...Is YEAR a official standard FLAC tag ?

MaB_fr
No, DATE is more common in FLAC or Vorbis land. (One of the "proposed minimal list of standard field names.") But, as we all know, there is no real enforced standard on usage.


and DATE would be fine as well. I know Tag.exe uses DATE... is there even an official list of vorbis tags? I didn't think there was...

Just as long as SOMETHING gets passed to WMP for the year, i'd be happy smile.gif


Hum, is DATE a full date field ? If so, we'll go with YEAR as parsing a full date is always a sensible subject (say hi to the bazaar...you can read some of my older post for an harsh view of my opinion on this [search for vorbis write support]).

QUOTE
Hi MaB_fr,

I've got a version of the FlagTagSupport dll that uses Artist instead of album artist and Jebus is using it quite happily.

It's available for download from my website (hidden), but I don't want to put it out there for general consumption and have it get confused with your version.

Any thoughts on making it available?

Gary

BTW, still working on an AVI Riff TAGSupport dll. Might get it finished one day :-)


Good luck with AVI riff tags. Let us know when you begin to have something usable, quite a bunch of user are interested in this.

For the modified FlacTagSupport.dll, i'm thinking about publishing it directly on the SourceForge website.
To avoid confusion, I'll ask you to rename it with something like "FlacTagSupport.Variant.Artist.dll". I'll then publish your file (and the code, if you like) in the "wmptagext Tag Support DLL" section.

QUOTE
right i've reinstalled the illiminable codec and the wpmtse v1.1.1

i'm still getting the same behaviour


What behaviour ? the "no filetype support" problem, or the "no time or length" problem ? Can you add it to your Media Library ? The more precise you are, the easier it become to help you.

MaB_fr
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Jebus
post Dec 2 2006, 00:08
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The vorbis comments specification suggests DATE, but also says that additional fields are perfectly acceptible (this is a minimal recommendation). Tag.exe seems to follow the specs to a tee though. It is worth pointing out that your ALBUMARTIST field is non-standard, according to the specs. smile.gif

Because no format is suggested for DATE, i'd propose you simply check for a 4-char DATE tag containing all numbers, and if it doesn't exist or is invalid, look for YEAR instead (or just return nothing - your call).

Regarding the "Artist" vs "Album Artist" thing, I still think that a simple "if (AlbumArtist == null) then AlbumArtist = Artist;" (disclamer: pseudocode) would work for everyone involved, and would be preferable to code forking. But hey, your opinion wins, since its your baby! Out of curiosity though, what taggers/apps actually write/look for this "ALBUMARTIST" tag?

I know you're concerned with performance, but I seriously doubt any tangible performance impact would occur due to the 2 switches I proposed. All of this of course applies to both FLAC and Vorbis files.

----

And I am very glad to have this tool, by the way! Playing FLAC through my media center extender kicks ass!

This post has been edited by Jebus: Dec 2 2006, 03:30
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Greenbeast
post Dec 2 2006, 10:00
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i can add it to the library (and play it) and i get information in wmp, but i get no track time (or progress bar) and the artist still doesn't go across to msn messenger
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grommet
post Dec 2 2006, 12:26
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QUOTE (Jebus @ Dec 1 2006, 15:08) *
Out of curiosity though, what taggers/apps actually write/look for this "ALBUMARTIST" tag?
I haven't quite kept track of how each application writes... since many just let you enter any text tag, I tend to not care. (The whole Album Artist grouping logic has only recently become a bit more mainstream; most applications didn't bother. Quite sad.)

As for "reading", I know at least one "big media application" that uses the ALBUMARTIST for APE/Vorbis/FLAC: Slimserver. The Sonos ZonePlayer product does, too. (I think Sonos actually tries multiple tag names... due to the lack of standards.)

Yes, as I mentioned earlier in this thread... having WMPTSE populate WMP's Album Artist field with the (Normal) Artist if no Album Artist metadata is in a track would be ideal... and would match the standard browsing logic.

This post has been edited by grommet: Dec 2 2006, 12:40
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MaB_fr
post Dec 2 2006, 14:13
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QUOTE (Jebus @ Dec 2 2006, 00:08) *
The vorbis comments specification suggests DATE, but also says that additional fields are perfectly acceptible (this is a minimal recommendation). Tag.exe seems to follow the specs to a tee though. It is worth pointing out that your ALBUMARTIST field is non-standard, according to the specs. smile.gif

Because no format is suggested for DATE, i'd propose you simply check for a 4-char DATE tag containing all numbers, and if it doesn't exist or is invalid, look for YEAR instead (or just return nothing - your call).

