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WMPTSE, WMP plug-in allows extended tag support
jacktwist
post Jan 21 2006, 21:47
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I uninstalled the CoreFlac decoder I was using and installed the illiminable's oggcodecs smile.gif

I am still getting a few crashes in WMP while editing and stuff. I am only able to edit flac files by choosing 'find album info'. Advanced tag editor functions are not available to me for flac audio files. sad.gif Anyway, I am now able to view album info, file names etc while in MCE2005. I am also able to stop and pause flac audio... I was unable to do this using the CoreFlacDecoder which caused crashes like mentioned in a previous post.

When WMP does crash (usually only while editing flac files) it asks to shutdown the active plugins which I have to reenable. I am getting errors in ntdll.dll as well as flactagdecoder.dll(?) so I am not sure what is up with that. Maybe you will have it all fixed in your 1.0 release smile.gif

Thanks for the assistance... things seem to mostly be up and running. I will definitely keep you updated on the frequency of any crashes I might receive while using WMPTSE smile.gif

Oh yeah: Yes: There's room for LOTS of improvement within MCE2005. More flexible coding to allow different programs to provide different services instead of relying on Microsoft to support every format smile.gif
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MaB_fr
post Jan 23 2006, 12:21
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QUOTE (jacktwist @ Jan 21 2006, 09:47 PM)
I uninstalled the CoreFlac decoder I was using and installed the illiminable's oggcodecs smile.gif

I am still getting a few crashes in WMP while editing and stuff. I am only able to edit flac files by choosing 'find album info'. Advanced tag editor functions are not available to me for flac audio files. sad.gif Anyway, I am now able to view album info, file names etc while in MCE2005. I am also able to stop and pause flac audio... I was unable to do this using the CoreFlacDecoder which caused crashes like mentioned in a previous post.

When WMP does crash (usually only while editing flac files) it asks to shutdown the active plugins which I have to reenable. I am getting errors in ntdll.dll as well as flactagdecoder.dll(?) so I am not sure what is up with that. Maybe you will have it all fixed in your 1.0 release smile.gif

Thanks for the assistance... things seem to mostly be up and running. I will definitely keep you updated on the frequency of any crashes I might receive while using WMPTSE smile.gif

Oh yeah: Yes: There's room for LOTS of improvement within MCE2005. More flexible coding to allow different programs to provide different services instead of relying on Microsoft to support every format smile.gif
*


facltagdecoder.dll is not one of my library....There's no reason it should be linked to WMPSTE crashing.....

That's very weird...

MaB_fr
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jacktwist
post Jan 24 2006, 23:18
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Sorry, I was trying to recall the error from memory, shouldn't do that. It is actually happening in flactagsupport.dll, and ntdll.dll. I received the errors again on a different system (XP Pro) without MCE installed.

It happens when selecting any of these options in WMPTSE: 'auto-refresh on start/add' / 'Add metatag if not already present'

With the above options enabled, WMP crashes upon selecting any library object, or opening any file as well as upon re-start after enabling those features. When WMP opens up the next time, the WMPTSE plugin is disabled.

I am able to select: 'Allow auto-tagging on untagged files' without issues...


Sorry to have not gotten back to you sooner, but I had been busy smile.gif
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MaB_fr
post Jan 25 2006, 17:04
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No problem....

The file you ripped before entering them in WMP where tagged by what program ?

It seems you get an incompatibility between my version of the FLAC tag library, and your files....

Did you ID3 tagged these files ? Did you use some special encoder features ? Or an old ripper may be....?

MaB_fr
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jacktwist
post Jan 25 2006, 20:16
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I originally had the entire Rush catalog ripped to flac using flac110... I do not recall the ripper. I renamed those files using the latest version of foobar2000.

I since started encoding thhe rest of my CD library using nothing but Foobar2000... the method is basically: open cd files, get freedb info, convert to flac112, but i think foobar is using flac111. Anyway. One problem I notice is when the flacFrontend did encoding, it didn't always guess tag names correct.

Crashes mostly only happen when using the cpu features, or allow meta-tag on untagged files. Using only 'allow re-tagging' causes no crash...
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MaB_fr
post Jan 26 2006, 04:54
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QUOTE (jacktwist @ Jan 25 2006, 08:16 PM)
I originally had the entire Rush catalog ripped to flac using flac110... I do not recall  the ripper. I renamed those files using the latest version of foobar2000.

