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ripping tracks hidden at start of cd's
landy
post Sep 21 2005, 18:01
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never noticed this before but my HL-DT-STDVDRAM GSA-4120B does not seem to be able to rip tracks hidden at the start of cd's (was trying to rip this) anyone know if using image mode in eac gets around it?

i have been after a new drive though so this just gives me another reason to get one but the question is will my planned replacement (GSA-4167B) see tracks hidden at the start of a cd or should i look for another drive?
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MJT
post Sep 21 2005, 18:56
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If that drive can read into lead-in, then yes, it should be able to rip the hidden track. See this thread, about halfway through. By the way, apparently, the drive Synthetic Soul ended up getting to be able to rip hidden tracks is the PXW5224TA. (I was never able to find a legit reference to a PXW5224A).

edit: rip, not drip. doh!

This post has been edited by MJT: Sep 21 2005, 22:05
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landy
post Sep 21 2005, 19:36
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hmm according to this my drive (6th on the list) can read the lead in and im using the same firmware version as the people who reported those features. could it be bad settings in eac or caused by the fact i use a sample offset?
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fj4
post Sep 21 2005, 21:01
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You want to have read offsets on and configured correctly. You should be able to extract using "Copy Range". Just set the start position at the beginning of the pregap ("Relative Timepos" should show a negative time) and the end at approximately 00:00.00. I wasn't able to get "Snap Gap" to work correctly for this even after detecting the gaps.
I had to do this for Autechre's EP7 and it worked on my Plextor PX-W2410A.
Good luck!
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Martin H
post Sep 22 2005, 05:04
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I don't think that a drive that can overread into the "lead-in"(actually track 1's pre-gap), is needed for extracting hidden tracks(in the pre-gap of track 1)... Normally hidden tracks in the pre-gap of track 1, is located after the first 2 seconds of track 1's pre-gap(the first 2 seconds cannot be played in a CD player). When a drive can overread into the pre-gap of track 1, that means that the drive can read a portion into the first 2 seconds of the pre-gap of track 1... I don't know why some people only get silence when they are extracting that part of a CD, but i don't think that it's an overreading issue(since no overreading is occuring)...

-Martin.
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Synthetic Soul
post Sep 22 2005, 10:35
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Before I got my PXW5224A (I'm pretty sure that's what it is listed as on my PC!) neither of my drives (Toshiba MD1502? and LiteOn SOHW-832S) could rip CDs with a hidden track on INDEX 0 of TRACK 1.

They wouldn't get silence - but EAC would just not rip the disc. It would hang for a while and then say thay it couldn't find a suitable drive read command - even though the DRC worked for all other discs, and other DRCs didn't work either.

The drive here at work, a Samsung SD-616E, has ripped a disc with an INDEX 0 TRACK 1 track - Bloc Party's Silent Alarm - but the hidden track was silence.

I would like someone to finally state why some drives can and others can't rip these CDs, as this has come up a good few times.

Here's a couple of my other posts on the subject. (01) (02). You will also find a few more if you search for "Stoosh", and/or "Stoneage"

Edit: It may be worth seeing whether you have "Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out" checked, on the "Offset / Speed" tab of the Drive Options dialogue (F10). I have no idea whether reading TRACK 1 INDEX 0 songs is related to lead-in or not - but I think it's worth a try. Neither of my other drives (the Plextor replaced the Samsung, I still have the LiteOn) could read lead-in and they couldn't rip these songs - my Plextor can, and it can rip these songs. Dunno.

Edit 2: Oh, and I rip to image files, and I don't rip ranges. Ripping a range on these discs wouldn't work for me either with my old drives. Before I got my Plextor I just used foobar to rip the discs, and simply lost the hidden track. I have since reripped them all for my archive.

This post has been edited by Synthetic Soul: Sep 22 2005, 10:52


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NeoRenegade
post Sep 26 2005, 04:20
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I'm wondering, is there anywhere where we can find a comprehensive list of all CD's people have found to have tracks hidden in this way?
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Societal Eclipse
post Sep 26 2005, 09:18
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I have one, Melotron - Weltfrieden and I still haven't gotten a chance to rip it. mad.gif

[edit]
Just to clarify my NEC drives will let me copy the range but it comes up as completely silent audio in the pre-gap of track 1.

This post has been edited by Societal Eclipse: Sep 26 2005, 09:19


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Synthetic Soul
post Sep 26 2005, 09:19
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We could make one.