Regarding the "Artist" vs "Album Artist" thing, I still think that a simple "if (AlbumArtist == null) then AlbumArtist = Artist;" (disclamer: pseudocode) would work for everyone involved, and would be preferable to code forking. But hey, your opinion wins, since its your baby! Out of curiosity though, what taggers/apps actually write/look for this "ALBUMARTIST" tag?

I know you're concerned with performance, but I seriously doubt any tangible performance impact would occur due to the 2 switches I proposed. All of this of course applies to both FLAC and Vorbis files.

----

And I am very glad to have this tool, by the way! Playing FLAC through my media center extender kicks ass!


In fact, i do not use FLAC, so i'm completely dependent of users for this...BECAUSE there's no standard.

And as i look through the FLACTagSupport.dll code, i see no reason the "ARTIST" tag is not treated as "WM/AlbumArtist". Maybe you've got an old version...try 1.1.1 it should be in ! Or replace by the one in the Tag Support DLL section of the website.

CODE
if( _strcmpi( lpcFLACMetaData, FLACTAG_KEY_ARTIST ) == 0 )
    return WMP_TAG_ALBUMARTIST;


Or may be you'll get a "multiple tag for the same WM/tag" problem...In its current state, FLACTagSupport.dll handles THREE different tagging for WM/AlbumArtist : "ARTIST", "ALBUM ARTIST" and "ALBUMARTIST".

The trick is, only the last one in the file will win !!

So the result is : who is complainning about ARTIST tag. And WHAT's the problem ?

For DATE, why not, will other users be ok with a DATE field with only a year number inside ?
The YEAR tag seems to be OK and will be in in the next release.


MaB_fr

...Ooone Daaay as standaaaard will cooome, it will take WMPTSE in his harms and horse ride through the sunset...ahum...ahum...sorry...

This post has been edited by MaB_fr: Dec 2 2006, 14:14
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goodnews
post Dec 2 2006, 14:20
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Any plans to support the new FLAC LYRICS tag and ALBUM ART tags as released in the new FLAC 1.1.3 release?
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MaB_fr
post Dec 2 2006, 14:27
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QUOTE (goodnews @ Dec 2 2006, 14:20) *
Any plans to support the new FLAC LYRICS tag and ALBUM ART tags as released in the new FLAC 1.1.3 release?


Lyrics should be no problem...except that is an Advanced Tag Editor feature...I surely can add the tag data in WMP, but will WMP handles it correctly, that's the question...

Album art and generally, "non-textual" tags are a 2.0 feature...

MaB_fr

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grommet
post Dec 5 2006, 06:51
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QUOTE (MaB_fr @ Dec 2 2006, 05:13) *
Or may be you'll get a "multiple tag for the same WM/tag" problem...In its current state, FLACTagSupport.dll handles THREE different tagging for WM/AlbumArtist : "ARTIST", "ALBUM ARTIST" and "ALBUMARTIST".

The trick is, only the last one in the file will win !!
That's really what it does?! Unless I set ALBUMARTIST, I also don't see it set in WMP. I see the ARTIST tag populate the "normal" Artist ("Contributing" artist, aka Author internally for WMA)... which is what I consider correct behavior.

If it did work like that, it woud really mess me up... since ARTIST and ALBUMARTIST are different on plenty of my content. (I also have multiple ARTIST/COMPOSER on many track entries, but you've documented that missing functionality.)

So, if that's really what it does in the current release... What populates normal Artist for FLAC/Vorbis if it's not ARTIST?

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MaB_fr
post Dec 5 2006, 13:16
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QUOTE (grommet @ Dec 5 2006, 06:51) *
QUOTE (MaB_fr @ Dec 2 2006, 05:13) *

Or may be you'll get a "multiple tag for the same WM/tag" problem...In its current state, FLACTagSupport.dll handles THREE different tagging for WM/AlbumArtist : "ARTIST", "ALBUM ARTIST" and "ALBUMARTIST".