I since started encoding thhe rest of my CD library using nothing but Foobar2000... the method is basically: open cd files, get freedb info, convert to flac112, but i think foobar is using flac111. Anyway. One problem I notice is when the flacFrontend did encoding, it didn't always guess tag names correct.

Crashes mostly only happen when using the cpu features, or allow meta-tag on untagged files. Using only 'allow re-tagging' causes no crash...
*


It really seems like your files are tagged in a format that the flac library can't read...i will install foobar and try it myself.

On a second note, i, once and for all, will expose here the standard i rely on for the tagging politics :

---- For every APEv2 tagged files (wavpack, monkey audio, etc...) -----
The correspondances are :
APETag => WMP Entry

"Title" => Title
"Subtitle" => WM/Subtitle
"Artist" => Author
"Album" => WM/AlbumTitle
"AlbumArtist" => WM/AlbumArtist
"Publisher" => WM/Publisher
"Conductor" => WM/Conductor
"Composer" => WM/Composer
"Comment" => MoreInfo
"Year" => WM/Year
"Track" => WM/TrackNumber
"Genre" => WM/Genre
"Lyrics" => WM/Lyrics
"Copyright" => Copyright
"Publicationright" => WM/Publisher
"ISRC" => WM/MCDI
"Buy URL" = > BuyNow
"Publisher URL" => ProviderURL


---- For every FLAC tagged files -----
The correspondances are :
FLACTag => WMP Entry

"TITLE" => Title
"ALBUMARTIST" => WM/AlbumArtist
"ALBUM" => WM/AlbumTitle
"TRACKNUMBER" => WM/TrackNumber
"ARTIST" => Author
"PERFORMER" => WM/AlbumArtist
"COPYRIGHT" => Copyright
"ORGANIZATION" => WM/Publisher
"DESCRIPTION" => MoreInfo
"GENRE" => WM/Genre
"LOCATION" => ProviderURL
"ISRC" => WM/MCDI
"YEAR" => WM/Year
"COMPOSER" => WM/Composer
"CONDUCTOR" => WM/Conductor
"PUBLISHER" => WM/Publisher


---- For every Vorbis tagged files -----
The correspondances are :
Vorbis tag => WMP Entry

"TITLE" => Title
"ALBUMARTIST" => WM/AlbumArtist
"ALBUM" => WM/AlbumTitle
"TRACKNUMBER" => WM/TrackNumber
"ARTIST" => Author
"PERFORMER" => WM/AlbumArtist
"COPYRIGHT" => Copyright
"ORGANIZATION" => WM/Publisher
"DESCRIPTION" => MoreInfo
"GENRE" => WM/Genre
"LOCATION" => ProviderURL
"ISRC" => WM/MCDI
"YEAR" => WM/Year

I used the doc available on the net...If someone found any mistake or wants some modification (it will be argumented then), you're free to try smile.gif

Until further notice, these standards are CASE-SENSITIVE (as all format documentation want it to be).
Which means that non-standard formatting of tag name (like "album" for every file, or "Album" for vorbis tagged files) are NOT handled !

It may enlights some problems....

MaB_fr

This post has been edited by MaB_fr: Jan 26 2006, 05:42
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jacktwist
post Jan 26 2006, 05:25
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Not sure what is up but things are definitely since I installed illiminable's oggcodecs instead of the CoreFlacDecoder... This evening I was able to use every option except for add metadata if not already present. When using that option, it crashed, had to restart it, then turn on WMPTSE again, deselect 'add metadata' option, restart (which causes a crash upon shutdown) and then everything is working fine.

I have every album now completely recognized and catalogued with album art and all. I am able to do anything within WMP as well MCE while playing flac audio. I am not able to add metadata, but not sure why I would need to at this point, since it is all there anyway?

In album mode, try this: with the album window open scroll down the album info, below the album art, and click on one of the album tracks. It plays the album but gives an error as well. If you are unable to reproduce it, I will send you the exact message. smile.gif
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MaB_fr
post Jan 26 2006, 05:59
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To help you a bit, you must know that WMP has a very conservative way of protecting himself from crash...

So, for example, if any directshow codec crash during playing, the next time, ALL plug-ins will be disable....

That's why you should'nt make the assumption that every crash from WMP is the result of WMPTSE behaviour (it may).

You must first understant where and when, WMPTSE acts.

If you check the "Auto-refresh on start", WMPTSE will launch a scan of all handled files (which means, files of the filetype registered for WMPTSE) on the launch of WMP. It may be a long process depending of the number of file "unhandled".