CODE
==============================================
Artist                  |  Album
==============================================
Bloc Party              |  Silent Alarm
Skunk Anansie           |  Stoosh
Queens of the Stoneage  |  Songs for the Deaf
Lemon Jelly             |  '64 - '95
Muse                    |  Hullabaloo (Disc 2)
==============================================


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MJT
post Sep 26 2005, 18:05
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Here's an unconfirmed list I got via a quick scan of Wikipedia's "Albums with hidden tracks" category:

Lit - A Place in the Sun
Autechre - EP7
They Might Be Giants - Factory Showroom
Super Furry Animals - Guerrilla
Kylie Minogue - Light Years
Super Furry Animals - Out Spaced
Queens of the Stone Age - Songs for the Deaf
Various - Songs in the Key of X
Blind Melon - Soup
311 - Transistor
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jaybeee
post Sep 26 2005, 18:46
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2 Many DJ's - As Heard On Radio Soulwax Pt. 2 is another. I've not been able to get that track... although I haven't tried very hard tbh.


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bug80
post Sep 27 2005, 11:02
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QUOTE (jaybeee @ Sep 26 2005, 07:46 PM)
2 Many DJ's - As Heard On Radio Soulwax Pt. 2 is another.  I've not been able to get that track... although I haven't tried very hard tbh.
*

The Soulwax albums "Much against everyones advice" and "Any minute now" have a hidden track 0 also.
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blue57
post Sep 27 2005, 14:14
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{Miocene} - Cellular Memory

I wonder what technology/techniques these manufacturers have to do such trickery..
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SJW
post Nov 19 2005, 16:51
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I wonder if you could advise me whether the PX-230A can detect/read hidden tracks?

Thanks in anticipation.

edit: link updated, other was based on session cookies, which timed-out unsure.gif

This post has been edited by SJW: Nov 19 2005, 21:14
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Drenholm
post Nov 20 2005, 13:31
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sidjames
post Dec 1 2005, 18:48
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i had lots of fun trying to rip the queens of the stone age cd using my lg dvd-rom unit - no luck though - ive found two others for your list though;

Ash - 1977 [infect40cd]
Blur - Think Tank [emi 07243-582997-2-4]

- the blur one is particularly annoying as the hidden track is better than pretty much anything else on it... sad.gif

if anyone has any recommendations for a new drive (plextor?) im all ears - it seems daft buying a new drive just for the sake of 3 cds (3 tracks even!) but why not....
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Synthetic Soul
post Dec 1 2005, 18:52
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I'm well pleased with my Plextor PX-W5224A. 23 from eBay.

For a list of some other drives that can successfully rip these tracks check this thread.


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sidjames
post Dec 2 2005, 11:25
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QUOTE (Synthetic Soul @ Dec 1 2005, 11:52 AM)
I'm well pleased with my Plextor PX-W5224A.  23 from eBay.

For a list of some other drives that can successfully rip these tracks check this thread.
*


cheers synthetic soul - thanks for the tip about the PX-W5224A (and the tip about ebay) - just got one for 20 - just hope it works now! cheers, sid
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Synthetic Soul
post Dec 2 2005, 11:38
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I'm sure you'll be pleased. 20 - can't complain.

I thought you must be a brit from that album lineup. smile.gif

When I bought mine the buyer was selling three at the same time. I am happy with the 23 (inc. P&P) - but one of the buyers lucked out and got theirs for around 10! sad.gif


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sidewalking
post Feb 9 2008, 06:18
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Sister Machine Gun - Burn

Hidden track prior to the start of track 1 is a cover of The Doors' "Strange Days". It rocks!
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TuNk77
post Feb 9 2008, 09:23
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When i rip a CD with a hidden first track, i select "append gaps to next track" in EAC. If that don't work for you, you can do a range rip in EAC
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Rasi
post Feb 9 2008, 09:52
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Hmm.. just tried my CD of Queens Of The Stoneage - Songs For The Deaf in my regular CD-Player and tried seeking backwards in 1st track... no pregap there it seems...
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Synthetic Soul
post Feb 9 2008, 11:24
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Maybe your CD player just isn't up to it. If you have EAC installed throw the CD in your PC and detect the gaps to see if it exists there.


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a3aan
post Feb 9 2008, 13:07
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QUOTE (NeoRenegade @ Sep 26 2005, 04:20) *
I'm wondering, is there anywhere where we can find a comprehensive list of all CD's people have found to have tracks hidden in this way?

I wouldn't say it is comprehensive, but there is http://hiddensongs.com/.

The rate of new listings is low but we could change that wink.gif
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