The trick is, only the last one in the file will win !!
That's really what it does?! Unless I set ALBUMARTIST, I also don't see it set in WMP. I see the ARTIST tag populate the "normal" Artist ("Contributing" artist, aka Author internally for WMA)... which is what I consider correct behavior.

If it did work like that, it woud really mess me up... since ARTIST and ALBUMARTIST are different on plenty of my content. (I also have multiple ARTIST/COMPOSER on many track entries, but you've documented that missing functionality.)

So, if that's really what it does in the current release... What populates normal Artist for FLAC/Vorbis if it's not ARTIST?


There's no such thing as Artist in WMP....That's the problem...(see http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/aa385212.aspx)

In its current state, FLACTagSupport.dll handles :
CODE
if( _strcmpi( lpcFLACMetaData, FLACTAG_KEY_PERFORMER ) == 0 )
        return WMP_TAG_AUTHOR;

PERFORMER as Author.

And COMPOSER as WM/Composer, CONDUCTOR as WM/Conductor, PUBLISHER as WM/Publisher

MaB_fr

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grommet
post Dec 5 2006, 19:19
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QUOTE (MaB_fr @ Dec 5 2006, 04:16) *
There's no such thing as Artist in WMP....That's the problem...(see http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/aa385212.aspx)

In its current state, FLACTagSupport.dll handles :
CODE
if( _strcmpi( lpcFLACMetaData, FLACTAG_KEY_PERFORMER ) == 0 )
        return WMP_TAG_AUTHOR;

PERFORMER as Author.

And COMPOSER as WM/Composer, CONDUCTOR as WM/Conductor, PUBLISHER as WM/Publisher

MaB_fr
Yes, I know that the WMP UI (Contributing) Artist is stored as Author internally in the container. (I mentioned that in my message.) Either way, for music... it should be referred to as "Artist"... as all WMF related UIs do that.

In mainstream use, the FLAC/Vorbis ARTIST should really get mapped to Artist inside WMP (Author internally). That really is the closest match. ARTIST = Artist, just like ID3 TPE1 = Artist.

For FLAC/Vorbis, the majority of applications out there use ARTIST (and not PERFORMER) as the traditional "Artist" in the UI. To my knowledge, that's as close to standard as you can get.
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MaB_fr
post Dec 6 2006, 00:47
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QUOTE (grommet @ Dec 5 2006, 19:19) *
QUOTE (MaB_fr @ Dec 5 2006, 04:16) *
There's no such thing as Artist in WMP....That's the problem...(see http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/aa385212.aspx)

In its current state, FLACTagSupport.dll handles :
CODE
if( _strcmpi( lpcFLACMetaData, FLACTAG_KEY_PERFORMER ) == 0 )
        return WMP_TAG_AUTHOR;

PERFORMER as Author.

And COMPOSER as WM/Composer, CONDUCTOR as WM/Conductor, PUBLISHER as WM/Publisher

MaB_fr
Yes, I know that the WMP UI (Contributing) Artist is stored as Author internally in the container. (I mentioned that in my message.) Either way, for music... it should be referred to as "Artist"... as all WMF related UIs do that.

In mainstream use, the FLAC/Vorbis ARTIST should really get mapped to Artist inside WMP (Author internally). That really is the closest match. ARTIST = Artist, just like ID3 TPE1 = Artist.

For FLAC/Vorbis, the majority of applications out there use ARTIST (and not PERFORMER) as the traditional "Artist" in the UI. To my knowledge, that's as close to standard as you can get.


I won't change that behavior again after that one, so please, be sure it is the right one...

Last call, make your choices....

MaB_fr
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grommet
post Dec 6 2006, 01:00
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If ARTIST populates "Artist" (Author), and if ALBUMARTIST (or ALBUM ARTIST in some camps) populates "Album Artist" (WM/AlbumArtist) if it exists... that would be the most logical conversion.

And, as mentioned earlier... if ALBUMARTIST (or ALBUM ARTIST) does not exist... WM/AlbumArtist should be populated with what ARTIST has for maximum compatibility. (WM/AlbumArtist especially needs to be there for Windows Media Center customers... without it, it's a total mess.)

Any other feedback, folks?

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tempnegro
post Dec 6 2006, 06:00
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Yea, year is confirmed not working? None of them are showing up...............great plugin though and it supports writing tags which is great!!!

Thank you!
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