If you check the "Auto-refresh on add", WMPTSE will launch a scan of all handled files (...) on every change in the media library. It may also be correlate to the number of files.

Otherwise, WMPTSE will refresh the tag only when displaying it in Media Library file list...

If you check the "Allow auto-tagging on untagged files", WMPTSE will add is own "default" tag on a virgin file (untagged) and fill it with the data display in WMP.

If you check the "Add meta-tag if not present", WMPTSE will add tag for not present types. Like if one of your files has "AlbumArtist" but no "Title". With this option, WMPTSE will add the "Title" tag when it gets the data. Without, you can edit the title in WMP, but it will not be added IN THE FILE (yeah, it is subtle, but i found it necessary, it's a kind of "read-only" policy).
It's strange, but maybe the sign of the incompatibility between the 1.1.2 flac library and you 1.1.0 one...

I will try it myself soon.

MaB_fr

This post has been edited by MaB_fr: Jan 26 2006, 06:00
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jacktwist
post Jan 26 2006, 16:39
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Interesting. What is curious is this. All my files should be (since they are all listed and categorized) tagged properly. WMP crashes immediately after selecting the 'add meta-tag if not present'. I mean it goes down fast. Right after enabling the option, any thing else done in WMP causes a crash. I am also unable to use the 'advanced tag editor' at this point either. Maybe there is something that allows WMP to edit files properly that I am not catching in my settings?

I have now figured out the ripping/tagging method so I have all necessary tags present for WMP to process. So using the 'add meta-tag if not present' option isn't absolutely necessary. However, I am still not sure why I am unable to use the 'Advanced Tag Editor'. Could it be that these two options are tied together, so without the 'add meta-tag' selected, WMP cannot allow the editing of the flac files and opens them as read only?

Mind you, if there is a problem within WMP that is causing this crash behaviour, it is happening on two different systems using the same options in the WmPTSE Plugin. smile.gif
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MaB_fr
post Jan 26 2006, 17:50
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Hum...i already answered this in an adjacent forum...but that's my job to repeat it wink.gif

So,

ADVANCED Tag editing is an INTERNAL and un-extendable Windows media player 10 feature.

It is deeply implemented in the program, and as i doesn't want to "overload" the windows handler (we aren't in 1990...), it probably won't never figure as an WMPTSE possibility. It is tightly integrated to the ID3v2/WMA metadata handler of WMP10 and i think that MS would'nt appreciate that i reverse engineered this kind of part of their "media control central place" (it is legal in my country). In fact, wmppluginc.com has already refused to publish this plug-in and any link to it on their site (reason unknown, but i'm no paranoid, it should be because of the beta state).

Rest assured that i've tried any "correct" means i known to figure how to take control of Adv. Tagging, but i've failed...sad.gif

The "add meta-tag if not present" problem must be a bug, and i've just install foobar to try to eradicate it...

Thanks for the report, could you resume the solution you've found to your different problem (it may help me to support other MCE2005 users...)

MaB_fr

P.S. ok for the next post jacktwist [i don't think it needs another post smile.gif]

This post has been edited by MaB_fr: Jan 26 2006, 17:58
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jacktwist
post Jan 26 2006, 17:56
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My apologies MaB! I was under the impression that there were some users of WMPTSE who 'were' able to use the Advanced Tag Editor within WMP... Sorry for the misundrestanding. sad.gif smile.gif

I will write a method list of how I am converting my cd's into flac so I am able to use them within MCE2005. This may be a few days in the making since I have some other things I need to take care of first. I will also try to troubleshoot this further and remove any files I have created at an earlier time with a different method and see if the new one's alone cause the crash within WMP or if it is just a bug. Give me some time and I will narrow this down as much as possible on my end without looking at code which I am horrible at :0
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Carlton Bale
post Jan 26 2006, 19:47
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QUOTE (jacktwist @ Jan 26 2006, 11:56 AM)
I will write a method list of how I am converting my cd's into flac so I am able to use them within MCE2005.
*


I'm having problems with tags displaying but I need to play around with it some more. Anyway, here is the method I use to create FLAC files from CDs using EAC; maybe this is a starting point or reference to how you do it. Basically, EAC rips to wav and then calls FLAC to compress and tag via the command line . . .
http://www.carltonbale.com/projects/cd_audio_extraction/


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Carlton Bale
post Jan 27 2006, 00:46
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By the way, I uninstalled 9.9.0 and installed 9.9.1 and it works perfectly with my FLAC files! I did have to tell the plug-in to Auto-Refresh on start and Auto-Refresh on add. To do this, I started Windows Media Player, went to Tools menu -> Plug-ins -> Options, selected Background, selected WMPTagSupportExtender Plug-in, clicked Properties, and then finally checked the two auto-refresh boxes. I can now view and play all of my FLAC music through Windows Media Center. Thanks for a great plug-in!


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Greenbeast
post Jan 27 2006, 22:36
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something i've noticed is that WMP doesn't give me the length of flac files untill i play them.
its nothing major, just odd
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jacktwist
post Jan 28 2006, 02:48
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OK I did an experiment. I unloaded all my flac from the library and physically moved them to a drive not listed as a watch folder... I then reinstalled/repaired the WMPTSE installation. Started WMP/Loaded WMPTSE/Selected all options/restarted WMP/selected library and it crashed, calling an error to flactagsupport.dll... It does not allow the use of 'add meta-tags if missing'. And with this enabled, opening the library in WMP causes a crash, with or without files listed within the library. Any attempt by WMP to access the internet library features with the 'add meta-tags' option selected is met with a crash on my system(s). I found I was able to go between different screens in WMP with the 'add meta-tags' option selected, until I selected any album info and it tried to connect to the internet (which is suceeds in). Without the option enabled, it will go out and get information and load the flac audio mostly without issue, however, no information is written to the actual tags of the flac files. I verified this since I now have to go out and get album art and rename some files that WMP apparently changed before I removed them from the library. Meaning the data it previously retreived and stored was never actually written to the tags themselves. I do get random crashes in WMP with the plugin enabled and 'add meta-tags' option off. And the error message is always flactagsupport.dll.

This post has been edited by jacktwist: Jan 28 2006, 02:51
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MaB_fr
post Jan 28 2006, 18:15
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QUOTE (jacktwist @ Jan 28 2006, 02:48 AM)
OK I did an experiment. I unloaded all my flac from the library and physically moved them to a drive not listed as a watch folder... I then reinstalled/repaired the WMPTSE installation. Started WMP/Loaded WMPTSE/Selected all options/restarted WMP/selected library and it crashed, calling an error to flactagsupport.dll... It does not allow the use of 'add meta-tags if missing'. And with this enabled, opening the library in WMP causes a crash, with or without files listed within the library. Any attempt by WMP to access the internet library features with the 'add meta-tags' option selected is met with a crash on my system(s). I found I was able to go between different screens in WMP with the 'add meta-tags' option selected, until I selected any album info and it tried to connect to the internet (which is suceeds in). Without the option enabled, it will go out and get information and load the flac audio mostly without issue, however, no information is written to the actual tags of the flac files. I verified this since I now have to go out and get album art and rename some files that WMP apparently changed before I removed them from the library. Meaning the data it previously retreived and stored was never actually written to the tags themselves. I do get random crashes in WMP with the plugin enabled and 'add meta-tags' option off. And the error message is always flactagsupport.dll.
*


I thought i've already explain this....

QUOTE
If you check the "Add meta-tag if not present", WMPTSE will add tag for not present types. Like if one of your files has "AlbumArtist" but no "Title". With this option, WMPTSE will add the "Title" tag when it gets the data. Without, you can edit the title in WMP, but it will not be added IN THE FILE (yeah, it is subtle, but i found it necessary, it's a kind of "read-only" policy).


As you can read in the last sentence....if you check this box, tag modification inside wmp won't be written on disk, it means that ANY tag modification (including downloading info on the net) inside WMP is meaningless for the file itself (but of course, wmp displays it as modified correctly).

The rest is bug....just let me the time to found where and how to correct it.

MaB_fr

This post has been edited by MaB_fr: Jan 28 2006, 18:16
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danchr
post Jan 28 2006, 18:28
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Just wondering; do you have any plans to add support for MP4 tags as well?
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jacktwist
post Jan 29 2006, 05:40
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Thanks again MaB! Really appreciate your effort! Hope you find it smile.gif jt
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MaB_fr
post Jan 31 2006, 12:25
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QUOTE (danchr @ Jan 28 2006, 06:28 PM)
Just wondering; do you have any plans to add support for MP4 tags as well?
*

My MP4 policy is as such :
"find me a lib that extract the meta data with simple C API, i'll add MP4 support"

MaB_fr
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MaB_fr
post Feb 4 2006, 19:26
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Just published 0.9.9.2

The FLAC support is totally repaired and compliant with FLAC library Level 1 Metadata API.

http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/wmptage....2.msi?download

Enjoy & report

We are slowly approaching 1.0 release smile.gif

In the news department, i found a really good doc on MP4 tagging...it may or may not be part of 1.0 (read-only probably)

MaB_fr

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jacktwist
post Feb 5 2006, 23:27
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Thanks MaB!!! I believe things are working well for me. I will continue my testing but so far so good! smile.gif beer.gif
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cvp
post Feb 9 2006, 02:28
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QUOTE (MaB_fr @ Feb 4 2006, 02:26 PM)
Just published 0.9.9.2

The FLAC support is totally repaired and compliant with FLAC library Level 1 Metadata API.

http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/wmptage....2.msi?download

Enjoy & report


MaB_fr
*


MaB, I'm puzzled by the behaviour of the tagging.

I have used several .wma files which I converted to .flac using dBpoweramp which attempts to "preserve ID tags". This it seems to do by keeping the WMA/ tags, but not all of them: in particular it seems to lose WMA/Composer tags after the first one as well as some critical secondary ones. Not your fault I know!

However, then I import the files into WMP using "search for files". Initially this shows up under the same artist but as a different (but same name) album as the .wma files with, for example, the Composer field blank and Media Info= "Not Found". So I guess you aren't picking up the WMA/ tags. Shame, but I understand.

Then, after "Find Album Info" the fields in WMP are correctly populated with, for example, each of multiple composers and media info = "Found". At this stage there appear to be 3 copies of the tag info at the start of the file, including WMA/ tags and the ones you retrieved, but no sign of composers after the first.

If I now "delete" the files from the WMP Library and then re-import them, the artist and album correctly position the tracks, and only the first composer is populated (I guess that's because it's the only one in the tags and the field exists) and the Media Info stays at "Not Found"

I hope that's clear enough to reproduce.
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grommet
post Feb 9 2006, 03:58
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WMA metadata is unique in that it supports multiple names for Artist, Composer, etc. (WMP 10 supports this.) They are stored as separate entries, instead of a single metadata entry with delimeters between the names. In general, support is rare and most programs just pay attention to the first entry. This is probably what you are seeing and why you lose information.

(FYI: For MP3, WMP 10 stores mutliple names in metadata fields with "/" as a delimeter... which is in the ID3v2 pseudo-standard.)

I'm not sure if WMPTSE handles multiple names correctly... or if all the tagging formats allow it.

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MaB_fr
post Feb 9 2006, 04:12
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QUOTE (grommet @ Feb 9 2006, 03:58 AM)
WMA metadata is unique in that it supports multiple names for Artist, Composer, etc.  (WMP 10 supports this.)  They are stored as separate entries, instead of a single metadata entry with delimeters between the names.  In general, support is rare and most programs just pay attention to the first entry.  This is probably what you are seeing and why you lose information.

(FYI: For MP3, WMP 10 stores mutliple names in metadata fields with "/" as a delimeter... which is in the ID3v2 pseudo-standard.)

I'm not sure if WMPTSE handles multiple names correctly... or if all the tagging formats allow it.
*


grommet is correct. And WMPTSE doesn't handle it right now.

It is an on-going feature and won't be supported when tagging standard doesn't. I'm considering "bridging" the 'separator' policy with the 'mutlitag' policy, but it may end up in confusing users.

I am a bit puzzled on this specific question for the moment.

For the rest, i am not sure to understand...

Are you talking about modifiying tags in WMP after retagging in dbPowerAmp and inserting them in MediaLibrary or are talking about something else ?

MaB_fr

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cvp
post Feb 9 2006, 06:26
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QUOTE (grommet @ Feb 8 2006, 10:58 PM)
WMA metadata is unique in that it supports multiple names for Artist, Composer, etc.  (WMP 10 supports this.)  They are stored as separate entries, instead of a single metadata entry with delimeters between the names.  In general, support is rare and most programs just pay attention to the first entry.  This is probably what you are seeing and why you lose information.
*


Thanks for info grommet. It might be OK for a particular program to ignore any after the first, but it's not OK for me to lose this info in my data base (as long as there's at least one program that does support them). In my case the two that I'm most interested in (WMP and Slimserver) both do. Now if only Squeezebox would support WMA lossless natively, I'd be fine with WMP tagging and WMA lossless.
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